Go check it out...
http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/ (http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/)
Thanks to the recently posted 2007 ARC (Annual Report to Congress), the URL for the new public recruiting site was listed.
Not bad, but I can do without the typewriter sounds on the menu mouse over. :D
Looks good actually.
So does this mean that cap.gov will be changing soon to be more member only?
Looks nice, but I wonder how it loads on dial up? A lot of folks in this part of the country are lucky if they can get a 28.8K connection...
Quote from: jeders on February 21, 2008, 05:48:22 PM
So does this mean that cap.gov will be changing soon to be more member only?
Quote from: 2007 ARC
Multimedia Initiatives
A new and exciting Web presence is on the horizon for CAP. That presence will include the introduction of two new but similarly designed sites — one specifically for recruiting visitors, and the other primarily for members. These sites will eventually be tied together and the usability of both will be nothing short of dynamic and cutting edge.
They are expected to be online in early 2008. The process of revamping CAP's presence on the Web began in mid-2007. In addition to the advent of a new external site for membership recruiting at
www.gocivilairpatrol.com, CAP's member site at www.cap.gov was totally redesigned as well, with a go-live date slated for early 2008. Both sites incorporate cutting-edge designs, dynamic Flash Video presentations and easy-to use navigational structures.
Hard to say how 'members only' the new site will be...
Not real crazy about it. To me it seems a bit over-the-top on the grunge treatment. It reminds me of some of the design of the later 90s. :-\
Kristian, you read my mind, Mark will attest to that.
A few things...
-1 for excessive use of Flash
-1, ...nay -11 on the typewriter noise
-1 for circumcising the command patch at page top
But what really puts a stitch in my side is "Benefits" at the top of the page, and our missions at the bottom. We're not desperate or anything. ::)
I commend the effort. I really do. Only, I think the organization would be better served by tapping the potential of it's members for this stuff. This screams "Outsourced."
Doesn't look ready for prime-time yet.
Some of the links don't work, and the page header still refers to us as U.S. Civil Air Patrol...
I think it's a great step forward for the organization. I really don't see any issue with things being outsourced, at least then there is a layer of accountability we don't have with our members (you can set deadlines and hold them to it, etc)
I'm not running it with sound right now so I don't know what the typewriter sound really is. I like the look and feel of it and it is definitely more appealing than our current .gov page to outsiders and stops people from stumbling around in areas that they really have no need for as a potential member.
Obviously there are a few things that could be tweaked a little (I might vote for a different font), but like I said, it is a great move forward.
Looks pretty good to me, now that I've had a chance to browse through it.
I agree that the grunge-esque theme is a little much. Maybe something a little less grunge and a little more aviation/military would've been better.
Also, yes the U.S. needs to be taken out of the header and anywhere else it might show up.
As far as the Flash, well it's just that, flashy. It's there to make people go oohh and aahh. Lots of sites use flash, even the Air Force recruiting site. Not saying it's great, but doesn't really bother me.
The typewriter noise is a little annoying, but again not a deal breaker. As long as you don't have a hang-over while you look at this site, I don't think it'll get too annoying.
I too would like to see the missions up top rather than down at the bottom. Or at the very least on the right side.
tedda, not sure what you mean by circumcising the command patch.
But I think this is really a step in the right direction. As far as attracting new people, I think it looks way better and is a better resource than what we have on cap.gov.
The heavy use of black grunge overlays and semi transparent images behind some items don't match visually with some of the other design elements. Instead of one unifying design concept, I see at least three different ideas going on here that are not meshing together.
In my biz, I frequently see this kind of work come from a group of very talented programmers who can make code do amazing things but haven't had the benefit of a real design education. The ideal IMHO (and the way I run my ad agency) is to have the brilliant programmers team up with the sierra hotel designers and you get much better results.
Okay, I'll get off the soapbox now...
Quote from: Lancer on February 21, 2008, 05:42:24 PM
Go check it out...
http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/ (http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/)
Thanks to the recently posted 2007 ARC (Annual Report to Congress), the URL for the new public recruiting site was listed.
Not bad, but I can do without the typewriter sounds on the menu mouse over. :D
It's not too bad. Better then anything else we have.
Where'd you find the 2007 ARC? I can't find it posted.
Quote from: jeders on February 21, 2008, 06:20:28 PM
tedda, not sure what you mean by circumcising the command patch.
The icon on the top has no visual space around it and is slightly cut off on the bottom. It seems very crowded. A best practice in graphic design is to specify an amount of negative space around a logo in order to make sure that it has room to breathe.
I commend the effort. As always, I think us members have a very critical eye, perhaps much more so than the public. However, I would want to see our CAP recruiting site be the best out there.
This is part of my Vision 2008 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3948.0) "hopes" for CAP, and I'm glad to see that this effort is being taken seriously. CAP has long needed a separate, public website for recruiting and awareness which is different from our internal member-information-driven site. Integrating the two allowed prospective members to become easily entangled in a web of unnecessary information about everything from Wing Banker and IG filing procedures to SQTRs and testing. Some things are valuable to the members, some to the prospective members.
I understand the site is in development, so I imagine there are still kinks to work out. I would hope National will invite the membership to send in feedback to give the site those outside critical eyes.
For example, on the FAQ's page from "CAP Teens" the question about dues has a broken hyperlink to a .doc containing the dues for various wings. I assume it's a broken link because the site is still under development. However, I would seriously recommend they avoid using .doc format documents. A PDF is much more universally accessible, controllable and standardized.
I mirror Tedd's comment that the command patch being "cut off" on the bottom edge makes it look "unfinished"
The "Find a Unit Near Me"/FindLocation function needs to be integrated into the GoCivilAirPatrol site, not a link to an external site (or at least look seamless from a design standpoint). The current "Find a Unit Near Me" page gives them links to the other members-oriented clutter.
On the donations page, that "CAP Cares" logo has to go. That is excruciatingly gaudy, unprofessional and difficult to see nonetheless. I think the donation page would do better without the unprofessional logo designed in MS Paint, free-hand by an amateur.
The donations video (http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/donationsVideo1.htm) stops about mid-way through and "fast forwards" without sound at 2x speed for the remainder of the playback. Again, I imagine many of these technical difficulties will be resolved during their development and testing phase.
Good work to the NHQ staff for taking on this positive step for our recruiting efforts. I hope we'll all have an opportunity to submit our feedback to NHQ so that we ensure that this site is the best offering our collective talent can produce.
Quote from: SJFedor on February 21, 2008, 06:24:03 PM
Where'd you find the 2007 ARC? I can't find it posted.
Linky:
http://www.cap.gov/documents/2007_ARC_.pdf (http://www.cap.gov/documents/2007_ARC_.pdf)
Danke schön!
the cadet page photos in blues show wing patches being worn by cadets and senior members. If you look at the top of the browser window it says "US Civil Air Patrol"
Quote from: Walkman on February 21, 2008, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: jeders on February 21, 2008, 06:20:28 PM
tedda, not sure what you mean by circumcising the command patch.
The icon on the top has no visual space around it and is slightly cut off on the bottom. It seems very crowded. A best practice in graphic design is to specify an amount of negative space around a logo in order to make sure that it has room to breathe.
Ahh, yes. Definitely could use some work there.
Quote from: Pylon on February 21, 2008, 06:27:04 PM
As always, I think us members have a very critical eye, perhaps much more so than the public.
Guilty as charged!! 8) That's what happens to you when you are in my job. I get it from both being the creative director and having to always turn a critical eye toward my client project and from having taught college design classes and having to always critique and help improve my students work.
I drive my wife nuts at times with it. "Wow, this menu is really poorly laid out"...
Although, the general public does react to design. They may not critique it like I would, by the better the design and the more focused into the target audience, the more positively they react. The current layout is definitely geared toward cadets. How do you think a conservative 45 year old will relate to it?
Gaaaa... I keep doing it! MUST STOP HANDS FROM TYPING CRITICAL THINGS ON KEYBOARD!!
OK, I'm sorry...
^ That is a legitimate concern though - perhaps a reason to separately brand each of our missions like BSA separately brands their scouting programs (Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, etc.) all under the umbrella of BSA.
We definitely need a solid cohesive brand that covers our organization. I believe that it's possible to speak to a wide target audience without going plain vanilla.
Guilty as well.
The annoyances may be trivial to some, but as a designer/developer, I make the best effort not to annoy the visitor. Funny, I know... but that's just me.
Again, I applaud the good intent. I'd suspect that it will be treated as a work in progress as all good sites should and hope that minor things be worked out.
As an aside, the command patch is no longer cut off at the bottom at least, everywhere. Big brother is watching :o
Quote from: LtCol White on February 21, 2008, 06:40:40 PM
the cadet page photos in blues show wing patches being worn by cadets and senior members. If you look at the top of the browser window it says "US Civil Air Patrol"
Its marketing. Nobody looking at this site for its intended purpose is going to say "Gosh, those guys are so out of regulation! What a slack outfit!"
Only Dilbert's boss would worry about that, really. Then he'd form a task force to address it. (While Dilbert is busy photoshopping the pictures to remove the offending patches..)
I'm not changing my opinion of the site just yet, but I am curious if the sound cuts out halfway through all the videos on the homepage for anyone else...
EDIT: Oh and this video is pretty emotional too: http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/donationsVideo1.htm
Quote from: jimmydeanno on February 21, 2008, 07:52:43 PM
I'm not changing my opinion of the site just yet, but I am curious if the sound cuts out halfway through all the videos on the homepage for anyone else...
yup.
So, is this live or are we getting a peek at the beta? At first I was under the assumption that this was live to the public, but I'm not sure now...
Quote from: Walkman on February 21, 2008, 07:55:53 PM
So, is this live or are we getting a peek at the beta? At first I was under the assumption that this was live to the public, but I'm not sure now...
Why would they put the URL in the ARC and post it? Or for that matter why would they leave a beta site working from it's 'final' address. Most professional's dev a site local or put up a static page and nest the site in a few levels before going live.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on February 21, 2008, 07:52:43 PM
I'm not changing my opinion of the site just yet, but I am curious if the sound cuts out halfway through all the videos on the homepage for anyone else...
EDIT: Oh and this video is pretty emotional too: http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/donationsVideo1.htm
Yeah, it's doing that to me too...
Personally I think everyone is being over critical here. Not that its a bad thing, but I think a possible recruit would be more interested in the content of the site rather than whether or not the Command Patch is cut off at the bottom. I didn't even notice half the things mentioned until they were pointed out....
Obviously there are bugs to be worked out (that thing with the videos is really annoying!), and I think they should include some more content, or links to more content on cap.gov..
Looks good, and I think it can be a great resource for recruiting. It will be nice to be able to tell people to just go to this website, rather than specific instructions on how to find what they are looking for in that labyrinth of a website we call cap.gov...
At the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference a few days ago when I first heard about this, it was from Mr Kurt LaFond of NHQ/CP. His contact information is listed on CAP.gov, so for those with suggestions to the site, why not suggest them directly?
That would be Curt LaFond, and he's on the NHQ Cadet Team. He's not a marketing guy.
The marketing department's phone numbers are probably also on the web site. Still, your chain of command may be a more appropriate avenue for unsolicited comments.
Personally, I think the site looks decent. It's not aimed at you and me, it's aimed at people who can't even spell C-A-P (so to speak).
Under the FAQs, it says that CAP doesn't teach you how to fly. Shouldn't this be made more specific to say that only cadets are taught how to fly? (under the circumstance of special activities)
Quote from: MikeTA on February 22, 2008, 02:49:42 AM
Under the FAQs, it says that CAP doesn't teach you how to fly. Shouldn't this be made more specific to say that only cadets are taught how to fly? (under the circumstance of special activities)
For the most part CAP won't teach you to fly. You will get a little bit of instruction on O-Rides, and you can go to NFA-P, but only a few cadets do that activity. It does mention the scholarships CAP offers to pay for flight instruction.
Quote from: Parents FAQThe basic cadet uniform is the short-sleeve Air Force style blue uniform. Most cadets also choose to wear the optional BDU (camouflage) uniform.
While this is technically correct, you cannot function as a cadet without BDUs or a field uniform of some sort (BBDUs, for example), so listing it as 'optional' doen't seem wise. Even if you didn't participate in ES you would still need it for bivouacing and other cadet activities.
Well, I think its a great leap forward from what we've had. I'm glad we've finally moved into the realm of flash, because its, well, flashy! Finally having a dedicated recruiting site is a good step forward. It still has a few bugs, yes, but thats why we call it beta. As for the typewriter noise, I like it. I can't stand going to a site and thinking I've gone deaf.
Now lets see how they promote the site. I want to see banner ads, and freaking pop-ups on websites from msn.com to whitehouse.com
Quote from: Lancer on February 21, 2008, 07:59:41 PM
Why would they put the URL in the ARC and post it? Or for that matter why would they leave a beta site working from it's 'final' address. Most professional's dev a site local or put up a static page and nest the site in a few levels before going live.
Heheheh.. so thats what happened to our site launch at work..
Quote from: tedda on February 21, 2008, 06:07:39 PM
Kristian, you read my mind, Mark will attest to that.
A few things...
-1 for excessive use of Flash
-1, ...nay -11 on the typewriter noise
-1 for circumcising the command patch at page top
But what really puts a stitch in my side is "Benefits" at the top of the page, and our missions at the bottom. We're not desperate or anything. ::)
I commend the effort. I really do. Only, I think the organization would be better served by tapping the potential of it's members for this stuff. This screams "Outsourced."
I'm with Tedda on this.
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 22, 2008, 05:30:34 AM
Now lets see how they promote the site. I want to see banner ads, and freaking pop-ups on websites from msn.com to whitehouse.com
Mikey.... whitehouse.gov... careful where you lurk at work >:D
Quote from: Tubacap on February 22, 2008, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on February 22, 2008, 05:30:34 AM
Now lets see how they promote the site. I want to see banner ads, and freaking pop-ups on websites from msn.com to whitehouse.com
Mikey.... whitehouse.gov... careful where you lurk at work >:D
:o
Is the site not working for anyone else?
Do you have flash turned on? Or do you have a flash player on your computer?
It says the page cannot be found. I've had some others try the site as well and they're not working either. It was working for a long time before that though. Perhaps the site's existence wasn't supposed to be made so public so soon.
Betcha its down for a fix to some things.
It has to go down to fix things? wtf.
Maybe they're putting it in HTML instead of all Flash? naaaa...
Whitehouse.com ... bad place to promote us.
I think it was designed with good intent, but by the wrong people.
Benefits listed up to, US CAP reference etc...
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on February 24, 2008, 04:38:10 AM
Whitehouse.com ... bad place to promote us.
...
still left over from the Clinton administration
Did anyone happen to get any screenshots of the website?
This is from the CAP Knowledgebase.
QuoteThe site and annual report should be available after the Winter National Board this weekend.
It is live, again. However, the only change to I I noticed was the lack of the typewriter noises.
The sound on the videos still cuts out midway though, the tab still says U.S. Civil Air Patrol...
Are there any channels established for suggestions for the site?
I think my concerns with the site, which seems to have the "right" content, are now with the packaging and design.
-- The "How We Get Our Hands Dirty" buttons are buried -- they should be more prominent (like, within the area that is seen before a user scrolls down the page).
-- The "U.S." needs to be nixed. Sorry, but -- to be blunt -- it's not, and never has, been part of CAP's name, regardless of what a former, disgraced national commander said. I'm not sure the paid staff at NHQ got the memo. Also, there's no "The" before "Civil Air Patrol" (ref: CAPR 900-3)
-- There's an awful lot of "air" in the main page. And I'm not sure why the National Board is advertised on this page!
-- Nitpicking, but the type on the command patch is seriously in need of work. Maybe the first thing to do is ditch the PC for a Mac, Illustrator and a decent type package?
Guys, remember: this site is not directed at people who know ANYTHING about CAP..
My bit on a bit of copyright...
One of the videos on the home page (top right) aka this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxjfIw7GgbE) has what I think is a Blink 182 song in it. Do we know if we've secured the rights to have that on our web page? Is it not copyright infringement? I've always seen that vid as one of the best CAP clips out there, but I'm not so sure its legally safe for us to display it.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 02, 2008, 08:38:55 AM
My bit on a bit of copyright...
One of the videos on the home page (top right) aka this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxjfIw7GgbE) has what I think is a Blink 182 song in it. Do we know if we've secured the rights to have that on our web page? Is it not copyright infringement? I've always seen that vid as one of the best CAP clips out there, but I'm not so sure its legally safe for us to display it.
Where did you find that video? (I haven't found where its embedded)..
That was the ending of a much larger (and longer) video that was done by CA Wing's Scott Matthews about (I'm guessing) 5 years ago as a proof of concept. Blink 182 was contacted and from what I recall from Scott, declined to allow its use..
Quote from: NIN on March 02, 2008, 02:31:07 PM
Where did you find that video? (I haven't found where its embedded)..
Main page, upper right quadrant.
If I remember my copyright law, you can use up to 10 percent of the original work, but no more than 30 seconds.
Quote from: Lancer on March 02, 2008, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: NIN on March 02, 2008, 02:31:07 PM
Where did you find that video? (I haven't found where its embedded)..
Main page, upper right quadrant.
If I remember my copyright law, you can use up to 10 percent of the original work, but no more than 30 seconds.
GOtcha. Considering that ONCE AGAIN some "Not ready for prime time" Scott Matthews video got co-opted by "TPTB," I'd be surprised if that one survives another week on the site.
Like I said, that was a "proof of concept" video, it was never intended for full-up release. I have a copy of the full video, and its pretty good. But where Scott is saying "Civil Air Patrol" at the very beginning, and it sounds cut off? Yeah, it _IS_ cut off because this is like the last 30 seconds of the original video and NOT INTENDED TO BE RELEASED TO THE REAL WORLD!
Gosh!
Quote from: NIN on March 02, 2008, 10:01:39 PM
NOT INTENDED TO BE RELEASED TO THE REAL WORLD!
Gosh!
Right, but as the person who created this site probably thought to him/herself, "Oh, well if it's on YouTube, then it must be ok to put on this site".
"Gosh!" is right :D
I notice the moniker at the top of the page..."Everyday Heros, Everyday"
Is this an 'official' moniker we're going to be using elsewhere like "Performing Missions for America" was?
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 06, 2008, 03:50:13 PM
I notice the moniker at the top of the page..."Everyday Heros, Everyday"
Is this an 'official' moniker we're going to be using elsewhere like "Performing Missions for America" was?
Better than
"Everyday Heroes, Every Other Day"
Or "Everyday Heros, every Tuesday and ocassionally on the weekend."
I kind of like "We work at 2:00 a.m. so the Air Force doesn't have to." >:D :D
Honestly? I thought "Your Hometown Air Force" was a great one until I found out it was the Air Guard's thing. :( Darn, missed it again.
So "More Than Meets the Skies" and "Everyday Heros, Every Day" and "Missions for America" and what else?
(I once said to a guy who asked me about how CAP was funded: "Ever see that bumper sticker that says 'I'll be happy when the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber'? Yeah, well, we really are the part of the Air Force that has to hold a bake sale." That's not much of a recruiting slogan, however.)
Then there's my slogan: "Two and a half hours a week is a tough way to run an Air Force.."
Quote from: NIN on March 06, 2008, 09:51:23 PM
So "More Than Meets the Skies" and "Everyday Heros, Every Day" and "Missions for America" and what else?
You forgot everyone's favorite, "Citizens SERVING communities" :)
EDIT: Somehow that makes me feel like I should be volunteering at the local soup kitchen.
Quote from: NIN on March 06, 2008, 09:51:23 PM
Then there's my slogan: "Two and a half hours a week is a tough way to run an Air Force.."
I like it, let's roll with it... ;D
Quote from: NIN on March 06, 2008, 09:51:23 PM
Then there's my slogan: "Two and a half hours a week is a tough way to run an Air Force.."
That's one of the reasons we got the wing administrators.
I have a problem nobody has addressed yet. Why is it that when I click on the ES link, I go to CAP Adults? Ummm, newsflash NHQ
CADETS DO ES TOO!
And visa versa, when I click Cadet Programs, it goes to CAP Teens. Ummmm, I'm a senior member involved in cadet programs who was a cadet involved in ES. ES is a pretty darn good recruiting tool for cadets. Seriously.
Quote from: chimera388 on March 07, 2008, 12:18:08 AM
I have a problem nobody has addressed yet. Why is it that when I click on the ES link, I go to CAP Adults? Ummm, newsflash NHQ
CADETS DO ES TOO!
And visa versa, when I click Cadet Programs, it goes to CAP Teens. Ummmm, I'm a senior member involved in cadet programs who was a cadet involved in ES. ES is a pretty darn good recruiting tool for cadets. Seriously.
Yes they do ES however I don't think memory eluded me that cadets are to make CP a priority, everything else is secondary and that includes ES and I am not saying they should not participate in ES or they can't.
I sure hope to see more cadets in ES... there are a lot of squadrons here in Oregon that have cadets who have never touched ES before.
Quote from: arajca on March 06, 2008, 10:53:35 PM
Quote from: NIN on March 06, 2008, 09:51:23 PM
Then there's my slogan: "Two and a half hours a week is a tough way to run an Air Force.."
That's one of the reasons we got the wing administrators.
At this point, some squadrons almost need a squadron admin (no I'm not talking about a senior member in the Admin duty assignment. I am talking about an admin LIKE the wing admin... if we have to keep shoving paperwork... we're going to really see the need for one pretty soon if this keeps up.
FYI, there is a vestige of the US Civil Air Patrol fiasco remaining on that site -- Go to it and look at the top of your screen and you will read "The U.S. Civil Air Patrol."
There is also another site that "competes" with us: http://www.gocap.org
Quote from: RiverAux on March 30, 2008, 06:44:14 PM
There is also another site that "competes" with us: http://www.gocap.org
Considering that the page info says the site hasn't been updated since 17JUN07 I don't think its much of an "active competition".
What I'd like is for gocivilairpatrol to fix the friggin videos on the homepage!
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on March 30, 2008, 06:44:14 PM
Considering that the page info says the site hasn't been updated since 17JUN07 I don't think its much of an "active competition".
What I'd like is for gocivilairpatrol to fix the friggin videos on the homepage!
I haven't had any problems with the videos for a few weeks... They are all working fine for me.
Quote from: RiverAuxThere is also another site that "competes" with us: http://www.gocap.org
How does that compete? It looks like a mainly cadet resource site, and it hasn't been updated in forever...
QuoteI haven't had any problems with the videos for a few weeks... They are all working fine for me.
Theres one video that still doesn't work ("Coming attractions for your life" one). It plays fine for about 10 seconds, and then a copy of the audio starts playing from the beginning while the original still runs.
The site is "competing" with the official site because the name is so similar to the one that I suspect we're going to be encouraged to promote on all our recruiting materials.
I think that the difference between govicivilairpatrol being a .com site and gocap being a .org combined with the difference in name should be enough to prevent the unwary surfer from mistaking the two.
Personally why is it so impossible to make sure all of our site are .GOV or end with .af.mil ??