There needs to be a change to the regs on using the plastic encased ranks. There are no suppliers producing anything close to a quality product. Here is an example of cheap plastic 1st Lt. bars put together to make a Captains bar. On one set one of the bars is almost 1/4 shorter, 2nd set the bars are crooked, third set is spaced completely differant than the rest. No two pairs are the same. If anyone knows of a decent supplier of the correct Captains bars please post a reply. Not going to wear these toy items.
Ahh.....thats terrible! What kind of CRAP Product is Vanguard producing. We need to get rid of them for embroidered anyway!
That's pretty much all I've ever seen, whatever service you're talking about.
For CAP, all but the green flightsuit have gone to cloth, and its expected the green flightsuit will soon as well.
We're "supposedly" waiting for the Air Force to approve the wearing of cloth grade insignia on the green flight suit.
Your guess is as good as mine on when we will receive that approval.
What's the problem? If both of the insignia in the package are the same, why worry about what a different set look like?
They may look like two 1st Lt bars put together to form one captain insignia, but that's how they make them. Every pair, from any manufacturer that I own/owned were made the exact same way. Those aren't just the metal insignia sealed in plastic, I do believe that the actual insignia itself is also plastic (though I admit that I've never been so interested that I actually cut one apart just to see).
I do agree though, that ditching the antiquated insignia for embroidered is the better (and cheaper/more readily available) way to go.
SAFETY ALERT SAFETY ALERT SAFETY ALERT
Isn't attaching plastic items to your NOMEX uniform sort of a safety issue in regards to fires? Isn't that stuff going to melt right onto us? Wouldn't cloth be better?
I say the above for the benefit of those who are afraid to fly in anything but NOMEX.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 13, 2008, 04:12:27 AM
SAFETY ALERT SAFETY ALERT SAFETY ALERT
Isn't attaching plastic items to your NOMEX uniform sort of a safety issue in regards to fires? Isn't that stuff going to melt right onto us? Wouldn't cloth be better?
I say the above for the benefit of those who are afraid to fly in anything but NOMEX.
I sense some sarcasm there.... ;D
The plastic cased insigna hasn't changed since the USAF used it back in the not-so-long ago. The Capt's bars didn't look like the normal ones you pin on your uniform, never have.
Solution? Promote to Major.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 13, 2008, 04:12:27 AM
Isn't attaching plastic items to your NOMEX uniform sort of a safety issue in regards to fires? Isn't that stuff going to melt right onto us?
SWEET! Then my grade would be branded on my shoulder for all to see!
Actually, the two biggest risks are:
1) Sewing what is basically a stiff piece of plastic onto cheese cloth without ruining either or breaking the sewing needle.
2) Getting some bizarre disease from the fungus growing in those little greenhouses you guys are sporting up there. ::)
Because of my height I've had the royal blue since I joined, and was so happy when they went to the matching cloth insignia, it looks so much better and doesn't snag on the seatbelt.
In 2009 I'm going with a dark blue Nomex because I think they look sharper than the green and will be happy with my color-matched insignia. Ditto on the utilities.
I always used Velcro on mine.
No greenhouses, no seatbelt snags (if they do, they just come off, and I get them later), etc.
Sewing the velcro to them was a bit of a pain, spinning the machine by hand to keep from breaking the needle, but it was worth it to me in the end. I've got the new navy blue embroidered ones, just haven't taken the time to sew them yet.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 13, 2008, 05:21:04 AMActually, the two biggest risks are:
1) Sewing what is basically a stiff piece of plastic onto cheese cloth without ruining either or breaking the sewing needle.
And now you know why I have my grade insignia mounted with velcro.
I sew the loop part to the suit and glue the insignia to the velcro with contact cement.
(The rest of my flight suit insignia is mounted with velcro too. The patches last longer if they don't have to go through the washing machine.)
QuoteI do believe that the actual insignia itself is also plastic (though I admit that I've never been so interested that I actually cut one apart just to see).
They are, give 'em a bend.
Yep... although the historic origin of this particular type of flight suit rank insignia was from the early Viet Nam era when clear plastic was sewn on locally over metal insignia to keep the pin-on metal insignia from catching on harness straps,etc. Eventually it morphed into our current plastic insignia, which was AF issue for years (although some commands, I believe AETC -- then ATC -- used full color on ultramarine blue same as our current BDU insignia sewn onto the flight suits.
This all went away for USAF when they went to sewn-on USAF subdued on OG service wide.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on January 13, 2008, 08:03:19 AM
QuoteI do believe that the actual insignia itself is also plastic (though I admit that I've never been so interested that I actually cut one apart just to see).
They are, give 'em a bend.
QuoteI sense some sarcasm there....
Only "some"??
Seriously though I think it is a safety issue, though a very, very, very minor one.
I saw people with the "greenhouse effect" this weekend using velcro.
To each his own, but when you go with velcro you wind up with a 3/8" merlon on each shoulder. :)
Quote from: Slim on January 13, 2008, 04:05:18 AM
Those aren't just the metal insignia sealed in plastic, I do believe that the actual insignia itself is also plastic (though I admit that I've never been so interested that I actually cut one apart just to see).
I have (I was really bored!). The only metal to them is an extremely thin foil in the silver or gold of the rank. Not a whole lot of plastic either really.
Sew-on would be nice, we'll just have to wait and see what the Air Force allows.
What's the greenhouse effect?
The plastic gets cloudy from moisture underneath.
Slim, you mentioned the blue. That is the second time I have come across that and was just issued a green flight suit with the navy blue capt bars on it. I was getting ready to yank them off and replace them with the stupid plastic but you got me thinking is the blue something new that I missed reading about. It sure would be nice to be able to use them. They look really nice and not like you are doing a gig for Star Trek. If you saw it somewhere can you point me in that direction
I've got the new navy blue embroidered ones, just haven't taken the time to sew them yet.
Removed tag - MIKE
White on blue cloth insignia is still awaiting USAF approval for the AF-style green bag.
Quote from: MIKE on January 14, 2008, 10:10:10 PM
White on blue cloth insignia is still awaiting USAF approval for the AF-style green bag.
But is approved (in navy blue background) on the blue flight suit and utility uniform ;D. I'll be switching mine over shortly.
What piper may have gotten is a surplus CG bag, and those are LT insignia (which isn't the same as an AF/CAP capt insignia). Although I don't know if blue background is CG authorized, I've only seen it in color with a sage background on CG flightsuits.
As someone who will be certified in Scanning this weekend and will immediately move into Observer training Im going to be in the market for a flightsuit.
Im wondering whether to get blue or green for the suit. Green is cheaper (surplus) which is a big plus, but I didnt know if blue would look better from a color perspective. ... comments welcome
Blue.
Looks sharper, won't have oddly contrasting or greenhouse grade, you can wear it even if the donuts get away from you, you decide to go Grizzly Adams, or the wife likes your hair a little longer...
Does that mean you'll find me a wife? >:D
When is CAP officially ditching the encased rank?
Quote from: RiverAux on January 13, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
QuoteI sense some sarcasm there....
Only "some"??
Seriously though I think it is a safety issue, though a very, very, very minor one.
Yeah, but if you're on fire, the little blocks of plastic melting to your shoulders are probably the least of your concerns. ;D
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 15, 2008, 05:35:47 PM
Does that mean you'll find me a wife? >:D
When is CAP officially ditching the encased rank?
I think it was already said above that its been proposed but there's been no action. Feb NB meeting would be the next opportunity.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 15, 2008, 05:35:47 PM
Does that mean you'll find me a wife? >:D
When is CAP officially ditching the encased rank?
I think it was already said above that its been proposed but there's been no action. Feb NB meeting would be the next opportunity.
Getting him a wife, or loosing the plastic insignia? :P :P
Quote from: SJFedor on January 15, 2008, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 15, 2008, 05:35:47 PM
Does that mean you'll find me a wife? >:D
When is CAP officially ditching the encased rank?
I think it was already said above that its been proposed but there's been no action. Feb NB meeting would be the next opportunity.
Getting him a wife, or loosing the plastic insignia? :P :P
I think we'd have better luck finding Steve Fossett than a wife. >:D >:D But if you do, I need one as well.
;D
Well, for the Blue flight suit, it changed a while back.
Quote
I think we'd have better luck finding Steve Fossett than a wife. >:D >:D But if you do, I need one as well.
;D
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
BTDT,
Jack
In regards to the reply mentioning safety and the nomex material:
It really does not matter if we have plastic encased insignia. Every place on the flight suit that has velcro patches sewn on diminishes the effectiveness of the nomex. The velcro patches will melt a long time before the flight suit reaches its 300 degree F charring temperature!
I placed a uniform item order with Vanguard two weeks ago and just received an email stating that my order was shipped but shipped incomplete. The plastic encased insignia are on back order. I checked "the Hock" website and it says they are unavailable there too.
Anyone know of another source?
They are just not available anymore. Vertually no one makes them. The CAP needs to address it but seems not to be on the important list. Been a problem for a couple of years now. Dont worry they will have an answer within 4 years
YEP
CAP SHOULD get with the times. Eliminate the plastic cased insignia and just put rank/grade on velcro
nameplate
But I know traditions die hard. What happens when you can't buy black combat boots anymore other than Vanguard and those are probably made in China or Thailand.
CAP needs to address the new series of flight boots, too. When black combats dies and the membership has to fork out for Bates, 5.11's, and others, then one could argue all the Belleville series tan, black, and sage green flight boots would be near the cost also. The may not be black, BUT are ISSUE and CAP should be able to ID with that, BUT I know better
GET RID of the plastic encased rank, they are not necessary, and the real military has gotten rid 'em a LONG time ago..... Get with it CAP
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 02:33:08 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on January 15, 2008, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 15, 2008, 05:35:47 PM
Does that mean you'll find me a wife? >:D
When is CAP officially ditching the encased rank?
I think it was already said above that its been proposed but there's been no action. Feb NB meeting would be the next opportunity.
Getting him a wife, or loosing the plastic insignia? :P :P
I think we'd have better luck finding Steve Fossett than a wife. >:D >:D But if you do, I need one as well.
;D
Well, for the Blue flight suit, it changed a while back.
I've got a wife I'd like to get rid of. What will you trade?
You want a Wife, what are you nuts!!!! that is nothing more than a future alimony payment. Nevada is much cheaper including the air fare. And they dont care what rank you are.
Beleieve me after 4 I am ready to trade one for anything of value. even a set of Captains bars in green mildewed plastic.
I will even give you the pick of alimony payments you wish. :)
Quote from: piperl4 on July 02, 2008, 10:22:03 PM
You want a Wife, what are you nuts!!!! that is nothing more than a future alimony payment. Nevada is much cheaper including the air fare. And they dont care what rank you are.
Beleieve me after 4 I am ready to trade one for anything of value. even a set of Captains bars in green mildewed plastic.
I will even give you the pick of alimony payments you wish. :)
4 wives? You must really love mariage to have had so many wives. ;)
Well sometimes in life you just got to admit you blew it. When your not good at something you should just not do it anymore. Took a while to get that through. I will say I am a much better pilot than husband thank God.
That said my "current wife" is a CAP member and rated Scanner and enjoys the air as much as I do so there is a decent chance she will need a set of plastic encased Captains bars soon. Then again she may get hand me downs if we can't find them anywhere.
If you cant laugh at yourself in life then you have no right to laugh at others is my way of thinking.
I gave up on trying to get the plastic rank...one of my flight suits has it, the other, well....I put embroidered on it......no other choice (except to leave rank off).....I guess they will have to gig me.
Gig for Smokey... Incorrect uniform.
Quote from: MIKE on July 03, 2008, 04:34:26 PM
Gig for Smokey... Incorrect uniform.
Which until the NB corrects the problem will be a decision we'll have to make. Do we wear an incorrect uniform by not wearing grade on the shoulders or do we wear an incorrect uniform via incorrect grade style? I'm all for the embroidered grade.
Quote from: Psicorp on July 03, 2008, 05:02:42 PM
Which until the NB corrects the problem will be a decision we'll have to make. Do we wear an incorrect uniform by not wearing grade on the shoulders or do we wear an incorrect uniform via incorrect grade style? I'm all for the embroidered grade.
Regardless of what the NB decides to do, any change in the green flight suit will require USAF approval. I vaguely remember it was discussed at one of the recent NB meetings. Since minutes haven't been posted, I have no idea what they decided to do (or request).
This really puts our membership in a bad position....
^At the last meeting I watched, the Vanguard representative said that the usual vendor for the plastic encased ranks wasn't making them anymore. He also said attempts to find new vendors weren't going very well and anyone that made them had such terrible quality. He recommended that a new cloth-only type of insignia be made for the flight suit. He said that would be much easier to manufacture and that it could be made in almost any color scheme.
^anybody know if it is on the agenda for this particular NB? I just got the incomplete order from Vanguard too with this same issue.
I thought I heard someone say that Vanguard got a shipment of Plastic-encased rank insignia (?)
The Hock Shop should sell them... I'm not completely sure, though
Quote from: 356cadet on July 04, 2008, 04:19:59 AM
The Hock Shop should sell them... I'm not completely sure, though
The Hock is out too. I called them today and was told that they do not currently have a supplier.
I just got off the phone with Vanguard to inquire on the backorder status. I was told that they are expecting a delivery from the manufacturer "any day now" and that they are hoping to start sending them out within two weeks.
Apparently we are waiting on AF approval to use cloth insignia on the AF flightsuit.
Just thought I'd give ya'll the update.
I can't think of a better reason for moving away from these plactic encased ranks than lack of availabilty. I ordered some, and got Capt's bars of a low quality.
Would a transition to sew on or velcro be a better move?
Quote from: Psicorp on July 07, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
I just got off the phone with Vanguard to inquire on the backorder status. I was told that they are expecting a delivery from the manufacturer "any day now" and that they are hoping to start sending them out within two weeks.
I would not suggest the below while you wait:
(http://www.ipsidipsi.com/SCB204/images/cat-holding-breath.jpg)
Quote from: Psicorp on July 07, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
I was told that they are expecting a delivery from the manufacturer "any day now" and that they are hoping to start sending them out within two weeks.
Is there any reason why CAP can't just allow us to order the insignias from the original manufacturer instead of going through Vanguard??
What a load of CRAP. CAP needs to allow anyone and everyone to produce insignia, whatever it takes, to make the cost passed on to the member as minimal as possible. CAPNHQ really screwed us all over by going with one supplier.
As a "promotable" MAJ I went ahead and placed an order with Vanguard on Monday. They said that they had NO IDEA of an ETA for the delivery of these.
Quote from: Psicorp on July 07, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
Apparently we are waiting on AF approval to use cloth insignia on the AF flightsuit.
Really? When was it an NB item? I must've missed that one.
If so, it would cure alot of ills. . . .
Quote from: O-Rex on July 11, 2008, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on July 07, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
Apparently we are waiting on AF approval to use cloth insignia on the AF flightsuit.
Really? When was it an NB item? I must've missed that one.
If so, it would cure alot of ills. . . .
Its been on and off the table for years, but I didn't think it was currently under review...
Is the fabric ultramarine blue, or is it (please God) sage green ?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 11, 2008, 06:14:20 PM
Is the fabric ultramarine blue, or is it (please God) sage green ?
I vote for green. Anyone want to second?
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 11, 2008, 06:16:54 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 11, 2008, 06:14:20 PM
Is the fabric ultramarine blue, or is it (please God) sage green ?
I vote for green. Anyone want to second?
It would never be green. Vanguard would not make money off of us if it were readily available from EVERY supplier known.
Once again......if it is sewn on, expect to look like a clown.
Anytime it was considered it was the standard CAP bright on ultramarine blue.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
Anytime it was considered it was the standard CAP bright on ultramarine blue.
In other words it automatically must look like > mess < :-[
So, let me just get this all straight.
Rather then wear insignia that we already have sitting in our desks, and have them for all ranks, you'd rather wear some new insignia that no one else wears.
Am I in the ball park here?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 11, 2008, 08:41:13 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
Anytime it was considered it was the standard CAP bright on ultramarine blue.
In other words it automatically must look like > mess < :-[
Before the Air Force standardized on the blue on sage green rank insignia for everybody, Air Training Command wore the white on blue grade insignia.
And the white on blue insignia is readily available...
Quote from: JThemann on July 12, 2008, 11:42:31 PM
So, let me just get this all straight.
Rather then wear insignia that we already have sitting in our desks, and have them for all ranks, you'd rather wear some new insignia that no one else wears.
Am I in the ball park here?
Subdued AF Officer insignia.......cheaper than the blue and white being sold by vanguard. Much cheaper than plastic encased. Unfortunately, because there are not enough of your type of Officer, you will be left out in the cold. But you should be used to that by now. Do you yet have a gortex slide?
We need to get costs down, and go with items that are readily available. Subdued sew on insignia would be that item. There are more 2nd Lt's through Lt Colonels out there than there are FO's. So it would make sense to consider the majority, not the minority. BUT I bet we could even find someone to manufacture FO subdued insignia for you if need be.
Probably should leave all rank insignia well enough alone for now. Perhaps we will see a move away from the ugly blue and white insignia when we transition to the new uniform. I'd rather wait than start a new "tradition" with the current blue cloth on green flight suits.
Anyone have a pair (or two) of unused MAJ grade plastic encased rank? I know of two members in our wing that now need them....
What about White on Navy blue?
Quote from: davidsinn on July 13, 2008, 06:16:42 PM
What about White on Navy blue?
Only on the blue flight suit or utility uniform jumpsuit for now. Subdued grade (blue or brown) on OD green cloth ain't gonna happen for CAP; perhaps if the RealAirForce® allows us one of these days - if we ask 'em again nicely - we could get bright rank on OD green cloth or bright on ultramarine blue cloth rank on the green bags. But I wouldn't mind the bright on dark blue - it's only one set of cloth ranks we need to worry about.
NO ULTRAMARINE. We've got some threads somewhere on nametapes and BDU rank somewhere and I think a dark blue with white letters and bright rank would look fine on all our field uniforms. I think that was the "winner" when someone made some mock-ups of various possibilities.
Personally, I don't see a need for the rank itself to be subdued, but having I think a sage green background with bright insignia would be just fine. The Air Force doesn't wear plastic much anymore, so the effect would be the same as plastic insignia, just a lot lower maintenance.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 13, 2008, 06:52:33 PM
Personally, I don't see a need for the rank itself to be subdued, but having I think a sage green background with bright insignia would be just fine. The Air Force doesn't wear plastic much anymore, so the effect would be the same as plastic insignia, just a lot lower maintenance.
Actually, the Air Force hasn't worn the plastic encased rank for about 10 years now.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 13, 2008, 06:52:33 PM
Personally, I don't see a need for the rank itself to be subdued, but having I think a sage green background with bright insignia would be just fine. The Air Force doesn't wear plastic much anymore, so the effect would be the same as plastic insignia, just a lot lower maintenance.
The subdued is readily available form multiple suppliers.....NOT JUST VANGUARD. I like to have a choice on where and with what company I buy anything (ANYTHING) from. Personal choice is a freaking AMERICAN principle. Plus it matches the AF. WE are already wearing ultramarine blue, because at ONE TIME we followed the AF lead on uniforms. SOME GENIUS (most likely a staffer at NHQ) decided that CAP would just stay with ultramarine blue when the AF moved away from it. I am sure they thought that there would be enough stock of ultramarine blue junk left over from the AF switch-out that it would keep costs low for CAP. Too bad we don't have a time machine.
Mikey is right....yeah I know I'm taking a risk in saying that :)
The AF used ultramarine blue and so did we as their aux....why we didn't dump it when the AF did is anyones guess (maybe someone in charge was stuck in the disco era) but that color is horrendous. Like avocado kitchen appliances.
I like the idea of walking into the BX and picking up rank insignia (subdued on green) for 75 cents rather than paying Vanguard or the Hock for shipping. The more standard an item is, the cheaper the cost. It is simple economics. Make it special and you pay a special price. Not to mention the monoploy that Vanguard enjoys on those items. Monopoly = rip off.
All,
This weekend I finished the requirements for the FOrm 24 for the promotion to MAJ and the paper in the works... Wing CC already signed off.
I would suggest that Vanguard and CAP NHQ have an issue on their hands. There have to be others in our wing little less the nation that are being promoted at all levels and don't have access to a "compliant" uniform.
I have posted a question to Job performance -> personnel to the CAP knowledgebase.
The question asked if NHQ was aware, what they are doing with Vanguard or what they are doing at NB to rectify this...
Kind of silly that for all of the time we put into this organization I can't get a piece of plastic.
:)
I would ask that all of the others who are promotable that read this send the same question or if you know people not on CAP talk ask them to go to the knowledge base and their Wing CC to make this issue known. This might get it moved to a head at National Board.
It's one thing to change it because "we don't like it" or "we like that better".... It's another to make change for a lack of suppliers.
Quote from: KyCAP on July 13, 2008, 10:05:31 PM
It's one thing to change it because "we don't like it" or "we like that better".... It's another to make change for a lack of suppliers.
That may actaully be the reason we move from plastic to fabric. If it can be shown that suppliers are being slow, or there are a lack of suppliers, that would be something the AF can accept as a reason.
HOWEVER, I think the previous national commander burned some bridges with the AF when he introduced his uniform without their approval.
Perhaps maybe getting rid of rank insignia on the shoulders altogether may be an option. It is already typed on the patch.
Quote from: mikeylikey on July 13, 2008, 10:11:27 PM
Perhaps maybe getting rid of rank insignia on the shoulders altogether may be an option. It is already typed on the patch.
I'd be down for that.
To be clear, I am saying that the lack of supply could be the tool to make a change (for something). ( not to mention the plastic ones catch on everything: seatbelts, jackets, etc..)
I too would be fine WITHOUT it, but if its an option in the REGs and I am paying dues then I SHOULD be able to get it if I want it.
:)
Our peers in the Law Enforcement categories seem to get along just fine without the rank on their flight suits.
http://www.alea.org/PhotoGallery/detail.asp?rid=88&photoid=4034&curPage=6&gid=132&fm= (http://www.alea.org/PhotoGallery/detail.asp?rid=88&photoid=4034&curPage=6&gid=132&fm=)
dupe post... help.
Quote from: SJFedor on July 13, 2008, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on July 13, 2008, 10:11:27 PM
Perhaps maybe getting rid of rank insignia on the shoulders altogether may be an option. It is already typed on the patch.
I'd be down for that.
I proposed that once. It was for the idea of getting everyone in the same inexpensive flightsuit. I don't remember that thread as particularly kind.
[
Our peers in the Law Enforcement categories seem to get along just fine without the rank.
Most law enforcement flight crews are officers without rank to begin with. On my agency though, the sergeants wear stripes on the sleeves of the flight suit below the shoulder patches, and the Capt & Lt wear the bars on the collar (same as on the regular uniform). As I recall LAPD (photo you linked to) does the same.
Quote from: Smokey on July 14, 2008, 12:00:05 AMOur peers in the Law Enforcement categories seem to get along just fine without the rank.
To be fair, law enforcement is a different type of organization with different missions, and as such different uniforms.
I just wrote the proposal and sent it to my Wing Commander. Basically, remove the rank insignia from the flight suit altogether. Now, for those that do not know how to read......it may be difficult to figure out what rank the person is you are talking to.
Hopefully it will come to pass......and I can chalk one up on my big board of ways I "changed CAP".
Just wanted to add on that Vanguard just sent me an email that my Grey Epaulets for Major Rank for USAF style and CAP Aviator shirt are ON BACKORDER!
Quote from: KyCAP on July 30, 2008, 02:55:09 AM
Just wanted to add on that Vanguard just sent me an email that my Grey Epaulets for Major Rank for USAF style and CAP Aviator shirt are ON BACKORDER!
Amazing. Vanguard supplies insignia for what? A couple million military personnel? But they can't handle needs for 55 thousand? Beginning to look like the CAP side of Vanguard's business is more of a fly by night operation.
This may be a dead question:
Those of you who are in CAP and current or former Military;
any chance of being able to use some pull of one sort or another to rectify the Vanguard situation?
Just wondering if one of us out there might know a General who owes a favor ;D
... or maybe you yourself are a Flag Officer ::)
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 02, 2008, 05:16:46 AM
This may be a dead question:
Those of you who are in CAP and current or former Military;
any chance of being able to use some pull of one sort or another to rectify the Vanguard situation?
Just wondering if one of us out there might know a General who owes a favor ;D
... or maybe you yourself are a Flag Officer ::)
Someone would have to be pretty high up to do anything. I seriously doubt anyone here has that kind of brass under their belt.
Then again, even if someone did have that kind of pull, Vanguard's response would be "what's it to you? it's CAP stuff, and your military rank doesn't mean a thing!"
I am thinking complaints to the better business bureau. Or lodge an online GSA complaint. Maybe we can get GSA to re-evaluate their contracts.
I just recieved an email from Vanguard, the plastic encased insignia are in and are being shipped out today...just thought you'd like to know.
I just got the same email from Vanguard.
Now we'll see what the quality is like when they arrive.
Hope all those guys in the latest Volunteer get the memo.
^??
I seemed to recall a memo where National approved sew on rank for the green bag but was waiting on the AF to approve it. (Maybe the dark blue already approved for the navy blue flight suit). Anybody out there hear anything?
I just got my plastic encased in the mail =(
Quote from: blackrain on August 08, 2008, 01:34:35 PM
I seemed to recall a memo where National approved sew on rank for the green bag but was waiting on the AF to approve it. (Maybe the dark blue already approved for the navy blue flight suit). Anybody out there hear anything?
Dark blue approved for the navy jumpsuit and Nomex flight suit a long time ago, indication cloth was being requested from USAF, no word since.
Actually I knew they approved the dark blue insignia for the navy blue flight suit and utility uniform. I was hoping we could use the dark blue insignia on the green suit as well. Or maybe no rank at all as some have suggested.
On a side note can we use black t-shirts with the blue flight suit? I see it's authorized for the blue BDUs and utility uniform. Just my opinion but I think white t-shirts should be left for dress shirts.
One final thing since a reverse American flag is used on all of the other uniforms except the flight suits, why not use it on the blue one as well. The reverse flag with velcro is used by the Army so it is readily available. Amazing how complicated anything related to a military/cap uniform can get when it should be so simple. ;D
Quote from: blackrain on August 08, 2008, 06:10:01 PMOn a side note can we use black t-shirts with the blue flight suit? I see it's authorized for the blue BDUs and utility uniform. Just my opinion but I think white t-shirts should be left for dress shirts.
Black or white T-shirt is OK for the blue flight suit and utility uniform.
Got my plastic-encased Captain insignia from Vanguard today.
They're better quality than what was pictured in an earlier post on this thread. They still, however, are just two bars with no connections. The spacing between them is uniform and they are of the same length, so don't look really bad. It would be nice, though, to have real "railroad tracks" instead of just two 1st Lt bars side by side.
I'll be interested to see how people like the versions for other ranks.
Embroidered grade insignia was approved by CAP for the green zoom bag and sent on to the AF for the okey dokey. They did not though decide on wether it was to be on the dark blue background or the green. But, that is as far as it got. Apparently it has fallen into the black hole at the AF side.
Quote from: DesertFlyer on August 08, 2008, 09:05:51 PM
They still, however, are just two bars with no connections. The spacing between them is uniform and they are of the same length, so don't look really bad. It would be nice, though, to have real "railroad tracks" instead of just two 1st Lt bars side by side.
As far as I've seen, the Capt insignia have always been like that.
I got mine in the mail today as well and I'm not impressed with the quality. The edges aren't sealed very well so I know I'm going to have problems with moisture.
Maybe we can send a set of these to the Air Force and get the sew-on insignia approved. :D
They have always been cheesy, foil-plated plastic, no matter what service was wearing them.
I'm quite happy to be done with them.
I've got matching color cloth on my flight suit and jumpsuit.
Quote from: DesertFlyer on August 08, 2008, 09:05:51 PM... They still, however, are just two bars with no connections. The spacing between them is uniform and they are of the same length, so don't look really bad.
They have probably always been like that. I do know that has been the design for about the past twenty five years. There may be other versions, I'm just not familiar with them.