Has a date been set in which members who have not completed OPSEC will be grounded and/or blocked from ES participation?
A link to an ICL or other letter would be great.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 10, 2008, 02:29:11 AM
Has a date been set in which members who have not completed OPSEC will be grounded and/or blocked from ES participation?
A link to an ICL or other letter would be great.
I don't recall if the letter states that, and no I don't have a link sorry.
However, thats not the point... members who are participating in ES without OPSEC have no business being involved with ES in the first place so get them out and CYA first. I'll bet if something goes wrong and they see that a member or two are not OPSEC trained you can betcha they will deny insurance coverage for that incident.
All I know is that any members who have no OPSEC training will not be able to register for eServices or have access to it (if they already registered beforehand) after April 1st.
There was a letter from the National Commander to the National Board dated 3 December 2007 that states:
This memo provides updated instructions for personnel implementing this policy until such time as it can be incorporated into CAPR 60-3. All members must complete OPSEC training and agree to the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) by 1 April 2008 or they will not be allowed access to eServices, the Web Mission Information Reporting System (WMIRS), or any other CAP system that requires a unique login and password. Specifically this means:
a. Commanders or their designees will not be allowed to input new emergency services specialty qualifications, renew expiring qualifications, or print new CAPF 101s in Operations Qualifications until the member has completed OPSEC and agreed to the NDA.
The draft CAPR 60-3 states in several places that to remain ES qualified OPSEC has to be completed by 1 April 2008 or 30 March 2008.
Mike
Hmm April 1st April fools day :D
They should have picked another day instead of that day since security is no joke.
Guys, I don't want to bore you with details. But, any member who hasn't taken OPSEC yet shouldn't be able to access eservices now. They should be redirected to the OPSEC on-line course automatically. If this isn't happening, something is wrong with the system.
Quote from: FW on March 10, 2008, 03:03:57 AM
Guys, I don't want to bore you with details. But, any member who hasn't taken OPSEC yet shouldn't be able to access eservices now. They should be redirected to the OPSEC on-line course automatically. If this isn't happening, something is wrong with the system.
Where do you get something is wrong with the system? Members have until 1 April 2008 to complete OPSEC. Until then there is nothing stopping them from accessing eServices.
Quote from: brasda91 on March 10, 2008, 03:11:06 AM
Quote from: FW on March 10, 2008, 03:03:57 AM
Guys, I don't want to bore you with details. But, any member who hasn't taken OPSEC yet shouldn't be able to access eservices now. They should be redirected to the OPSEC on-line course automatically. If this isn't happening, something is wrong with the system.
Where do you get something is wrong with the system? Members have until 1 April 2008 to complete OPSEC. Until then there is nothing stopping them from accessing eServices.
There can't be anything wrong with the system if it isn't being officially enforced, it begins to be enforced on April 1st so until then its not a problem :P
OK, let me shape the issue for you, I have already addressed this up the chain, and they acknowledge "its a problem". I was hoping for a clear "though shalt not" from NHQ, which to date has not happened.
Pilots who do an F5/91 on the 31st of March, could continue flying for about a year without eServices or WMIRS access. And for states not using the WMU, blocking eServices means very little.
The issue is that there are very specific rules about grounding pilots, and OPSEC is not one of them (yet), unless its in the new 60-1 (which I have not had time to read in detail.
For some members, especially those less active than others, yanking flight status is the only way to get their attention, and without that stick, won't even respond to emails.
I agree on the idea that no one who is not OPSEC should be involved in mission work, but if the rules say otherwise, its hard to stamp your feet.
I need more than just "no eservices".
Quote from: Eclipse on March 10, 2008, 04:05:09 AM
OK, let me shape the issue for you, I have already addressed this up the chain, and they acknowledge "its a problem". I was hoping for a clear "though shalt not" from NHQ, which to date has not happened.
Pilots who do an F5/91 on the 31st of March, could continue flying for about a year without eServices or WMIRS access. And for states not using the WMU, blocking eServices means very little.
The issue is that there are very specific rules about grounding pilots, and OPSEC is not one of them (yet), unless its in the new 60-1 (which I have not had time to read in detail.
For some members, especially those less active than others, yanking flight status is the only way to get their attention, and without that stick, won't even respond to emails.
I agree on the idea that no one who is not OPSEC should be involved in mission work, but if the rules say otherwise, its hard to stamp your feet.
I need more than just "no eservices".
I'd say that's a commander's perrogative there. Since OPSEC is
required of all members, their non-compliance would give you reason to ground them, regardless of what happens to the utilities online they get to access. A simple policy letter from your desk saying "any pilot who is non-compliant will be grounded until they get it together" would get a lot of people's attention.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 10, 2008, 04:05:09 AM
Pilots who do an F5/91 on the 31st of March, could continue flying for about a year without eServices or WMIRS access. And for states not using the WMU, blocking eServices means very little.
The draft 60-3 states they will not be ES qualified after 31 Mar 08. MP and TMP are ES ratings so they would lose them without OPSEC. That is the end of flying on SARs, SAREXs, CDs, etc.
Can people fly CAP planes without a MP or TMP rating (to include trainee status)?
Quote from: Short Field on March 10, 2008, 05:44:33 AM
Can people fly CAP planes without a MP or TMP rating (to include trainee status)?
Yes. Orientation Fights, for example.
Quote from: arajca on March 10, 2008, 05:50:31 AM
Quote from: Short Field on March 10, 2008, 05:44:33 AM
Can people fly CAP planes without a MP or TMP rating (to include trainee status)?
Yes. Orientation Fights, for example.
But flying orientation flights requires access to WMIRS, since you have to load your sorties in w/ the cadet's CAPIDs post-flight. ;D
Couldn't you be just a plain 'ol "pilot", with full access to non-mission activities?
There are way too many of our pilots who do nothing more than a Form 5 and never get mission rated, and they are happy that way.
And how about glider and tow pilots?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 10, 2008, 04:05:09 AM
OK, let me shape the issue for you, I have already addressed this up the chain, and they acknowledge "its a problem". I was hoping for a clear "though shalt not" from NHQ, which to date has not happened.
Pilots who do an F5/91 on the 31st of March, could continue flying for about a year without eServices or WMIRS access. And for states not using the WMU, blocking eServices means very little.
The issue is that there are very specific rules about grounding pilots, and OPSEC is not one of them (yet), unless its in the new 60-1 (which I have not had time to read in detail.
For some members, especially those less active than others, yanking flight status is the only way to get their attention, and without that stick, won't even respond to emails.
I agree on the idea that no one who is not OPSEC should be involved in mission work, but if the rules say otherwise, its hard to stamp your feet.
I need more than just "no eservices".
Dont you have to complete Level I before you can fly? Isn't OPSEC a requirement for Level I?
Quote from: stillamarine on March 10, 2008, 04:10:36 PM
Dont you have to complete Level I before you can fly? Isn't OPSEC a requirement for Level I?
Yes, but that means little to seasoned pilots that completed L1 10 years ago.
Quote from: FW on March 10, 2008, 03:03:57 AM
But, any member who hasn't taken OPSEC yet shouldn't be able to access eservices now. They should be redirected to the OPSEC on-line course automatically. If this isn't happening, something is wrong with the system.
Outstanding point, I hope someone at NHQ sees this and finds a way
to make it happen.
And c'mon people, this is a requirement that does not involve a test.
Read the info, watch the video if you want, and click to agree to the NDA,
there isnt much if anything in there you haven't already agreed to adhere
to when you joined.
What's the real problem here/reason for the question? Just get it done already.
Pilots who are fully qual'ed, don't need access to eServices, and don't fly missions.
Without a big stick "knock it off", and/or a rev to 60-3, I don't see how we can yank their flight privileges.
Again, so what is the problem that they aren't getting this taken care of?
It's not as though we're asking them to club defenseless baby seals or something. It takes a few minutes and provided a person can fog a mirror, they will "pass" it. If someone isn't getting this taken care of then perhaps larger questions as to their motivation and commitment need to be asked.
Simple solution: Get it taken care of and you don't need to worry about the "what if's".
Also be advised that if you accidentally hit the "Do not Agree" button instead of the "back" arrow on your browser, it locks you out of the OPSEC module for 30 days and sends all kinds of automated nasty grams to your unit and group commanders.
One of my cadets did it accidentally because he wanted to go back to the previous screens and look at the material one more time. From the alarms raised one would have thought he had tried to steal a CAP plane or something...
Quote from: Eclipse on March 11, 2008, 03:04:15 AM
Pilots who are fully qual'ed, don't need access to eServices, and don't fly missions.
Without a big stick "knock it off", and/or a rev to 60-3, I don't see how we can yank their flight privileges.
They do if they want to update things like their Flight Review date, medical date/class, date of last form 5, and if they qual in additional aircraft, they need to enter that, too.
Quote from: SJFedor on March 11, 2008, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 11, 2008, 03:04:15 AM
Pilots who are fully qual'ed, don't need access to eServices, and don't fly missions.
Without a big stick "knock it off", and/or a rev to 60-3, I don't see how we can yank their flight privileges.
They do if they want to update things like their Flight Review date, medical date/class, date of last form 5, and if they qual in additional aircraft, they need to enter that, too.
Yes, the issue is not what happens once they need updates, changes, or re-quals, the issue is what you do with them until that time.
Once the doors are locked, the clock will be ticking on their ability to fly, however it will have no impact on non-flight ES operations for wings that do not use eServices for their ES qualifications.