According to an update (12/12/07) on Knowledge Base, the U.S. Civil Air Patrol tape for BDUs is still in effect. the old style Civil Air Patrol tapes are no longer made, only the new style for sale by Vanguard. There is a cutoff date for the old style tapes listed in the posting. The recent NEC action only removed U.S. Civil Air Patrol from the signature block in corrospondance.
I saw that. I've been waiting to see how the "U S" thing would play out.
They're waiting for the next NB meeting to reverse the U.S. Civil Air Patrol uniform items.
Quote from: Pylon on December 31, 2007, 06:48:48 PM
They're waiting for the next NB meeting to reverse the U.S. Civil Air Patrol uniform items.
Are they going to start with "We apologize for this interruption,we now resume the
Civil Air Patrol Napetapes Already in PROGRESS."
Really, from now on they need to think a bit more before making these sorts of changes. I've just looked at Pics from the Texas Wing Encampment and numerous cadets have the "US Civil Air Patrol"nametapes.
While I am a fan of collecting the sort of novelty that "limited era" historical items (like McPeak stripes and USAF Brush Jackets), I think it is disingenuous to "create" them on purpose (like comic book publishers and the US Mint that create "rare issues" and "rare coins" just because.)
The financial burden those changes place may not be a large one, but it does exist. Especially for cadets and their parents.
It also creates an image of chaos in the house. Think how unprofessional it seems to a cadet's parent. We can't even get tiny little things straight, how are we caring for their children?
Good point, George.
I'm sure they will have some sort of reasonable phase out date for the US tapes that will probably be far enough in the future that many current cadets will be out of the program before having to change.
Maybe National Headquarters will do like the Coka-Cola Company...
When it turned out that no one liked the New Coke receipe and wanted their old Coke back, the Coka-Cola Company arranged for a trade! Bring in your unopened cans of "New Coke" they said, and exchange them for the new "Classic Coke" flavor.
So what are the chances of a, "send us your new or used U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes and we'll replace each of them with a Civil Air Patrol tape." It would be a very good show of member support on their part, and I can't imagine the cost being all that much on the whole scale of things.
-Ace
^So our nametapes will go from "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" to "Civil Air Patrol Classic?" Guess we could just abbreviate it to CAPC - but then everyone would get confused... :D
What about a change of tape color? Maybe white lettering on a black tape? I'm just throwing ideas around. Either way, we're most likely going to lose the "U.S." on the tapes.
Too bad we're not USAF Aux 100% of the time. We could have "USAF AUXILIARY" tapes. It's even shorter than "CIVIL AIR PATROL".
But of course it's all in jest...or is it 8)
Quote from: Stonewall on January 04, 2008, 09:15:17 PM
Too bad we're not USAF Aux 100% of the time. We could have "USAF AUXILIARY" tapes. It's even shorter than "CIVIL AIR PATROL".
But of course it's all in jest...or is it 8)
I've always considered "Civil Air Patrol" as
who we are, as a name. "USAF Auxiliary" I've always thought as more of
what we are.
With our bright tapes, I wouldn't even want to put "USAF" on anything. If we wore the same subdued they did, I could go for it.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 04, 2008, 09:17:55 PM
I've always considered "Civil Air Patrol" as who we are, as a name. "USAF Auxiliary" I've always thought as more of what we are.
With our bright tapes, I wouldn't even want to put "USAF" on anything. If we wore the same subdued they did, I could go for it.
Oh I'd love the subdued tapes. To put "CIVIL AIR PATROL" or even "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" in the blue lettering on the green tape would be great. But the AF is just not down with its auxiliary looking remotely close to something as cool as it really is. I'm not sure why they are against it, but it would spark even more questions from non-members. I can't tell you how many people have stopped me just to ask about the uniform.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 04, 2008, 09:17:55 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on January 04, 2008, 09:15:17 PM
Too bad we're not USAF Aux 100% of the time. We could have "USAF AUXILIARY" tapes. It's even shorter than "CIVIL AIR PATROL".
But of course it's all in jest...or is it 8)
I've always considered "Civil Air Patrol" as who we are, as a name. "USAF Auxiliary" I've always thought as more of what we are.
Yep, you're absolutely correct.
+1 on the subdued tapes.
(http://www.tvacres.com/images/count_von_count.jpg)
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 04, 2008, 09:17:55 PM
I've always considered "Civil Air Patrol" as who we are, as a name. "USAF Auxiliary" I've always thought as more of what we are.
USAF Auxiliary?
TITLE 10, CHAPTER 909 - CIVIL AIR PATROL
Section 9442 (a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary. - The Civil Air Patrol is a
volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of
the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any
branch of the Federal Government.I'll settle for tapes that read
Civil Air Patrol instead of
Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary of the Air Force.
^ I am a member of the VCAAF (Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary of the Air Force)!
;D
Quote from: Short Field on January 05, 2008, 12:53:31 AM
USAF Auxiliary?
TITLE 10, CHAPTER 909 - CIVIL AIR PATROL
Section 9442 (a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary. - The Civil Air Patrol is a
volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of
the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any
branch of the Federal Government.
Ahhh....Remember the good old days when we were CAP, USAF Auxiliary 24/7/365...
Quote from: Stonewall on January 05, 2008, 02:06:05 AM
Ahhh....Remember the good old days when we were CAP, USAF Auxiliary 24/7/365...
Stonewall, I didn't know you were a CAP Historian. We just got a taste of "what used to be....." ;D
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 05, 2008, 03:15:22 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on January 05, 2008, 02:06:05 AM
Ahhh....Remember the good old days when we were CAP, USAF Auxiliary 24/7/365...
Stonewall, I didn't know you were a CAP Historian. We just got a taste of "what used to be....." ;D
Sounds like he's getting olde. 8)
Quote from: SarDragon on January 05, 2008, 07:07:34 AM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 05, 2008, 03:15:22 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on January 05, 2008, 02:06:05 AM
Ahhh....Remember the good old days when we were CAP, USAF Auxiliary 24/7/365...
Stonewall, I didn't know you were a CAP Historian. We just got a taste of "what used to be....." ;D
Sounds like he's getting olde. 8)
I'm not worried about his being old, just his accuracy. That's where he'll get ya!! :D
Quote from: jimmydeanno on January 04, 2008, 09:12:58 PM
^So our nametapes will go from "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" to "Civil Air Patrol Classic?" Guess we could just abbreviate it to CAPC - but then everyone would get confused... :D
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/capc1b.jpg)
Civil Air Patrol Classic.... cool!
Major Max Headroom says, "C-C-C-Catch the skies!"
Ooo, I'm feeling a Tedda graphic coming on!
-Ace
Quote from: alamrcn on January 06, 2008, 01:24:41 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on January 04, 2008, 09:12:58 PM
^So our nametapes will go from "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" to "Civil Air Patrol Classic?" Guess we could just abbreviate it to CAPC - but then everyone would get confused... :D
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/capc1b.jpg)
Civil Air Patrol Classic.... cool!
Major Max Headroom says, "C-C-C-Catch the skies!"
Ooo, I'm feeling a Tedda graphic coming on!
-Ace
Now I'm not computer savvy enough to tell if this is photoshopped, but it looks pretty real to me. Where did you get this if it is real? Kinda scary, but cool at the same time.
This is a vintage ca. 1950's Civil Air Patrol Cadet (CAPC) identifier patch.
Yes, very OLD SCHOOL!!!
Yeah, those are cool. I wouldn't want to wear them now, but they're cool.
I bought My blue BDU and recently had the name tapes put on. Im the first in my squadron to have the US Civil Air Patrol tape, but are you guys saying they are going to do away with that ? I love CAP and everything but my god do they make some changes too much in my opionion of course, why not if we make a change keep it for so long. After all our uniforms and things arent issued to us, we have to buy them. Im a security officer and i dont make alot as it is, i have to sometimes buy things for my duty as far as gear and unfiform items, on top of that sometimes I have to buy things for CAP. I understand that we are the auxiliary of the air force, however the regular air force does have alot of things issued. So my idea is below.
Since we are members who pay dues every yr and arent paid for our duties by the government why cant we have a voice in uniform changes ? Why couldnt they put it on line about a idea of a change and let all members in all wings vote on them ? Just an idea of course they dont have to do it, lol they are the national commanders.
Stay Safe Everyone :)
^ Refer to the NHQ Uniform thread, read through what's going on, and make your voice known!
^ Voting on uniforms is still a good idea, even after that uniform committee compiles its recommended changes and whatnot. Let the entire membership take 5 minutes to truly get their opinions across through a vote.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 06, 2008, 07:45:55 AM
Yeah, those are cool. I wouldn't want to wear them now, but they're cool.
Just FYI, alothough that badge looks like the collar insignia we now wear on the BDUs, it is a cloth Breast Badge worn above the pocket like the cloth tape we're talking about.
Here's another...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/capc1a.jpg)
Quote from: PWK-GT on January 06, 2008, 05:33:16 AM
This is a vintage ca. 1950's Civil Air Patrol Cadet (CAPC) identifier patch.
These were authorized in November 1942, and discontinued sometime in 1949. There were full and partial embroidery variations within that 6 year period before they were replaced with another badge. So, short-lived insignia isn't exactly a new concept to Civil Air Patrol members!
-Ace
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
Quote from: SM-MADDOG on January 07, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
No. The blue flight suit is for us heavier folk. As for the patches, the same are worn on the blue flight suit as the green. For some reason, CAP seems to think the larger people look better in blue.
People need to put out the word on NO US CIVIL AIR PATROL TAPE. I went to encampment a few weeks ago and there were a ton of people who apparently haven't "got the memo."
Quote from: thp on January 08, 2008, 12:41:10 AM
People need to put out the word on NO US CIVIL AIR PATROL TAPE. I went to encampment a few weeks ago and there were a ton of people who apparently haven't "got the memo."
They're still authorized. NEC decided to cease the use of USCAP for official purposes but they don't have authority on our uniforms. I am, however willing to bet my regular CAP tapes that the NB be remanding their original decision to have the USCAP tapes removed.
The NB meets in (I think) March. At that time, uniform regulations can be modified. Right now, tapes with or without the "US" are authorized. Unofficially, the US Civil Air Patrol is on a fast track to history.
I just got a nameplate for my TPU from Vanguard, and there is no "U.S." on it. Which is good, since the next time I have to wear that uniform I plan to speak with a funny accent and tell people I am a third-world banana republic dictator. That way I'll get more respect!
Its easier than telling people that I'm too fat to wear the same uniform as the rest of the boys.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 03:59:51 AMI just got a nameplate for my TPU from Vanguard, and there is no "U.S." on it. Which is good, since the next time I have to wear that uniform I plan to speak with a funny accent and tell people I am a third-world banana republic dictator. That way I'll get more respect!
Kach, that was harsh.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 08, 2008, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 03:59:51 AMI just got a nameplate for my TPU from Vanguard, and there is no "U.S." on it. Which is good, since the next time I have to wear that uniform I plan to speak with a funny accent and tell people I am a third-world banana republic dictator. That way I'll get more respect!
Kach, that was harsh.
Unvarnished truth always is.
If I do a good enough job, I might even get some foreign aid that I can spend building lavish palaces!
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 08, 2008, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 03:59:51 AMI just got a nameplate for my TPU from Vanguard, and there is no "U.S." on it. Which is good, since the next time I have to wear that uniform I plan to speak with a funny accent and tell people I am a third-world banana republic dictator. That way I'll get more respect!
Kach, that was harsh.
Unvarnished truth always is.
If I do a good enough job, I might even get some foreign aid that I can spend building lavish palaces!
Allow me to be the first general in your army.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 07, 2008, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: SM-MADDOG on January 07, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
No. The blue flight suit is for us heavier folk. As for the patches, the same are worn on the blue flight suit as the green. For some reason, CAP seems to think the larger people look better in blue.
Your answer is correct, but be careful how you phrase who can wear the corporate uniforms. They are not just for the "fat and fuzzy", but are allowed for wear by everyone, including those who could wear the AF style uniforms, BUT CHOOSE NOT TO. I do the same thing myself, but we really should watch ourselves.
Quote from: davedove on January 08, 2008, 08:52:09 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 07, 2008, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: SM-MADDOG on January 07, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
No. The blue flight suit is for us heavier folk. As for the patches, the same are worn on the blue flight suit as the green. For some reason, CAP seems to think the larger people look better in blue.
Your answer is correct, but be careful how you phrase who can wear the corporate uniforms. They are not just for the "fat and fuzzy", but are allowed for wear by everyone, including those who could wear the AF style uniforms, BUT CHOOSE NOT TO. I do the same thing myself, but we really should watch ourselves.
Actually,
MADDOG is right. It was designed for the those not meeting weight/grooming. Yes, they are permitted for those not desiring to wear the military clothes. But they were designed for those who
couldn't, not wouldn't.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 08, 2008, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: davedove on January 08, 2008, 08:52:09 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 07, 2008, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: SM-MADDOG on January 07, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
No. The blue flight suit is for us heavier folk. As for the patches, the same are worn on the blue flight suit as the green. For some reason, CAP seems to think the larger people look better in blue.
Your answer is correct, but be careful how you phrase who can wear the corporate uniforms. They are not just for the "fat and fuzzy", but are allowed for wear by everyone, including those who could wear the AF style uniforms, BUT CHOOSE NOT TO. I do the same thing myself, but we really should watch ourselves.
Actually, MADDOG is right. It was designed for the those not meeting weight/grooming. Yes, they are permitted for those not desiring to wear the military clothes. But they were designed for those who couldn't, not wouldn't.
Oh, I wouldn't argue that point at all. However, there does seem to be the thought among a lot of people that if you meet the standards you have to wear the AF style, and if you don't you wear the corporates. Those who meet the standards are free to choose whichever uniform they wish. This is another case where we should try to avoid the "us vs. them" mentality, no matter which side of the standards a person falls.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic. ;D
Quote from: davedove on January 08, 2008, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 08, 2008, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: davedove on January 08, 2008, 08:52:09 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 07, 2008, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: SM-MADDOG on January 07, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
Now I know this question is off the topic of the name tapes lol, but does anyone know about the Blue Flight Suit ? Do you need to meet the weight/groming requirements for wear of that uniform ? I plan to down the road get air crew training someday and im just wondering about that uniform.
Stay Safe :)
No. The blue flight suit is for us heavier folk. As for the patches, the same are worn on the blue flight suit as the green. For some reason, CAP seems to think the larger people look better in blue.
Your answer is correct, but be careful how you phrase who can wear the corporate uniforms. They are not just for the "fat and fuzzy", but are allowed for wear by everyone, including those who could wear the AF style uniforms, BUT CHOOSE NOT TO. I do the same thing myself, but we really should watch ourselves.
Actually, MADDOG is right. It was designed for the those not meeting weight/grooming. Yes, they are permitted for those not desiring to wear the military clothes. But they were designed for those who couldn't, not wouldn't.
Oh, I wouldn't argue that point at all. However, there does seem to be the thought among a lot of people that if you meet the standards you have to wear the AF style, and if you don't you wear the corporates. Those who meet the standards are free to choose whichever uniform they wish. This is another case where we should try to avoid the "us vs. them" mentality, no matter which side of the standards a person falls.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic. ;D
I see your point. I just don't know of anyone in CAP who can wear the AF style uniforms choose not to. I'm sure there are people out there, but like Hawk said, it is designed for those who can't. CAP wants us to feel as part of team.
There are folks here on CAP Talk who choose to do that very thing.
Ironically, some wear RealMilitary™ uniforms every day.
I met a CAP girl officer who wore the white/grays but who (obviously) met the AF weight standard. She said she liked them because she didn't have to wear a hat that messed up her hair! ::)
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 08, 2008, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 08, 2008, 06:31:30 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 08, 2008, 03:59:51 AMI just got a nameplate for my TPU from Vanguard, and there is no "U.S." on it. Which is good, since the next time I have to wear that uniform I plan to speak with a funny accent and tell people I am a third-world banana republic dictator. That way I'll get more respect!
Kach, that was harsh.
Unvarnished truth always is.
If I do a good enough job, I might even get some foreign aid that I can spend building lavish palaces!
Allow me to be the first general in your army.
Drop me a resume telling me your experience in brutally putting down the revolts of desperate peasants.
Tags - MIKE
^^I claim Fleet Admiral, I mean, whats the difference between the Nebraska Navy and a third world navy?
Colgan already has dibs on being the National Commander of your Air Force Auxiliary :P
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 09, 2008, 02:37:25 AM
^^I claim Fleet Admiral, I mean, whats the difference between the Nebraska Navy and a third world navy?
....third-world Navies actually have boats?
Admiral Jack
Yes, but we need peasants to row them.
Trying to avoid a LOCK or topic change...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape1.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape2.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape3.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape4.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape5.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape6.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape7.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape8.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape9.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/uscap.jpg)
TAKE YOUR PICK! It's a TP free-for-all!
Blue on Green or Black on Green.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 09, 2008, 04:31:03 PM
Blue on Green or Black on Green.
Great, but why not the white on red? >:D
Hey, that last one looks familiar. ;)
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 09, 2008, 05:20:30 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 09, 2008, 04:31:03 PM
Blue on Green or Black on Green.
Great, but why not the white on red? >:D
Why not white on black, or yellow on black? ;D
Haven't we done the name tape photos about 3 times recently?
I know of at least one poll.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 08, 2008, 09:41:51 PM
I just don't know of anyone in CAP who can wear the AF style uniforms choose not to. I'm sure there are people out there, but like Hawk said, it is designed for those who can't. CAP wants us to feel as part of team.
The SO and I have over 50 years in the USAF (together - not each ;) ) and when we want to wear a AF style uniform, we just wear a AF uniform. With the exception of flight suits, we only wear corporate uniforms to CAP functions.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 09, 2008, 10:33:38 PM
Haven't we done the name tape photos about 3 times recently?
Those were 'shopped - these are REAL! I'm looking to add to the group too, if anyone has another color laying around, like white-on-olive.
Yes, Tedda - that one is yours, heh.
Quote from: alamrcn on January 09, 2008, 04:27:55 PM
Trying to avoid a LOCK or topic change...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape1.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape2.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape3.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape4.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape5.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape6.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape7.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape8.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/captape9.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/BREAST/uscap.jpg)
TAKE YOUR PICK! It's a TP free-for-all!
I'm sorry, sir ... what was the name of your organization again?
Jack
As I recall a very dark blue tape with white letters was heavily favored, but don't see it on yours.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 10, 2008, 12:52:43 AM
As I recall a very dark blue tape with white letters was heavily favored, but don't see it on yours.
I'd agree on the dark blue tapes. This royal blue garbage is a leftover from the 70's.
Hawk:
"Ultramarine Blue" was one of the two branch colors of the Army Air Corps. The other was "Golden Orange."
The branch colors have been re-born as the colors of the Aviation branch now.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 10, 2008, 03:19:40 AM
Hawk:
"Ultramarine Blue" was one of the two branch colors of the Army Air Corps. The other was "Golden Orange."
The branch colors have been re-born as the colors of the Aviation branch now.
Doesn't make them suitable nametape colors (Can you even imagine an orange nametape? A bit of a stomach churner, there.)
They were probably most en vogue in the '60's and '70's, when the Air Force wore them. It's a style that certainly doesn't fit in the here and now.
So, I'll stick to my original opinion.
Not challenging you, hawk. I hate them too. Just pointing out why the choice was not a random one.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 10, 2008, 02:39:57 PM
Not challenging you, hawk. I hate them too. Just pointing out why the choice was not a random one.
Understood, John, no worries. I just think they're ugly.
Here is a newer update to the KB (dated 1/8/08) on this issue:
Quote
Question
Is it true that CAP has rescinded the use of US Civil Air Patrol including the wearing of "US Civil Air Patrol" tapes on the BDUs?
Answer
Yes the November 2007 NEC rescinded use of US Civil Air Patrol and return to the title Civil Air Patrol. Expect a reasonable phase out period for wearing BDUs with the US Civil Air Patrol tapes. Dates will be posted when available.
Ref: National Executive Committee Meeting Minutes 2 – 3 November 2007
U.S. Civil Air Patrol.
ACTION: Approved that the name "Civil Air Patrol" is the official name and that all references to "U.S." be permanently removed and other references to "U. S. Civil Air Patrol" be phased out over a reasonable transition period based upon logistical practicality.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: NHQ instructions to Vanguard not to make any more items with the name, "U. S. Civil Air Patrol." These items will be phased out over a reasonable time frame.
I was watching "Good Morning Vietnam" the other day and wouldn't you know it...the fatigues with white on ultramarine tapes were being used when the movie was made.
I know this really has nothing to do with the USCAP tapes specifically, but while I'm generally not for "change just for change" I think it is time to relegate the nearly half-century old uniform items we still wear. (BTW, you can see the plastic encased grade insignia being worn in "Iron Eagle")
Just a thought.
I think we were watching the same shows this weekend; Good Morning Vietnam and Iron Eagle. :)
And yes, I also noticed the ultramarine tapes and wondered when CAP got left in the past.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on January 14, 2008, 03:49:47 PM
BTW, you can see the plastic encased grade insignia being worn in "Iron Eagle"
You can also see it in Dr. Strangelove.
Quote from: cnitas on January 14, 2008, 04:28:15 PM
I think we were watching the same shows this weekend; Good Morning Vietnam and Iron Eagle. :)
And yes, I also noticed the ultramarine tapes and wondered when CAP got left in the past.
We didn't get left in the past, we just never changed. If I remember my readings correctly, the Air Force orginally just changed the nametapes for guys going to Vietnam, then changed for everyone.
Besides looking more 'Air Force,' why do we need subdued tapes?
Quote from: jeders on January 14, 2008, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on January 14, 2008, 03:49:47 PM
BTW, you can see the plastic encased grade insignia being worn in "Iron Eagle"
You can also see it in Dr. Strangelove.
Didn't see Dr Strangelove, but remember Iron Eagle. The uniforms shown were fairly appropriate to the time period. There were a few curveballs, but for the most part everything fit the time.
Quote from: JThemann on January 14, 2008, 10:41:43 PM
Besides looking more 'Air Force,' why do we need subdued tapes?
Cost. My Local MCSS will sell me 3 last name tapes for .75 cents! It also does not make the wearer "stand-out". Whats the big deal with subdued, are you afraid you may blend in with the donut station if you are not wearing white and blue tapes?
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 12:43:43 AM
Quote from: JThemann on January 14, 2008, 10:41:43 PM
Besides looking more 'Air Force,' why do we need subdued tapes?
Cost. My Local MCSS will sell me 3 last name tapes for .75 cents! It also does not make the wearer "stand-out". Whats the big deal with subdued, are you afraid you may blend in with the donut station if you are not wearing white and blue tapes?
My closest Air Force Base is about a three hour haul, through New York City, etc etc. If you wanna make that haul for me, then you're welcome too. Just make sure it's THEMANN with two n's.
I don't understand the comment about 'the donut station.'
The big deal with subdued is that.........well..........the only reason to have them is to look more Air Force. Besides, we'd also have to redesign every patch and badge we have for BDUs. So how much money are we saving exactly?
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 12:43:43 AM
Whats the big deal with subdued, are you afraid you may blend in with the donut station if you are not wearing white and blue tapes?
I think it was more of a case of him having to drop some flamebait. Subdued nametapes really have little meaning to someone that isn't wearing a compatible uniform.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 15, 2008, 01:23:47 AMSubdued nametapes really have little meaning to someone that isn't wearing a compatible uniform.
Or to a service organization which has no need to be camouflaged...
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 01:40:15 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 15, 2008, 01:23:47 AMSubdued nametapes really have little meaning to someone that isn't wearing a compatible uniform.
Or to a service organization which has no need to be camouflaged...
Fine......break out the orange t-shirts, and neon green sweatpants. This topic of subdued anything has really been beaten to a pulp. There are two sides, the ones that want to ditch BDU's (and everything military) and those that like to get FREE BDU's from the military and have no problem wearing them.
Seriously, Eclipse not directed primarily at you, but there are others here who have previously stated they hate the BDU's and everything on the AF style side because it makes them feel "weird" to wear them, or is disrespectful to the military community if they put them on. Well, I would rather have CAP members wearing them, instead of the punk ass kid down the street who is waiting to join the local gang, or the car mechanic at the local garage, or the guy who took a pair and made some funky cutoffs to be sexier in the local hood.
If those of you who can't stand wearing them because of personal reasons don't want to wear them, then don't. That is why there are other options available. However, we look like circus clowns when we wear BDU's with orange and pink and green and ultramarine blue doo-dads all sewn wherever.
As far as subdues tapes and patches, I don't care anylonger. I am apparently in the minority that thought we could look "cleaner and crisper" if we got rid of Ultramarine Blue and White everything.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 04:00:01 AM
If those of you who can't stand wearing them because of personal reasons don't want to wear them, then don't. That is why there are other options available. However, we look like circus clowns when we wear BDU's with orange and pink and green and ultramarine blue doo-dads all sewn wherever.
As far as subdues tapes and patches, I don't care anylonger. I am apparently in the minority that thought we could look "cleaner and crisper" if we got rid of Ultramarine Blue and White everything.
I'm in the same minority. It seems that there are a few different camps. The military wearers that don't care about alternates, the alternate wearers that don't care about the military uniforms, and the alternate wearers that feel that there should be no military appearance for CAP. Not sure of the breakdown of them, but that seems to sum up what they are.
What we wear isn't as important as to how we do our jobs. There shouldn't be any reason why a person in blue and a person in cammie can't work together. But some are making it an issue. Not working with someone in a uniform other than what you wear is conflict for the sake of conflict, and so is the argument. It's a waste of time. We have better things to do. Wear whatever uniform you want, wear it right, and do your job.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 04:00:01 AMEclipse not directed primarily at you, but there are others here who have previously stated they hate the BDU's and everything on the AF style side because it makes them feel "weird" to wear them, or is disrespectful to the military community if they put them on.
I feel neither way - I own both camo and blue bdus, whites, blues, and the CSU. I wear whatever is appropriate to the mission, or whatever I feel like that day (which I will grant you is part of the "uniform" issue).
Military affinity doesn't hurt on base, looking like the other ES guys doesn't hurt when you're doing DR, though frankly I think we all care more about this than our customers.
Given the choice, I would prefer tapes that matched better on both uniforms because of the aesthetic standpoint, my point above was just that there is no justification from a camouflage angle, and has been pointed out on 1.256 trillion occasions, camouflage uniforms on non-combatant rescue people, (from a mission standpoint only) is silly.
I'm happy to wear the military stuff, enjoy the affinity, and wish we could just accept what we have and move on (the next round of requests notwithstanding).
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 11:25:50 PM
Given the choice, I would prefer tapes that matched better on both uniforms because of the aesthetic standpoint,
I think we all would. Personally, I don't care if we had subdued tapes, I just want some that aren't garish in appearance. I think navy blue insignia would be perfect, and perfectly appropriate. Darker tape, but not necessarily subdued. And considering that no-one in the military wears blue tapes on any form of camo uniform, it's not like we would be confused with the military services.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 11:25:50 PM....my point above was just that there is no justification from a camouflage angle, and has been pointed out on 1.256 trillion occasions, camouflage uniforms on non-combatant rescue people, (from a mission standpoint only) is silly.
This keeps coming up, but so far no-one has ever presented a situation where the camo impeded or caused a mission to end distastrously.
What I wouldn't mind seeing is a legtimate report on it. Caveat: The crew must have been properly equipped for the mission, carrying everything they should have been
and wearing the
required orange vest.
No reports on some moron group that walked out in the woods with just an L-Per and wearing facepaint.
If camo is really such a negative, then show me
real circumstances where it was a liability. Otherwise, the argument is either for the sake of argument, or of an anti-military nature.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 16, 2008, 02:39:32 AM
If camo is really such a negative, then show me real circumstances where it was a liability. Otherwise, the argument is either for the sake of argument, or of an anti-military nature.
We wear camo because Big Brother Blue does, I don't' have any issue with that, nor would I work to change it.
I don't believe camo is necessarily a liability, either, as long as the required vest is worn as well, but there's also no advantage in it for our operations.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 16, 2008, 03:30:18 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 16, 2008, 02:39:32 AM
If camo is really such a negative, then show me real circumstances where it was a liability. Otherwise, the argument is either for the sake of argument, or of an anti-military nature.
We wear camo because Big Brother Blue does, I don't' have any issue with that, nor would I work to change it.
I don't believe camo is necessarily a liability, either, as long as the required vest is worn as well, but there's also no advantage in it for our operations.
If it isn't or doesn't create a problem, then why bring it up?
I'm replying to your post because it's the most recent on this,
Eclipse, but there are plenty here with a similar reaction. I only ask because,
to me, it seems to be an anti-military sentiment. I also believe that more than a few with this reaction also don't like the military aspect of CAP.
People can get these items pretty inexpensively, and in decent shape if they shop smart. But when the camo comes up, there are a bunch of knee-jerk reactions of "We don't need camo for SAR".
I guess the almost Pavlovian response is what I find most puzzling.
We don't need camo for SAR.
No one does. For SAR you need bright, annoying, eye-bleeding colors.
I like my camo, would prefer we had subdued tapes, and think they look a mile better, however there is no specific justification on a safety or operational level for changing the tape color. If USAF says we have to be distinctive, then I would prefer the tape be a closer color to the garment, and we just go with bright lettering.
For CAP it is only an aesthetic situation, which is fine, as long as that's why we're doing it.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 04:00:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 01:40:15 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 15, 2008, 01:23:47 AMSubdued nametapes really have little meaning to someone that isn't wearing a compatible uniform.
Or to a service organization which has no need to be camouflaged...
Fine......break out the orange t-shirts, and neon green sweatpants. This topic of subdued anything has really been beaten to a pulp. There are two sides, the ones that want to ditch BDU's (and everything military) and those that like to get FREE BDU's from the military and have no problem wearing them.
Seriously, Eclipse not directed primarily at you, but there are others here who have previously stated they hate the BDU's and everything on the AF style side because it makes them feel "weird" to wear them, or is disrespectful to the military community if they put them on. Well, I would rather have CAP members wearing them, instead of the punk ass kid down the street who is waiting to join the local gang, or the car mechanic at the local garage, or the guy who took a pair and made some funky cutoffs to be sexier in the local hood.
If those of you who can't stand wearing them because of personal reasons don't want to wear them, then don't. That is why there are other options available. However, we look like circus clowns when we wear BDU's with orange and pink and green and ultramarine blue doo-dads all sewn wherever.
As far as subdues tapes and patches, I don't care anylonger. I am apparently in the minority that thought we could look "cleaner and crisper" if we got rid of Ultramarine Blue and White everything.
Where do I start?
First, its insulting that you seem to be pouting about the fact we all don't agree with you about the subdued tapes.
Many of our members are wearing New York Yankees jackets or whatnot over their BDU anyhow, so how clean and crisp does that look? As I've said before, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken, and subdued tapes and patchs will not make us more professional.
Second, there aren't just two sides to this debate. I'm all for keeping the BDUs, and going to the ABU eventually, but keeping the blue tapes. That doesn't mean I wanna 'break out the orange tee shirts," it just means I don't think we have any reason to change our heritage (the blue tapes) because some of our members want to pretend they're in the full time Auxiliary/Unpaid Air Force Reserve or whatever.
I do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
But several other arguments don't make sense. My unit has never gotten free BDUs from anywhere, and unless I'm mistaken, not many other units have either lately.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 16, 2008, 04:31:49 AM
If USAF says we have to be distinctive, then I would prefer the tape be a closer color to the garment, and we just go with bright lettering.
For CAP it is only an aesthetic situation, which is fine, as long as that's why we're doing it.
Apparently, we agree on that issue. I doubt that totally subdued tapes are the be-all, end-all for most people. We just want something a little less visually shocking. Darker blue would be nice, even if the lettering was still white. A few State Guards wear just that, and it actually looks pretty good.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMMany of our members are wearing New York Yankees jackets or whatnot over their BDU anyhow, so how clean and crisp does that look?
So we don't need anything else because we have members doing something
wrong anyway? And yes, not complying with the manual is
wrong.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM...it just means I don't think we have any reason to change our heritage (the blue tapes) because some of our members want to pretend they're in the full time Auxiliary/Unpaid Air Force Reserve or whatever.
And there's that argument again. Some people seem to think that it's all "pretend" when there's a want for something
that looks better. We need to have distinctive differences from the Air Force mostly to maintain our uniqueness and missions. But we don't have to look clownish, and we do.
There is a limit to "heritage". We've changed uniforms when the Air Force did. There's a lot of practical reasons for it. "Heritage" is only a legitimate argument to a point.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMI do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
Nice to hear you have a reason. You have come in here before stating that "BBDU's look more professional". Neither one looks more "professional" than the other. A person in either can look unprofessional if they don't wear them properly. Looking professional is about the individual, not the uniform.
You're showing a great deal of professionalism by wearing a proper uniform. Many people would have said "It's only five pounds", and just worn the wrong one.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMBut several other arguments don't make sense. My unit has never gotten free BDUs from anywhere, and unless I'm mistaken, not many other units have either lately.
One, a lot of unit logistics personnel are very proactive about getting uniforms for their people. They look out for their team.
Two, just because you've never gotten BDU's free, do you think that it's never happened?
As far as the tapes go, the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes were a little busy. Too much lettering can just look crowded. These are things that should have been considered. One question that was asked with them is how it would fit on persons of smaller stature. Apparently, that question was never answered. Ever thought about why?
Anyway, someone posted some minutes showing that the USCAP tapes are out. For now, the option is to put the old ones back on, or just wear out your uniform. There's another one coming fairly soon.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM
I do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
Shall we go back in time a little?
Quote from: JThemann on July 12, 2007, 11:32:51 AM
No, I would not wear subuded tapes if I had the option of, becaues I wear the Corporate uniforms. To be nineteen years old in a clear military uniform is unpleasant for me (see my CS post about why I don't wear military style uniforms anymore.)
We're not the USAFAux except under certain circumstances, despite the fact we still tell new members thats what we are.
Seems to be a mismatch- from then to now, unless you have reconsidered- which is fine by me.
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 16, 2008, 05:24:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 16, 2008, 04:31:49 AM
If USAF says we have to be distinctive, then I would prefer the tape be a closer color to the garment, and we just go with bright lettering.
For CAP it is only an aesthetic situation, which is fine, as long as that's why we're doing it.
Apparently, we agree on that issue. I doubt that totally subdued tapes are the be-all, end-all for most people. We just want something a little less visually shocking. Darker blue would be nice, even if the lettering was still white. A few State Guards wear just that, and it actually looks pretty good.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMMany of our members are wearing New York Yankees jackets or whatnot over their BDU anyhow, so how clean and crisp does that look?
So we don't need anything else because we have members doing something wrong anyway? And yes, not complying with the manual is wrong.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM...it just means I don't think we have any reason to change our heritage (the blue tapes) because some of our members want to pretend they're in the full time Auxiliary/Unpaid Air Force Reserve or whatever.
And there's that argument again. Some people seem to think that it's all "pretend" when there's a want for something that looks better. We need to have distinctive differences from the Air Force mostly to maintain our uniqueness and missions. But we don't have to look clownish, and we do.
There is a limit to "heritage". We've changed uniforms when the Air Force did. There's a lot of practical reasons for it. "Heritage" is only a legitimate argument to a point.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMI do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
Nice to hear you have a reason. You have come in here before stating that "BBDU's look more professional". Neither one looks more "professional" than the other. A person in either can look unprofessional if they don't wear them properly. Looking professional is about the individual, not the uniform.
You're showing a great deal of professionalism by wearing a proper uniform. Many people would have said "It's only five pounds", and just worn the wrong one.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PMBut several other arguments don't make sense. My unit has never gotten free BDUs from anywhere, and unless I'm mistaken, not many other units have either lately.
One, a lot of unit logistics personnel are very proactive about getting uniforms for their people. They look out for their team.
Two, just because you've never gotten BDU's free, do you think that it's never happened?
As far as the tapes go, the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes were a little busy. Too much lettering can just look crowded. These are things that should have been considered. One question that was asked with them is how it would fit on persons of smaller stature. Apparently, that question was never answered. Ever thought about why?
Anyway, someone posted some minutes showing that the USCAP tapes are out. For now, the option is to put the old ones back on, or just wear out your uniform. There's another one coming fairly soon.
Certainly, I've gotten uniform stuff from the local ANG base, as well from local JROTC units. But the majority of my stuff comes from the Hock and local surplus stores. Like I said, its really not worth it for me to drive to a AAFEX.
I think the problem comes down to the fact that things vary so widely between units. If your unit gets a ton of free uniforms, awesome. I wish mine did.
I definately don't wanna remove the 'military' from CAP, and I don't want the ES crowd to take over to.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that people conform to the organization, not the other way around. Some people join CAP to fly more and hang out with other pilots, some join to teach, some join to relive their military days, some join because they want to be part of some search and rescue task force. CAP is all of those things, and none of those things depending on how you look at it, and our uniforms reflect that. Sometimes the flight suit is the right uniform for a situation (flying and flight related activies.). Sometimes BDUs/BlueDUs/utilities are the right uniform (field work, certain classroom activities, etc). Sometimes service dress is proper (everyday duties, funerals, parades, etc).
And as much as some people hate it, sometimes the blazer and golf shirt are proper. To be, those uniforms are perfect for Aerospace education, and other interactions with more "civilian" agencies.
Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that I try to accept CAP as a whole. I don't want to ditch the military side, nore do I believe its the only way in CAP.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM
But several other arguments don't make sense. My unit has never gotten free BDUs from anywhere, and unless I'm mistaken, not many other units have either lately.
Don't know why you can't get them - we're swimming in camo, and the DRMO's are drowning in them - now that the Army officially cut over, it'll just get worse (for them, better for us).
You just need an LG who's willing to go get the stuff.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 08:02:40 PM
I definately don't wanna remove the 'military' from CAP, and I don't want the ES crowd to take over to.
We definitely agree on that issue. I don't think ES is the only mission, although some do.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 08:02:40 PMBasically, what I'm trying to say, is that I try to accept CAP as a whole. I don't want to ditch the military side, nore do I believe its the only way in CAP.
Good to know. I don't want to ditch a corporate side either, it allows us a "payday" instead of being stuck with just ELT chases, or lost people. Branching out never hurts.
Back to the topic that came up: nametapes. I'm not one of the folks that thinks that we have to have standard Air Force tapes, and I don't think many that want something better are either. If we did that, we wouldn't stand out from AF personnel, and we need to.
The ultramarine blue strips are becoming more expensive than a lot of the readily available fabric strip nametapes. Nice advantage to the fabric strip, it doesn't tend to shrink up like the woven stuff does. The most common blue ones are navy and midnite. Both of which match Air Force NCO stripes quite well (yeah, we need to start thinking about them too).
I think a really distinctive concept is a mix of some old Air Force, and some of our stuff. There was a time that the Air Force allowed bright color patches on BDU's (it was back in the days when the leather nametag was being phased out, and nametapes were coming back).
I would flip it. Dark blue tapes and rank insignia. For badges/wings and patches, subdue those in complimentary colors to the ABU. The darker accoutrements would be pretty notable as "not Air Force", even at a distance. Subduing the patches would keep it from being too colorful, or looking ridiculous. Nametapes and rank are available
right now.
Just an idea. Personally, I prefer to not be mistaken for an Air Force officer, we don't need to look exactly like them to do
our jobs.
Anyone that has the ability to read (most in the military) would not mistake a CAP Officer for an AF Officer. Subdued tapes or not, the freaking thing says "Civil Air Patrol", not "US AIR FORCE".
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 16, 2008, 08:54:09 PM
Anyone that has the ability to read (most in the military) would not mistake a CAP Officer for an AF Officer. Subdued tapes or not, the freaking thing says "Civil Air Patrol", not "US AIR FORCE".
That's not true. When you have a member wearing subdued rank insignia, subdued patches, and upsubdued tapes, it'll take a few seconds to read it. Throw on an assult vest or a set of web gear, and you have a guy wearing subdued everything.
Freakish thing.....intresting choice of words.....don't you have pride in your membership in Civil Air Patrol?
Maybe when we convert to ABUs, a darker blue would be better. What color does the Coast Guard wear? I know my local cops wear a mix of Ultramarine and Navy blue with their patrol uniform (EMT pants with a modified Blue BDU shirt.)
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM
I do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
Shall we go back in time a little?
Quote from: JThemann on July 12, 2007, 11:32:51 AM
No, I would not wear subuded tapes if I had the option of, becaues I wear the Corporate uniforms. To be nineteen years old in a clear military uniform is unpleasant for me (see my CS post about why I don't wear military style uniforms anymore.)
We're not the USAFAux except under certain circumstances, despite the fact we still tell new members thats what we are.
Seems to be a mismatch- from then to now, unless you have reconsidered- which is fine by me.
People change, and so do opinions. The pissed off kid who wrote those words died a few months back, and now I'm here.
Glad to hear it. Congrats on maturing. :)
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 09:39:01 PM
Glad to hear it. Congrats on maturing. :)
Thanks. It almost killed me in the process.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 09:16:19 PM
Maybe when we convert to ABUs, a darker blue would be better. What color does the Coast Guard wear?
The Coastie tapes I've seen would be perfect. They're navy blue fabric, with white lettering. Matches the dark blue rank insignia already available from Vanguard, some people could literally put this concept together tomorrow (provided that they have access to an embroidery shop, and Vanguard doesn't take three weeks to ship their order ;D )
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 10:15:16 PMThanks. It almost killed me in the process.
It seems like life tries to do that to all of us. Sometimes there's a lot of satisfaction to living another day.
^there are plenty of alternative vendors selling nametapes in those colors already - no need to run a pilot program, just update the manual and let us order them...
Quote from: Eclipse on January 17, 2008, 01:45:51 AM
^there are plenty of alternative vendors selling nametapes in those colors already - no need to run a pilot program, just update the manual and let us order them...
That sounds
waaayyyyy to easy. . . .
;D
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 15, 2008, 04:00:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 15, 2008, 01:40:15 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on January 15, 2008, 01:23:47 AMSubdued nametapes really have little meaning to someone that isn't wearing a compatible uniform.
Or to a service organization which has no need to be camouflaged...
Fine......break out the orange t-shirts, and neon green sweatpants. This topic of subdued anything has really been beaten to a pulp. There are two sides, the ones that want to ditch BDU's (and everything military) and those that like to get FREE BDU's from the military and have no problem wearing them.
Seriously, Eclipse not directed primarily at you, but there are others here who have previously stated they hate the BDU's and everything on the AF style side because it makes them feel "weird" to wear them, or is disrespectful to the military community if they put them on. Well, I would rather have CAP members wearing them, instead of the punk ass kid down the street who is waiting to join the local gang, or the car mechanic at the local garage, or the guy who took a pair and made some funky cutoffs to be sexier in the local hood.
If those of you who can't stand wearing them because of personal reasons don't want to wear them, then don't. That is why there are other options available. However, we look like circus clowns when we wear BDU's with orange and pink and green and ultramarine blue doo-dads all sewn wherever.
As far as subdues tapes and patches, I don't care anylonger. I am apparently in the minority that thought we could look "cleaner and crisper" if we got rid of Ultramarine Blue and White everything.
Where do I start?
First, its insulting that you seem to be pouting about the fact we all don't agree with you about the subdued tapes.
Many of our members are wearing New York Yankees jackets or whatnot over their BDU anyhow, so how clean and crisp does that look? As I've said before, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken, and subdued tapes and patchs will not make us more professional.
Second, there aren't just two sides to this debate. I'm all for keeping the BDUs, and going to the ABU eventually, but keeping the blue tapes. That doesn't mean I wanna 'break out the orange tee shirts," it just means I don't think we have any reason to change our heritage (the blue tapes) because some of our members want to pretend they're in the full time Auxiliary/Unpaid Air Force Reserve or whatever.
I do wear the blue BDUs, because I'm about five pounds over weight, and I just like them better. I don't hate the military style uniforms at all. I just don't wear them. If I didn't have the option of Blue BDUs, then I'd wear the regular BDUs, simple as that.
But several other arguments don't make sense. My unit has never gotten free BDUs from anywhere, and unless I'm mistaken, not many other units have either lately.
I wear the BBDU too, because I'm a little more than 5 pounds overweight. I think dark blue tapes simply LOOK BETTER on the uniform. I am not a wannabe. I could be called a usta-be, but my preference for darker blue tapes is merely to lose the appearance that the tapes are washed-out and faded against the darker blue uniform.
Quote from: JThemann on January 16, 2008, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 09:39:01 PM
Glad to hear it. Congrats on maturing. :)
Thanks. It almost killed me in the process.
It'll do that sometimes. Very glad you made it through it all and came out a better person.
Jack
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 17, 2008, 03:24:31 AM... I think dark blue tapes simply LOOK BETTER on the uniform. I am not a wannabe. I could be called a usta-be, but my preference for darker blue tapes is merely to lose the appearance that the tapes are washed-out and faded against the darker blue uniform.
I never really put my finger on that, but they do seem to be washed out, don't they? Wonder why?
Subdued fabrics wear out just as fast as bright ones. It's just easier to see the fade on bright ones so it creates the impression that they are more faded.
On that note... we should all write up a letter, sign it, and pass it up the chain to change all CAP name and branch tapes to white on navy with the adoption of the ABU to reduce the burden on membership, reduce cost of procurement, and improve uniformity of membership.
One tape for all uniforms!
Is it acceptable by CAP standards to carry pens/pencils in the appropriate compartment on the BDU, even if they cover up the CAP tape?
This one's been hampering my weekly pocket load-up for years.
CAPM 39-1 has the answer.
I understand that, sir. Is there a revision to the regulation that says that one cannot do so?
No. Pens and/or pencils may not cover the Civil Air Patrol tape.
You're supposed to put them inside the pocket, inside the little pouch. That way they can not be seen and are not hanging out of the uniform.
It's pretty annoying to see someone walking around with a Viagra, or Sesame Street pen sticking up out of their uniform.
Quote from: MikeTA on January 19, 2008, 10:55:43 PM
I understand that, sir. Is there a revision to the regulation that says that one cannot do so?
No, note for Recruiter and edmo1 see below:
Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Table 2-5.11 Pens and Pencils Concealed. EXCEPTION: When carried in pen/pencil compartment
of BDU, utility or field uniform, flight suit or flight jacket.
I don't carry anything but these:
(http://www.spacepen.com/images/database/309.jpg)
http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=292
Take off the clip and they disappear into the pen slot on your blues, and hide nicely in the button slot
of the BDU. Closed they are about 1/2 the size of a standard pen, but open they are full-sized and have a nice heft, as a pen should. With or without the stylus tip they are the best pen you'll ever use.
You can get the pens in chrome or black from Staples, but the stylus tip version can only be purchased from
Fisher direct (or a few online sources). You can also buy just the stylus cap if you already have one
The used to actually sell them at the Great Lakes Navex as "uniform pens".
Quote from: MikeTA on January 19, 2008, 10:55:43 PM
I understand that, sir. Is there a revision to the regulation that says that one cannot do so?
Why would you want to? It looks kinda tacky.
The way I (and many, many others) have been doing it for years is to clip pens onto the front button placket. Stick them inside against your T-shirt. Won't hurt anything, you don't have them sticking out of your pocket, and you look squared away.
You'll be happy to know that there is a pen pocket on the ABU sleeve. There is also an inside pocket (that anyone with mild intelligence will cut out) for you to carry documents or stuff in... of course you'll have to unbutton to use the pocket. There will also be small utility pockets inside large cargo pockets on each leg (perfect for sneaking a candy bar onto the flightline). Hey! It's the Air Force way! >:D