Well the NB just ended and they approved the Achievement Award. How long do you think it will take Vanguard to get it to market. The last ones to be approved (IC Badge and DDR Badge) took about seven months. I see this award being used alot in the coming years.
^ It was most likely a Vanguard Idea to generate money. They can't fool us! I would imagine they have 10,000 already produced......
Quote from: caphistorian on March 02, 2008, 08:57:31 PM
Well the NB just ended and they approved the Achievement Award.
What's this new award?
I know the group that initiated the idea and it wasnt Vanguard (though they may have sent subliminal messages). They design for it wasnt done until the day before the presentation and I would hate for any of them to read my mind.
What is the process for designing CAP awards, ribbons and medals?
But what does one get it for?
One of the first things I do is look at how the miliatry has one designed for a specific task or accomplishment. Then I look and see how it may apply to us. We are a Humanitarian Organization and most of these awards are round. In looking at the services nonoe f them have words for their achievement awards. I then think about what the award is supposed to symbolize ie achievement, honor, service. I think about colors that represent some of these terms. People generallyy associate Kahki with the AAC of WWII and the Dark Blue for our current AF Uniform. The light blue for the air. It is a visualization thing for me.
I have been fortunate in that most of my submissions have been approved and used.
Quote from: Stonewall on March 02, 2008, 09:13:19 PM
But what does one get it for?
That is the thing about this award. It will be the Commanders Discretion to decide. I kind of look at it as a ribbon in place of a Certificate of Appreciation.
When you say "commander" do you mean squadron commander?
Just one thought: Is round the proper shape for an achievement medal?
Service medals are usually round. Commendations are hexagonal, right? So what should this really be?
Just asking.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2008, 12:21:57 AM
Just one thought: Is round the proper shape for an achievement medal?
Service medals are usually round. Commendations are hexagonal, right? So what should this really be?
Just asking.
The AF Commendation and the AF Achievement medals are both hexagonal.
Ours is round:
(http://www.thehock.com/5513.jpg)
Army:
(http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/medals/armcommed.jpg)
USAF:
(http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/medals/afcommed_front.jpg)
In fact every CAP medal with the except of the ESA and MSA are round.
Quote from: PHall on March 03, 2008, 12:27:38 AM
The AF Commendation and the AF Achievement medals are both hexagonal.
(http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/medals/afam.jpg)
Here's the Navy Commendation:
(http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/medals/nmccm.jpg)
I stand corrected on the AF Achievement Medal shape.
(And I have been awarded one too! ::)) (Where's that D'oh smiley?)
It's for achievements less than a Commanders Commendation, that can be awarded at a level less than the Wing Commander for Wings with Groups.
As a Group Commander, I plan on utilizing this award frequently, giving more weight to deserving accomplishments than the Certificate of Appreciation. Plus, it will push the Commanders Commendation a bit higher in the process.
So, this has been approved by the National Board, can we start awarding it immediately? (And wait for the ribbon which will, certainly, take some time to appear).
Dr. Dave
Now that this ribbon and mini medal are approved...
Will we finally see an Eaker Award mini medal? And will it be round, too?
(Laughing at that last question...)
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2008, 03:30:42 AM
Now that this ribbon and mini medal are approved...
Will we finally see an Eaker Award mini medal? And will it be round, too?
(Laughing at that last question...)
From what I recall based on postings here and on a few other forums, an Eaker mini has been "proposed", "promised", "will be available shortly" several times in the last decade or so. As of yet, it has still to materialize.
Quote from: Stonewall on March 02, 2008, 09:13:19 PM
But what does one get it for?
I don't know what the official wording for the award is but I was at the SLS and CLC where this was originally brought up that led to the proposal. The idea was to mirror the achievement awards in the military. As noted by many people, the commander's commendation is awarded often for actions that might not be considered by many as being at a level that warrants the comcom. This award fills the space for an award for those that do good things but the things may not be at a level deserving a comcom.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2008, 12:21:57 AM
Just one thought: Is round the proper shape for an achievement medal?
Service medals are usually round. Commendations are hexagonal, right? So what should this really be?
Just asking.
Service medals are, in fact, round.
Decorations are other than round: Reference MOH, Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Service Specific Commendation medals, etc. If this award is going to be a decoration, it should NOT be round.
GC
I think this is a good idea, let us hope it is not abused.
Quote from: Pylon on March 02, 2008, 09:10:06 PM
What is the process for designing CAP awards, ribbons and medals?
How are CAP awards, ribbons and medals designed? Are multiple designs allowed to be submitted for consideration? Is it one person who designs them? Who is the committee in charge of placing the recommended design before the NB? Are the designs checked with the AF Heraldry institute or any other military heraldry organization?
I'm curious how this works.
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 03, 2008, 04:47:57 AM
As noted by many people, the commander's commendation is awarded often for actions that might not be considered by many as being at a level that warrants the comcom. This award fills the space for an award for those that do good things but the things may not be at a level deserving a comcom.
I hope they clearly delineate acceptable actions that merit this award, and further clarify the others. I've seen cadets awarded Meritorious Service for being on a color guard at a home school convention, and other folks turned down for Commanders Commendations who did things that were well deserving of it (large scale impact, well above and beyond others of like rank and responsibility, etc.).
I second that.
Quote from: Captain B on March 03, 2008, 11:30:26 AMI hope they clearly delineate acceptable actions that merit this award, and further clarify the others. I've seen cadets awarded Meritorious Service for being on a color guard at a home school convention, and other folks turned down for Commanders Commendations who did things that were well deserving of it (large scale impact, well above and beyond others of like rank and responsibility, etc.).
I'm glad someone mentioned this. I've seen this very thing before. There has to be some sort of political statement in cadets earning a MSA or ESA to begin with. But it's entirely possible that part of the problem is that the criteria for the awards isn't spelled out exactingly enough.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 04, 2008, 01:30:13 AM
Quote from: Captain B on March 03, 2008, 11:30:26 AMI hope they clearly delineate acceptable actions that merit this award, and further clarify the others. I've seen cadets awarded Meritorious Service for being on a color guard at a home school convention, and other folks turned down for Commanders Commendations who did things that were well deserving of it (large scale impact, well above and beyond others of like rank and responsibility, etc.).
I'm glad someone mentioned this. I've seen this very thing before. There has to be some sort of political statement in cadets earning a MSA or ESA to begin with. But it's entirely possible that part of the problem is that the criteria for the awards isn't spelled out exactingly enough.
OK. Here's my take... having served on a Wing Awards board for many years.
Political statement for cadets getting an MSA or ESA to begin with? Cadets are eligible to earn those awards just as much as any senior. And, an MSA has nothing to do with the scale or level of anything. The CCA and MSA are for the performance of the individual. Not the level or scale of what the performance is for.
ESA and DSA are another story. These specifically provide for a level which the service is for. (ESA should be for Wing or higher, and DSA is for National service.)
The biggest problem I have seen is how people write up awards. Most awards that get turned down have little to do with how deserving the person is. It has to do with a poor writeup. I have received recommendations that are two pages long that are full of glowing statements about the person and how super their duty performance is. But, when you eliminate all of the adjectives from the narrative, you end up with the person's name, and that they were involved with an activity. No facts. No numbers. No comparison. Nothing objective. Just subjective statements are present.
I have seen a few MSAs go through for a cadet's performance with a small activity on the local level go through. But, the facts provided met the criteria as outlined in the regulation. I have seen CCA recommendations rejected for service on a great activity on the Wing or Region level. But, the rejected narrative had nothing but statements like "outstanding," "excellent" and "superb" which in the end, don't convey anything but someone's opinion.
What will be interesting is how the new Achievement ribbon fits in to all of this. How subjective will it be? How objective? Or, will there be no submission process and it will be based on the commander's desire to award?
All I can provide is concrete facts. A Commander's Commendation was turned down for something that had facts, figures, statistics, metrics, benchmarks, etc. that involved coordination, planning, achievement and leadership well above individuals of like rank and responsibility.
On the other hand, a Meritorious Service Award was approved for two of my cadets simply for serving on a color guard at a non-CAP event.
This isn't the only story like this... My point is that there need to be more concrete criteria. Otherwise, things will be at the subjective (often political) whim of the board.
Speaking of awards, whatever happened to the CAP Homeland Security Ribbon discussed a couple of years ago?
Quote from: O-Rex on March 05, 2008, 05:05:28 AM
Speaking of awards, whatever happened to the CAP Homeland Security Ribbon discussed a couple of years ago?
It was presented to the board and shot down at the same time. That was in April of 2007.
Quote from: caphistorian on March 05, 2008, 06:53:34 AM
Quote from: O-Rex on March 05, 2008, 05:05:28 AM
Speaking of awards, whatever happened to the CAP Homeland Security Ribbon discussed a couple of years ago?
It was presented to the board and shot down at the same time. That was in April of 2007.
Are you sure about this? I've been wondering about this as we likely have some members in the wing that would be eligible for this soon.
Item 17.h. from the Mar '06 National Board shows that the HLS award was approved.
11.8.d. from the Mar '07 NB was an attempt to create a Border Patrol award (or to roll that into the HLS award), and that was defeated.
Unless something didn't make it into the NB minutes?
Quote from: ctrossen on March 05, 2008, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: caphistorian on March 05, 2008, 06:53:34 AM
Quote from: O-Rex on March 05, 2008, 05:05:28 AM
Speaking of awards, whatever happened to the CAP Homeland Security Ribbon discussed a couple of years ago?
It was presented to the board and shot down at the same time. That was in April of 2007.
Are you sure about this? I've been wondering about this as we likely have some members in the wing that would be eligible for this soon.
Item 17.h. from the Mar '06 National Board shows that the HLS award was approved.
11.8.d. from the Mar '07 NB was an attempt to create a Border Patrol award (or to roll that into the HLS award), and that was defeated.
Unless something didn't make it into the NB minutes?
This is what was passed on to me from someone at NHQ. The idea and concept was approved and sent to the awards proposal committee. After it was researched and studied it was truned down because their were other awards that could be used for the same thing. I admit that this sounds strange but it hasnt been talked about since. As with anything else that is subject to change.
The Homeland Security Ribbon I have been informed has been approved and will probably go before the Counter Drug Ribbon. I do not have much more info. I have not seen a design or specific criteria. Stay tuned for more information.....
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 03, 2008, 04:10:55 AM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2008, 03:30:42 AM
Now that this ribbon and mini medal are approved...
Will we finally see an Eaker Award mini medal? And will it be round, too?
(Laughing at that last question...)
From what I recall based on postings here and on a few other forums, an Eaker mini has been "proposed", "promised", "will be available shortly" several times in the last decade or so. As of yet, it has still to materialize.
Riiight, so they've decided to create yet another ribbon/medal with no definitive qualification criteria instead. A "let's round out your ribbon rack" ribbon. Nice.
How difficult is it to create an Eaker medal anyway? The ribbon colors are there, the medal itself isn't that complicated. "Civil Air Patrol" across the top, "Ira C Eaker" across the bottom, and either the image of him or an etch of two diamonds in the middle. Done...next?
Quote from: Psicorp on June 09, 2008, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 03, 2008, 04:10:55 AM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 03, 2008, 03:30:42 AM
Now that this ribbon and mini medal are approved...
Will we finally see an Eaker Award mini medal? And will it be round, too?
(Laughing at that last question...)
From what I recall based on postings here and on a few other forums, an Eaker mini has been "proposed", "promised", "will be available shortly" several times in the last decade or so. As of yet, it has still to materialize.
Riiight, so they've decided to create yet another ribbon/medal with no definitive qualification criteria instead. A "let's round out your ribbon rack" ribbon. Nice.
How difficult is it to create an Eaker medal anyway? The ribbon colors are there, the medal itself isn't that complicated. "Civil Air Patrol" across the top, "Ira C Eaker" across the bottom, and either the image of him or an etch of two diamonds in the middle. Done...next?
That's a bit insensative, don't you think, disrespecting the decoration to the guy who designed it.
One:
I don't like all of our medal being MINI - I want some full sized ones
Two: Can we do something other then Round and with a word "Membership", "Leadership" "Coffee making"
with our awards.
The above issues are two of the reasons why I dont wear Mess Dress.
Sidebar: Why the heck cant we get the USAF to approve the CAP the recieve real USAF/DOD medals/ribbons/achievments ?
I would rather have 1 "real" USAF piece then twenty CAP mini-medals
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 10, 2008, 12:14:50 AM
One:
I don't like all of our medal being MINI - I want some full sized ones
Two: Can we do something other then Round and with a word "Membership", "Leadership" "Coffee making"
with our awards.
The above issues are two of the reasons why I dont wear Mess Dress.
Sidebar: Why the heck cant we get the USAF to approve the CAP the recieve real USAF/DOD medals/ribbons/achievments ?
I would rather have 1 "real" USAF piece then twenty CAP mini-medals
Okay... I'll give you the phone number to a local USAF recruiter.
I am a former AFROTC scholarship cadet,
I was shown the door when my medical waiver was revoked.
I've tried to get back via both officer and enlisted channels
to any service that would take me. Army, AF, etc...
Believe me if it was as easy as calling the local recruiter, I'd have commissioned in 2006 and would already have pinned on first john.
---
I will repeat, i would rather wear one USAF item then twenty CAP mini-medals
Quote from: Major Carrales on June 09, 2008, 11:37:27 PM
That's a bit insensative, don't you think, disrespecting the decoration to the guy who designed it.
No disrespect intended towards the designer of the ribbon, sir. I actually think it's a rather spiffy looking ribbon. I just think a ribbon should have more significance than a substitute/replacement for a certificate of appreciation.
If the ribbon were to be for something like for recognition X number of hours participated in the Volunteer Support to the Air Force program, that would be different (and I think more fitting to the ribbon's colors).
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 10, 2008, 12:14:50 AM
One:
I don't like all of our medal being MINI - I want some full sized ones
Two: Can we do something other then Round and with a word "Membership", "Leadership" "Coffee making"
with our awards.
The above issues are two of the reasons why I dont wear Mess Dress.
Sidebar: Why the heck cant we get the USAF to approve the CAP the recieve real USAF/DOD medals/ribbons/achievments ?
I would rather have 1 "real" USAF piece then twenty CAP mini-medals
1. Why? We have three. How many more do you need?
2. Why?
3. That just reeks of wannabeism. I'm sorry your military career didn't pan out. Life sucks. But CAP isn't the Air Force, it isn't the 'unpaid Air Force Reserve,' it isn't the military. If you have such a need for military bling............
Not even the Air Force wears full sized medals on mess dress.
^ Ya.....but military awards were at one time standard issue to CAP members. The option to give military awards and civilian awards to CAP members are on the books, but no one is going after them.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 10, 2008, 12:45:30 AM
I am a former AFROTC scholarship cadet,
I was shown the door when my medical waiver was revoked.
I've tried to get back via both officer and enlisted channels
to any service that would take me. Army, AF, etc...
Believe me if it was as easy as calling the local recruiter, I'd have commissioned in 2006 and would already have pinned on first john.
---
I will repeat, i would rather wear one USAF item then twenty CAP mini-medals
Well, where would you wear a full sized medal? What uniform combination do you wear that with?
The mini medal is for wear on mess dress plus, IIRC, you can wear one mini medal on the blazer for formal events.
We have a use for mini medals. The only use we have for full size medals is as a keepsake.
Quote from: PHall on June 10, 2008, 04:49:44 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 10, 2008, 12:45:30 AM
I am a former AFROTC scholarship cadet,
I was shown the door when my medical waiver was revoked.
I've tried to get back via both officer and enlisted channels
to any service that would take me. Army, AF, etc...
Believe me if it was as easy as calling the local recruiter, I'd have commissioned in 2006 and would already have pinned on first john.
---
I will repeat, i would rather wear one USAF item then twenty CAP mini-medals
Well, where would you wear a full sized medal? What uniform combination do you wear that with?
The mini medal is for wear on mess dress plus, IIRC, you can wear one mini medal on the blazer for formal events.
We have a use for mini medals. The only use we have for full size medals is as a keepsake.
Well same argument could be made for Active Duty uniforms as well. I have only seen full sized medals worn by Honor Guards man and way....way....way...back in the day when we still had the formal white service uniform (Can't recall it's actual name).
A full sized medal for CAP would be nice for presentations.
I used to have a mini medal of all the milestone awards and would use it to pin on the medal for cadet promotions. A full sized medal would have looked nice for those photo ops.
I do not take offense to anyones opinion when it comes to my designs. I have twp people in my Chain of Command the National Commander and the National Historian. As long as they are happy I am happy.
Mini medals are fine with me. The only reson we have full size of anything is for presentation. They are very strict on those. You cant order them from Vanguard. You have to get them from NHQ only after the award has been verified and compared to the list of recipients for National Level Awards.
Quote from: caphistorian on June 10, 2008, 01:23:08 PM
The only reson we have full size of anything is for presentation. They are very strict on those. You cant order them from Vanguard. You have to get them from NHQ only after the award has been verified and compared to the list of recipients for National Level Awards.
Or you could always buy one on eBay ...
Jack
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 10, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
Or you could always buy one on eBay ...
I have seen them on ebay for $24.99 and even saw one go for $95.00. There is a company that makes knockoffs and tries to sale them for $25.00. They have been sent a C&D letter. If you are a recipient of the SMV, BMV, DSM you can get them from NHQ for $7.50 for the full size and $7.25 for the mini. They sent mine out and I had it in two days. I got an extra SMV to send to my parents and had my name engraved on the back plus the date.
Quote from: caphistorian on June 10, 2008, 06:14:47 PM
If you are a recipient of the SMV, BMV, DSM you can get them from NHQ for $7.50 for the full size and $7.25 for the mini.
That's nice that they do that.
I personally like the design of the ribbon and the reason. The ribbon should be given with a certificate that specifies clearly the reason why it was awarded at an appropriate ceremony. This should work well with highly motivated cadets who are struggling with promotions yet are showing heartfelt effort (ie cadets that fail PT but are improving steadily). I see here a morale and motivation tool.
Most people who see us in uniform don't know what each ribbon stands for except for maybe "things done/accomplished". They do know that the more one has, the more that person has in experience. I think this is a good idea, if properly handled by commanders.
Quote from: stratoflyer on June 21, 2008, 10:57:48 PM
I think this is a good idea, if properly handled by commanders.
That's the problem. Most awards are handed out improperly, held back by commanders except for their own higher HQ staff, and little recognition ever makes it to the hard-working folks at the squadron-level. Since Commanders Commendations have become great awards for Wing staff exclusively, the Achievement Medal will become a great award for Group staff only.
Quote from: stratoflyer on June 21, 2008, 10:57:48 PM
I personally like the design of the ribbon and the reason. The ribbon should be given with a certificate that specifies clearly the reason why it was awarded at an appropriate ceremony. This should work well with highly motivated cadets who are struggling with promotions yet are showing heartfelt effort (ie cadets that fail PT but are improving steadily). I see here a morale and motivation tool.
Most people who see us in uniform don't know what each ribbon stands for except for maybe "things done/accomplished". They do know that the more one has, the more that person has in experience. I think this is a good idea, if properly handled by commanders.
Agree 100% with SM Rodriguez's comments above. Now if they created electronic versions of certificates such as the Unit Citation Award or the National Commander's Unit Citation that can be viewed in a member's eServices account, better still. But I'd betcha the programming involved would be a royal bear to do.
Below are a couple of example certificates I created; one for the NCUC and another for the UCA. These certs are in 8-1/2 x 11" format for individual presentation or placing in a member's personnel record file. The original 11x14 certificate can remain in the squadron/group/wing, etc. (Not to worry; these certificates are strictly unofficial and are watermarked and only contain boilerplate text; just in case the black vans are a-waiting for me. ;D)
Quote from: Pylon on June 22, 2008, 12:02:29 AM
Since Commanders Commendations have become great awards for Wing staff exclusively, the Achievement Medal will become a great award for Group staff only.
Mike......you are so awesomely correct. I think this is the case in most every Wing and Region. Unless you somehow make it to Wing or Region Staff, usually because you are friends with those in leadership roles, you never see some of "our" CAP AWARD.
This Achievement Award should be awarded by SQD Commanders. This will only become one more award the general membership never sees, let alone receives.
Lets hope your Group Commander likes you (or likes your SQD Commander) because if they don't you won't get a thing form him or her. I can say from personal experience dealing with a Group Commander who had it in for one of my previous SQD Commanders that because of the poor relationship between the two, my SQD and my CAP experience at that time suffered greatly.
Quote from: mikeylikey on June 22, 2008, 12:28:58 AM
Quote from: Pylon on June 22, 2008, 12:02:29 AM
Since Commanders Commendations have become great awards for Wing staff exclusively, the Achievement Medal will become a great award for Group staff only.
Mike......you are so awesomely correct. I think this is the case in most every Wing and Region. Unless you somehow make it to Wing or Region Staff, usually because you are friends with those in leadership roles, you never see some of "our" CAP AWARD.
This Achievement Award should be awarded by SQD Commanders. This will only become one more award the general membership never sees, let alone receives.
Lets hope your Group Commander likes you (or likes your SQD Commander) because if they don't you won't get a thing form him or her. I can say from personal experience dealing with a Group Commander who had it in for one of my previous SQD Commanders that because of the poor relationship between the two, my SQD and my CAP experience at that time suffered greatly.
I doubt it. I see it getting wide use. (Lots of people that are never on Wing Staff receive these...) Lots of wings have their members receiving CCAs. The biggest obstacle I have seen in my years on a Wing Awards board that hinders the rank and file members receiving a CCA is that nobody submits them for one!
This is definitely a case of YWMV.
Quote from: TankerT on June 24, 2008, 08:45:36 PM
The biggest obstacle I have seen in my years on a Wing Awards board that hinders the rank and file members receiving a CCA is that nobody submits them for one!
Uh yeah, or maybe it's a case of the Group's blocking all of the well written CCA recommendations before they ever make it to Wing. >:(
If I was a betting man, I know which one I'd bet on is the case.
Quote from: Pylon on June 22, 2008, 12:02:29 AM
Quote from: stratoflyer on June 21, 2008, 10:57:48 PM
I think this is a good idea, if properly handled by commanders.
That's the problem. Most awards are handed out improperly, held back by commanders except for their own higher HQ staff, and little recognition ever makes it to the hardworking folks at the squadron-level. Since Commanders Commendations have become great awards for Wing staff exclusively, the Achievement Medal will become a great award for Group staff only.
When I was a Wing Director of Personnel, I would beg Squadron and Group Commander's to submit awards for their people. Very few did, unless they were having an awards ceremony, and then rarely. Don't blame the Wing if the Commanders at the local level aren't submitting the awards for their people. I would even get the Wing Commander to make the presentation at the unit, but again if the local unit's can't spend 5-10 minutes to write up a Commander's Commendation, you can't complain about the scarcity of the awards. BTW any awards or promotions we received were processed that same night (including rewritting and corrections to avoid having it sent back to the originating unit).
Quote from: Cecil DP on June 25, 2008, 12:29:04 AM
When I was a Wing Director of Personnel, I would beg Squadron and Group Commander's to submit awards for their people. Very few did, unless they were having an awards ceremony, and then rarely. Don't blame the Wing if the Commanders at the local level aren't submitting the awards for their people. If the local unit's can't spend 5-10 minutes to write up a Commander's Commendation, you can't complain about the scarcity of the awards.
I'm currently my wing DP and I agree completely. Refer to CAPR39-3; it just isn't that difficult. Send a well-written CAPF120 into wing and your nominee could get lucky. Not all nominations will be approved but your nomination doesn't have a chance unless someone takes the time to submit the paperwork.
Quote from: Pylon on June 22, 2008, 12:02:29 AM
Quote from: stratoflyer on June 21, 2008, 10:57:48 PM
I think this is a good idea, if properly handled by commanders.
That's the problem. Most awards are handed out improperly, held back by commanders except for their own higher HQ staff, and little recognition ever makes it to the hard-working folks at the squadron-level. Since Commanders Commendations have become great awards for Wing staff exclusively, the Achievement Medal will become a great award for Group staff only.
For 3 years of service on Wing staff, my former Wing / CC awarded us MS Medals. I got Comm Comms routinly from my Squadron CC when I was there.
How about when someone works really hard but their work goes unrewarded? It's not like that person can say "Hey I deserve an award!" All commanders should be giving awards to deserving individuals, but most importantly, those around that individual should point out that's person's contributions. Remember folks, this is a volunteer organization, and if people start to feel un-encouraged or unmotivated, CAP suffers. I've met many great cadets that felt unnoticed and a simple award from the squadron CC would have made a world of difference. Surely, members of the squadron should have spoken up.
Like I said before, this award has a lot of potential.
By the way, I liked the sample certificates posted above--they looked nice.
So this is an achievement that cadets can earn as well, correct?
Quote from: 356cadet on July 17, 2008, 09:52:22 PM
So this is an achievement that cadets can earn as well, correct?
From what I'm reading your answer would be yes. It's for an outstand achievement, I think Cadets could do things that would warrant that.
Quote from: 356cadet on July 17, 2008, 09:52:22 PM
So this is an achievement that cadets can earn as well, correct?
Yes. CAP decorations are not limited to senior members; it's not unusual for cadets to earn the Commander's Commendation Award, or - more rarely - the Meritorious Service Award. The Exceptional Service Award and the Distinguished Service Medal can be awarded to cadets but as far as I know it has rarely, if ever been awarded to a cadet; mainly because the award criteria effectively precludes cadets from earning one (there hasn't been a cadet wing, region or national commander, for example)
Back in my days as a cadink before the institution of the Commander's Commendation Award, a cadet earning a Meritorious Service Award was extremely rare to see; I only knew of two who earned them as cadets WIWAC, and both are still active in CAP as senior members: Lt Cols Alan and Brian Berry of Georgia Wing. There is a cadet in Texas Wing that earned an MSA in 2006.
Quote from: TankerT on June 24, 2008, 08:45:36 PM
This Achievement Award should be awarded by SQD Commanders. The biggest obstacle I have seen in my years on a Wing Awards board that hinders the rank and file members receiving a CCA is that nobody submits them for one!
I was under the impression that the new achievement award could be approved by wing directors such as a director of cadet programs or something along that line. Sorry, I can't find the documentation but I thought I saw it somewhere. And yes, as I pointed out earlier, awards aren't going to be issued if no one does a "write-up".
Maybe I missed it somewhere but I can't find reference to this award in any official publication. And even more so I cannot find any criteria proposed or otherwise.
Again I apologize if I missed it in the pile of posts on this thread
Quote from: IceNine on July 20, 2008, 04:31:38 AM
Maybe I missed it somewhere but I can't find reference to this award in any official publication. And even more so I cannot find any criteria proposed or otherwise.
Again I apologize if I missed it in the pile of posts on this thread
'Cause they haven't published the ICL yet; I'd figure it'll be out as soon as the National Boards are done.
Below is an excerpt from the February/March 2008 NB meeting minutes:
Quote
SUBJECT: Member Achievement Award
MD WG/CC - Col Weiss
INFORMATION BACKGROUND:
During recent discussions at a Unit Commander's Course, the concept of an award that is lower than a Commendation Award was discussed. Some attendees with prior military service noted that the armed services created an Achievement Medal which ranks below their Commendation Medals to fill this void. This award is intended to be approved at a level below the Wing Commander. For those Wings with Groups the Group Commander would be appropriate. For those without Groups the Wing Commander would designate signature authority (i.e. PD Officer for Officers and CP Officer for Cadets). The intent is for local commanders to propose an award for those members who consistently show outstanding achievement. A member even went so far as to create an example.
The United States Air Force awards those members who show outstanding performance with an Achievement Medal. This medal is given when the circumstances of the performance are above and beyond those of the member's peers, but are not sufficient enough to warrant a Commendation Medal which is awarded for higher service.
The intent of this award is to empower Wings and Group commanders with the ability to recommend and present achievement awards locally.
PROPOSED NATIONAL BOARD ACTION:
That the National Board approve the creation of a new member award, the Achievement Award, to recognize members who demonstrate outstanding performance. This award is to be approved at the Group level or in the absence of the Group structure by a Wing designated signature authority.
ESTIMATED FUNDING IMPACT:
To be determined.
CAP NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS' COMMENTS:
Concur.
CAP-USAF HEADQUARTERS' COMMENTS:
None.
ADVISOR / NATIONAL STAFF COMMENTS:
To be presented during the National Board meeting.
REGULATIONS AND FORMS AFFECTED:
CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates; CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniform Manual
NATIONAL BOARD ACTION
COL WEISS/MD MOVED and COL EGRY/DE seconded the PROPOSED NATIONAL BOARD ACTION
COL WALLING/MER MOVED TO AMEND and COL JENSEN/CT seconded the amendment that by inclusion the sample provided in the agenda be the approved design.
THE AMENDMENT CARRIED
THE AMENDED MOTION CARRIED
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: Change to CAPR 39-3, Award OF CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates, and CAPM 39-1, Civil Air Patrol Uniform Manual.
The approved design, If I remember correctly is the design made by Col Blascovich and Maj Shaw at the top of this thread. Now if NHQ would get off their duffs and issue a revised 39-1 and 39-3 instead of ruling by ICL this would make things a whole lot easier on the membership.
I wasnt directly of the award criteria but I believe that it is supposed to be available and approved at the unit level. it was intended to be used in place of some of the others so that "local" commaders had the say so and could do that immediately instead of having to wait.
I do not guarantee that but I believe that is it.
Quote from: caphistorian on July 20, 2008, 11:03:10 AM
I wasn't directly of the award criteria but I believe that it is supposed to be available and approved at the unit level. it was intended to be used in place of some of the others so that "local" commanders had the say so and could do that immediately instead of having to wait.
I do not guarantee that but I believe that is it.
The award is approved at the Group Level.
For those Wings without Groups, the Wing CC is to designate an approving authority - its in the text cited above.
According to Suzy Parker the Achievement Award is authorized and can be submitted now. The certificates have been printed recently, but still not sent to the units. They're waiting for Vanguard to produce the ribbons. If awarded the individual will have to wait for the ribbon and certificate.
Not the kind of thing I'm going to jump all over.
At a minimum its nice to actually give someone the award they earned.
At the point where they actually become available, I may suggest a meeting between the other group CC's to try and get some level of consistency to the award.
The last thing we need is one giving them out like candy while the others are hard-nosed about them.
^ I think we need to do this kind of thing anyway. I think the majority of us can play nice, but there may be 1 or maybe 3 ;) that can't
From Wikipedia...
QuoteRibbon of Appreciation (Going Through Certification)
Awarded to Officers or Cadets for noticable duty performance where achievements and services are noticed by higher authority compared to others of like rank and responsibility. The Ribbon of Appreciation is to take place of the Certificate of Appreciation, and is awarded to those who have shown above the average service. Although it is currently going through National Headquarters for certification, it is awarded to those Officers and cadets that don't quite fit the qualifications for the Commander's Commendatino Award.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/ROA.PNG)
Any member may nominate deserving Cadets or Officers for the award, except that awards concerning commanders must be initiated at a higher command level. The nomination must be approved by the CAP Wing (State) Commander.
That's not even right.
That's not what it is called, and it is approved by Group Commanders... :-\
That page is a mess, bad grammar, bad spelling, incorrect information...
Quote from: Eclipse on August 10, 2008, 08:00:36 PM
That's not even right.
That's not what it is called, and it is approved by Group Commanders... :-\
That page is a mess, bad grammar, bad spelling, incorrect information...
Thus, why I have posted it here.
Got it...
It needs a lot of work for those of who may be bored.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/txokmason/CAP_Achievement_Award.gif)
'Twas no BFD editing the graphic... now if someone can edit the wiki page!
Until I see an actual ribbon, the khaki color is guesswork.
The ribbon is behind schedule to be produced. The first attempt was bad and the color was off. Vanguard told me they were still working on it.
Does anyone have a picture of the actual ribbon and medal yet. I havent ordered mine yet?
Quote from: caphistorian on November 04, 2008, 09:50:54 AM
Does anyone have a picture of the actual ribbon and medal yet. I havent ordered mine yet?
Someone here on CAPTalk mentioned that the certificate is now ready and being issued (someone have a picture of it?) and the ribbon and mini-medal can be ordered over the phone by Vanguard. It's not yet available online.
Is there an ICL for CAPR 39-3 for it yet?
Quote from: O-Rex on November 04, 2008, 12:42:50 PM
Is there an ICL for CAPR 39-3 for it yet?
Nope. They'll change 60-1 six more times before 39-1 and 39-3 get a long-needed update! ;D
Finally got a picture of the Achievement Medal. We are in the process of talking to them because they forgot to put the words on the Planchet. They are kind of like MisStruck coins right now.
Looking good.
Now...when will there be guidance on the actual award (ICL, 39-3 change, etc.)?
Quote from: cnitas on November 14, 2008, 06:20:03 PM
Looking good.
Now...when will there be guidance on the actual award (ICL, 39-3 change, etc.)?
I am not sure. The best description I can tell you is that it is similar in respect to a Commanders Comm but slightly less. Approving authority is Group Level. Go ahead a submit away.
I hope that the ribbons on all of the medal's aren't crooked like that. It looks terrible lopsided as it is.
After looking at some of the rm active service achievement medals the concept of a blank planchet doesnt seem all that bad.
Opinions?
Until you can actually buy the ribbons and mini-medals its all academic.
You don't award someone a decoration and then give them a coupon for future purchase.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2008, 08:07:46 PM
Until you can actually buy the ribbons and mini-medals its all academic.
You don't award someone a decoration and then give them a coupon for future purchase.
It is now available from Vanguard. They sent me an email and it is on the website now. It can be ordered.
Quote from: caphistorian on November 18, 2008, 07:48:48 PM
After looking at some of the rm active service achievement medals the concept of a blank planchet doesnt seem all that bad.
Opinions?
It's one thing if the planchet was designed without lettering as your examples were. It's another if it wasn't, but someone 'forget' to include the lettering when they created the die for the planchet.
Actually a
Quote from: arajca on November 18, 2008, 08:27:34 PM
Quote from: caphistorian on November 18, 2008, 07:48:48 PM
After looking at some of the rm active service achievement medals the concept of a blank planchet doesnt seem all that bad.
Opinions?
It's one thing if the planchet was designed without lettering as your examples were. It's another if it wasn't, but someone 'forget' to include the lettering when they created the die for the planchet.
Actually, If I were into collecting a mistake like that would make it valuable. Sort of like a coin with two heads or the inverted Jenny postage stamp.
Sounds like it just has to get incorporated into the 39-3 or an ICL and it can start to be awarded.
Quote from: caphistorian on November 18, 2008, 07:48:48 PM
After looking at some of the rm active service achievement medals the concept of a blank planchet doesnt seem all that bad.
Opinions?
It looks fine to me without lettering, though after looking at the Air Force's counterpart, I wonder why so many of our medals are round....
(I know, I know, that horse has been beaten a bit.)
For one thing round medals (and coins, etc.) are cheaper as they use standard molds and dies.
Something like that Sears pocket screwdriver on the left above would have real expensive set-up charges.
Yeah, but Vanguard makes the Air Force's medals, right? Can't we piggyback on molds, if not dies? Is CAP (and that's "see-ay-pee," not "cap") paying the freight on all its insignia, even if CAP doesn't sell it itself?
:-\
Speaking of the no-text die for the Achievement Medal. An interesting thing about the Coast Guard Auxiliary is that all of the mini medals use one of two different dies for the medals themselves, and of those most are bronze. Only the DSM is silver, IIRC. The drapes are the distinguishing part.
Auxiliary Achievement Medal (AAM):
(http://cgaux7.org/d7store/prodspics/50404thm.jpg)
Someone mentioned an ICL -- NO! NO! NO! Stop this ICL madness! Let's see some regulation changes!
Actually... Let's see official criteria for how and when this should be awarded! Too much hearsay. CAP can't be led by urban legend or folk stories. Regulations, regulations, cut and dried.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on November 19, 2008, 02:27:33 AMLet's see official criteria for how and when this should be awarded!
There can't and won't be much detail on how these are awarded, anymore than other decorations have detail.
They are subjective awards, approved by the Group CC at the time.
We'll have plenty (probably too many) of these given out as consolation prizes for people who had comm-comms bounced, and some Groups where they will never be considered.
There is some guidance in CAPR 39-3 for each decoration. There needs to be guidance for this award, as well.
Otherwise... someone who did a great feat in, say, California, to get one could've gotten it in, say, West Virginia, just for sneezing in the opposite direction of the wing king. That's not going to fly.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on November 19, 2008, 02:42:09 AM
So the criteria for awarding this will be subject to whomever is a commander.
That's how it works with every subjective decoration today, and from what I understand in the compensated services as well.
For this and the comm-comms, especially, its whatever the approving commander feels is "commendable" - we see people all the time getting ESA's for keeping the windows of an airplane clean as POC, while other members busting 60-hour CAP weeks get certs of appreciation.
Such is life.
The current Achievement Medal will stay as produced. It is still a nice design.
Now on to the Eaker Mini Medal ;D
Has the order of precedence been indicated?
If not, you can't even put it on your rack when they start making them.
Civil Air Patrol: Putting the cart before the horse since 1941.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 19, 2008, 04:20:39 PM
Has the order of precedence been indicated?
If not, you can't even put it on your rack when they start making them.
right before the commanders comm
Quote from: caphistorian on November 19, 2008, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 19, 2008, 04:20:39 PM
Has the order of precedence been indicated?
If not, you can't even put it on your rack when they start making them.
right before the commanders comm
Before or after? My impression was that this award fell below the Commander's Commendation. If it goes above the CCA, then the criteria to award it must be more stringent than the CCA... which is not how the new award has been described to us.
Before meaning it goes before the CC. It is a lower award.
ESA
MSA
CCA
AA
Thanks for the clarification. When I see "before," I think "higher," versus "after" as "lower." We just looked at it from opposite ends of the order!
Has anyone been awarded this as of yet?
Quote from: caphistorian on January 02, 2009, 02:14:45 PM
Has anyone been awarded this as of yet?
I have put in three people for this; 1) Our Senior Member of the Year because of his service to CAP Communications in creating a usable system for communication from limited equipment. 2) Our Cadet of the Year, for greatly enhancing the CAP cadet program with noteworth leadership and sticking through it from the time it was just him up to the present where there are some 20 active cadets. 3) Our DCC for fostering, financing and driving Cadet Growth in Corpus Christi.
I have heard nothing back as of yet.
So are we now cleared to put people on for it?
Quote from: Flying Pig on January 02, 2009, 11:01:29 PM
So are we now cleared to put people on for it?
That's a local question.
Apparently the certs, medals, and ribbons are now available, so its all a matter of whether and how your Group CC is interested in awarding them.
In these parts the Group CC's had a meeting and decided on a framework for consistency, though we still need to finalize it.
Received a sample of the new Achievement Award Certificate today in the mail. Looks really nice.
Quote from: Flying Pig on January 02, 2009, 11:01:29 PM
So are we now cleared to put people on for it?
NVWG just awarded a bunch of them last weekend.
We have given out a few here in Kansas. The only draw back is the card stock it is printed on. It is glossy paper that does not do well going through the copy machine.
I have templates for some of the awards, so I can use fonts from Word to make a good looking award. I put the persons name on the template and the date, print it out, set it in the copy machine and run the award through. This has worked out great on all the other awards I have tried. But this paper seems to grab a lot of toner from somewhere it comes out blotchy.
I have a large format printer that will do this certificate. If we have a squadron that will pay for the mailing to and from and a weeks or so notice than I can do them. I wont charge for this. PM me for information.
Quote from: caphistorian on January 15, 2009, 06:46:28 PM
Received a sample of the new Achievement Award Certificate today in the mail. Looks really nice.
Shouldn't the medal (the actual medal, tangly thing) be hanging from the ribbon?? Or is that what the medal looks like?
Also should it not read......"U.S. Air Force Auxiliary", not "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force"??
The "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force" is not used in that manner anywhere else is it? Not since 1986?
Ok, Achievement Award down... Now for the Letter of Commendation Ribbon. >:D
Quote from: MIKE on January 15, 2009, 11:10:13 PM
Ok, Achievement Award down... Now for the Letter of Commendation Ribbon. >:D
Evil evil thought wipe it from your mind!!
Quote from: RickFranz on January 15, 2009, 09:47:41 PM
We have given out a few here in Kansas. The only draw back is the card stock it is printed on. It is glossy paper that does not do well going through the copy machine.
I have templates for some of the awards, so I can use fonts from Word to make a good looking award. I put the persons name on the template and the date, print it out, set it in the copy machine and run the award through. This has worked out great on all the other awards I have tried. But this paper seems to grab a lot of toner from somewhere it comes out blotchy.
Try running it through a printer in the photopaper setting.
Quote from: RickFranz on January 15, 2009, 09:47:41 PM
I put the persons name on the template and the date, print it out, set it in the copy machine and run the award through. This has worked out great on all the other awards I have tried. But this paper seems to grab a lot of toner from somewhere it comes out blotchy.
You're getting the excess toner because coated paper (aka "glossy"), much like heavier paper, requires higher fuser temperatures for the toner to fuse to the paper. When the toner doesn't fuse, loose toner often gets all over the paper sheet giving it a spotty or "dirty" look like it got peppered with toner from a leak or something.
Check the options on the printer/copier. Most mid to high level machines will allow you to set paper type to coated or thicker paper settings, which will ensure the fuser temperature is appropriate for the paper you're feeding it.
Quote from: Timbo on January 15, 2009, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: caphistorian on January 15, 2009, 06:46:28 PM
Received a sample of the new Achievement Award Certificate today in the mail. Looks really nice.
Shouldn't the medal (the actual medal, tangly thing) be hanging from the ribbon?? Or is that what the medal looks like?
Also should it not read......"U.S. Air Force Auxiliary", not "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force"??
The "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force" is not used in that manner anywhere else is it? Not since 1986?
I think my Commander's Commendation Award certificates all say "Auxiliary Of...."
Whether the words "of the" appear or not, it doesn't change CAP's legal status. We are both the U.S. Air Force auxiliary and the auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force. Either, or, both. Doesn't matter. Both phrases mean the exact same thing.
-- BEGIN RANT --
Our organization is "Civil Air Patrol." It is NOT "U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, Civil Air Patrol," nor is it "The Civil Air Patrol" or the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol." We are "CAP," not "USAFAux," not "USCAP." If you don't believe it, go look at any of our regulations, or better yet, Public Laws 476 and 557.
Our
legal status is as the Air Force's auxiliary, but it's not our name.
(I recently saw this thrown together in someone's signature block and nearly went postal:
Name, Rank, USAFAux/USCAP
Title
Where are the administration officers to correct this stuff?
-- END RANT --
The certificates, at least the top part of them as posted here, look great. Makes me wish someone would put me in for one, at least. (Any volunteers?)
Quote from: lordmonar on June 10, 2008, 06:29:59 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 10, 2008, 04:49:44 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 10, 2008, 12:45:30 AM
I am a former AFROTC scholarship cadet,
I was shown the door when my medical waiver was revoked.
I've tried to get back via both officer and enlisted channels
to any service that would take me. Army, AF, etc...
Believe me if it was as easy as calling the local recruiter, I'd have commissioned in 2006 and would already have pinned on first john.
---
I will repeat, i would rather wear one USAF item then twenty CAP mini-medals
Well, where would you wear a full sized medal? What uniform combination do you wear that with?
The mini medal is for wear on mess dress plus, IIRC, you can wear one mini medal on the blazer for formal events.
We have a use for mini medals. The only use we have for full size medals is as a keepsake.
Well same argument could be made for Active Duty uniforms as well. I have only seen full sized medals worn by Honor Guards man and way....way....way...back in the day when we still had the formal white service uniform (Can't recall it's actual name).
A full sized medal for CAP would be nice for presentations.
I used to have a mini medal of all the milestone awards and would use it to pin on the medal for cadet promotions. A full sized medal would have looked nice for those photo ops.
When I was in the Navy ('87 to '94), we didn't wear the mini's unless it was in a very formal setting like a ball dance. We wore full size medals for change of command ceromonies when the uniform for the CoC was dress blues or whites with medals, any other time we were in working blues or whites it was ribbons. Nothing in dungarees or coveralls.
Just throwing my two pennies in :)
Quote from: Hobbsh1 on January 18, 2009, 03:18:20 AMWhen I was in the Navy ('87 to '94), we didn't wear the mini's unless it was in a very formal setting like a ball dance. We wore full size medals for change of command ceromonies when the uniform for the CoC was dress blues or whites with medals, any other time we were in working blues or whites it was ribbons.
CAP only has three full size medals(the top three), all the rest are miniature. We don't have the option for anything else, and CAP doesn't even have a uniform that full size medals would be worn on.
Minis are nice on Mess Dress, but the are lacking when it comes to presentations.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 18, 2009, 03:29:11 AMCAP doesn't even have a uniform that full size medals would be worn on.
What about the blazer in semi-formal mode? You wear your highest medal.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2009, 03:32:45 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 18, 2009, 03:29:11 AMCAP doesn't even have a uniform that full size medals would be worn on.
What about the blazer in semi-formal mode? You wear your highest medal.
From CAPM 39-1, 23 March 2005, Fig 4-1. "The CAP blazer combination with a plain white shirt/blouse and black bow tie or blue floppy bow without name plate and with
one miniature medal may be worn on formal occasions..."
My statement was on the wear of full size medals, and is accurate in accordance with CAP publications. There is currently no Civil Air Patrol uniform that authorizes the wear of
full size medals.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 18, 2009, 04:10:43 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2009, 03:32:45 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 18, 2009, 03:29:11 AMCAP doesn't even have a uniform that full size medals would be worn on.
What about the blazer in semi-formal mode? You wear your highest medal.
From CAPM 39-1, 23 March 2005, Fig 4-1. "The CAP blazer combination with a plain white shirt/blouse and black bow tie or blue floppy bow without name plate and with one miniature medal may be worn on formal occasions..."
My statement was on the wear of full size medals, and is accurate in accordance with CAP publications. There is currently no Civil Air Patrol uniform that authorizes the wear of full size medals.
Actually the CAP Blazer and the AF style service dress could sport the full size medals, if there were full size other than the top 3. If you were attend a Change of Command ceremony, the uniform for the day could be: CAP Blazer with medals or AF service dress with medals.
but anyway.... sorry for dragging this off topic further. ::)
Dave, this ain't the Canoe Club. Under current CAP uniform regs, there is no provision to wear full size medals on any uniform.
Quote from: Timbo on January 15, 2009, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: caphistorian on January 15, 2009, 06:46:28 PM
Received a sample of the new Achievement Award Certificate today in the mail. Looks really nice.
Shouldn't the medal (the actual medal, tangly thing) be hanging from the ribbon?? Or is that what the medal looks like?
Also should it not read......"U.S. Air Force Auxiliary", not "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force"??
The "Auxiliary Of The U.S. Air Force" is not used in that manner anywhere else is it? Not since 1986?
"Auxiliary of the US Air Force" is on my Mitchell and both of my Comm-Comm's,
Quote from: SarDragon on January 18, 2009, 05:38:12 AM
Dave, this ain't the Canoe Club. Under current CAP uniform regs, there is no provision to wear full size medals on any uniform.
The only people in the whole Air Force who wear Full Size Medals on their uniform is the Air Force Honor Guard and possibly the Air Force Band IIRC.
Quote from: Hobbsh1 on January 18, 2009, 04:45:20 AMActually the CAP Blazer and the AF style service dress could sport the full size medals, if there were full size other than the top 3. If you were attend a Change of Command ceremony, the uniform for the day could be: CAP Blazer with medals or AF service dress with medals.
As has been pointed out, we are not the Navy. We may have the option of certain items from other branches, but the arrangement you've mentioned is not one of them. We don't do it for reasons of "could", or "would look good".
Also, I've noted the ribbon rack you have in your sig. Hopefully, you're not wearing them on your uniform in that configuration. Per Table 5-3 of CAPM 39-1, military ribbons are worn above CAP ribbons.
A good ribbon checker that includes military, CAP, and many other ribbons is available here: http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm . (It seems to be broken right now, but I imagine it will work properly shortly) It also produces a very nice graphic to use. Check it out. But read 39-1 further as well.
I'm confused...one person said that our three highest decorations have full-sized medals authorized, but then another says that we aren't authorized to wear full-sized medals on any uniforms. So, am I to understand that if one were to earn one of the top medals they couldn't actually wear it?
Only the SMV, BMV and DSM have full-size medals. All other CAP decorations and awards were created only in miniature medal size for mess dress wear.
The full size medal is worn only for presentation purposes only; it's generally not worn for regular use.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 18, 2009, 05:38:12 AM
Dave, this ain't the Canoe Club. Under current CAP uniform regs, there is no provision to wear full size medals on any uniform.
It was good seeing you yesterday, Dave. Congrats on reaching the big 60.
BKB
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 18, 2009, 01:44:16 PM
Quote from: Hobbsh1 on January 18, 2009, 04:45:20 AMActually the CAP Blazer and the AF style service dress could sport the full size medals, if there were full size other than the top 3. If you were attend a Change of Command ceremony, the uniform for the day could be: CAP Blazer with medals or AF service dress with medals.
As has been pointed out, we are not the Navy. We may have the option of certain items from other branches, but the arrangement you've mentioned is not one of them. We don't do it for reasons of "could", or "would look good".
Also, I've noted the ribbon rack you have in your sig. Hopefully, you're not wearing them on your uniform in that configuration. Per Table 5-3 of CAPM 39-1, military ribbons are worn above CAP ribbons.
A good ribbon checker that includes military, CAP, and many other ribbons is available here: http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm . (It seems to be broken right now, but I imagine it will work properly shortly) It also produces a very nice graphic to use. Check it out. But read 39-1 further as well.
Hawk,
Not quit the order that I wear them in, I do follow the regs and the order that it states, for me, Navy first (no AF service), foreign and campaign and then CAP. Each set is in correct order, since those are two different jpgs that I had in photobucket, they are stacked the only way that the forum software won't except the length of text to have them side by side, hence CAP above military (just happens to be the way I copied and pasted the text). Spent 7 almost 8 years in the Navy and know pretty much how to follow regs. I also have used http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm and sent an email stating that the CAP ribbons were not working about a week ago.
As for reading 39-1... done it, a few times. As Commander of a Composite squadron, if I'm going to correct a uniform error I should be correct myself.
SarDragon and Hawk
As for this being the canoe club or the mickey mouse yacht club, never said that it was. I merely stated that the Navy doesn't have specific uniforms for full size either, just different occasions. :) I also know that there are no provisions in the regs for using full size medals on uniforms, I was just adding to the conversation.
And once again sorry for going off topic.....again
I feel like I'm having to put out little fires everywhere on this off-topic. ;D
Drift terminated.