I know this is a big rock to throw in the pond at this late stage, however...
I think we should consider sunsetting the BBDU in favor of gray BDU's when we sunset the woodland BDU in favor of ABU.
The ABU is a much lighter color than the BDU and we would be a closer match to ABU's if we were wearing a lighter color BDU. Gray would also be a better color in sunny and hot climes.
The two major downsides are the cost of retooling (but if the sunset time is 4-5 years out which would allow changeover through attrition) and the fact that gray will show more dirt than blue, but so will the ABU, so we'll be even.
Also, we can either use blue on gray or gray on blue nametapes on both without it looking odd for either. Heck, we could use sage on the gray BDU's if that would make the sage types happy.
I think this idea should be given serious consideration.
I'd be okay with it. Would make it closer in color to the ABU.
I'd be in favor of it for the simple reason that it would make us look less like SWAT team members.
Quote from: RiverAux on December 14, 2007, 02:27:33 PM
I'd be in favor of it for the simple reason that it would make us look less like SWAT team members.
Not really a good argument - there are police and sheriff departments all across the country and they use all sorts of colors for their tac teams. I'm sure someone is using gray, tan or blue as well as black.
yeah, but in most places the dark blues seem to be the most common. Plus, I agree on the heat issue.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 14, 2007, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 14, 2007, 02:27:33 PM
I'd be in favor of it for the simple reason that it would make us look less like SWAT team members.
Not really a good argument - there are police and sheriff departments all across the country and they use all sorts of colors for their tac teams. I'm sure someone is using gray, tan or blue as well as black.
I agree. I think that's irrelevant. SWAT folks wear BDUs all the time. Chances are, they'll be wearing ACU type fatigues soon enough. If someone is really worried about looking like SWAT, you'll never conform to a standard because SWAT doesn't conform to a standard nationwide.
If we are changing colors why not pick a color that makes you stand out on a SAR - like orange. Then the color change will actually serve a real purpose.
Quote from: Short Field on December 14, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
If we are changing colors why not pick a color that makes you stand out on a SAR - like orange. Then the color change will actually serve a real purpose.
The purpose is to align out corporate field uniform to our future AF field uniform.
Quote from: Short Field on December 14, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
If we are changing colors why not pick a color that makes you stand out on a SAR - like orange. Then the color change will actually serve a real purpose.
because I wear fatigues more to meetings than on SAR missions. I don't like blinding people when I go CAP work.
Quote from: Short Field on December 14, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
If we are changing colors why not pick a color that makes you stand out on a SAR - like orange. Then the color change will actually serve a real purpose.
Because not everything has to be about ES. 2 out of three missions are something else, and all three usually include wearing the uniform.
If we went gray, would we be the Confederate Air Patrol?
Quote from: RiverAux on December 15, 2007, 01:31:45 PM
If we went gray, would we be the Confederate Air Patrol?
Please, the PC term is "Commemorative."
Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 15, 2007, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 15, 2007, 01:31:45 PM
If we went gray, would we be the Confederate Air Patrol?
Please, the PC term is "Commemorative."
I'm not PC
[/drift]
Aren't the Civilian cops at Air Force posts in Korea wearing a modified all tan ABU?
Maybe something like that could work.
Quote from: Short Field on December 14, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
If we are changing colors why not pick a color that makes you stand out on a SAR - like orange. Then the color change will actually serve a real purpose.
I would prefer not to look like a prison chain-gang ;)
Fade to gray I say....sounds like a sound idea...
LtCol White...any input for the uniform committee?
/r
LT
I believe the good Lt Col has repeated said that the committee is not looking at that kind of a major change at this time.
Quote from: arajca on December 16, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
I believe the good Lt Col has repeated said that the committee is not looking at that kind of a major change at this time.
Maybe, but the time to plan these things is when you have a long lead time. Telling people when the ABU comes in in 4 years we'll move to gray BDU's is a lot better than 1 year warning. More importantly, if you have a transition period people aren't stuck buying something that will be outdated before it's worn out.
I really don't mind the blue as they are now. Sure, navy blue insignia/tapes would look a little better, but they're just fine as-is.
Honestly, if I'm going to have to spend $60-70 a pop to replace my four sets of BBDUs anyway, I'd just as soon go to the OD green BDUs.
Just as functional, wouldn't look too out of place with ABUs, and it would be a connection to our (at least my) heritage.
I don't wear the blue version, but I think I probably would if we went to a gray or OD green and make it look right.
All patches would have to actually match the shirt. The background color of them would be the same color as the shirt (gray or od) with subdued contrasting colors for the embroidery. The U.S. flag is cool, but no wing patch and no cartoon colored pocket patches.
I'm on board.
I would agree with the change to grey for a couple of reasons
1. It blends with the ABU. If the goal is "one uniform, one team", then the Navy Blue BDU isn't a good fit. It stands out next to the USAF equivalent. As we make the TPU more like the Service Dress, doing the same with the utilities only makes sense.
2. It's commercially available. Perhaps even more than blue. I've seen grey everywhere.
3. For our folks in the southern half of the country - grey is MUCH cooler. And for the folks up north, you can always put more stuff on underneath if it's cold.
Only one real downside - it will show dirt a little more. I can live with that.
The real key would be to have a long term phase out so that no one gets screwed in the pocketbook. BBDUs don't last forever (they fade afer a while) so a long term phase-in strategy would limit the dollar damage to members.
Oh yeah, grey flightsuits also blend better with grey/green nomex than light blue.
I still don't get why people are so caught up on us getting the ABU any time soon. I mean have we heard that we'll get it soon? If we did I'd be surprised as they don't have them out to everyone in the Air Force yet. I think it's going to be another 5 years or so till we see any movement from the AF on us being able to get the ABU.
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on December 17, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
I still don't get why people are so caught up on us getting the ABU any time soon. I mean have we heard that we'll get it soon? If we did I'd be surprised as they don't have them out to everyone in the Air Force yet. I think it's going to be another 5 years or so till we see any movement from the AF on us being able to get the ABU.
You're right - it will be years.
However, that's no reason not to plan for the changeover and also make the future CAP uniform mesh well with the future AF uniform.
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on December 17, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
I still don't get why people are so caught up on us getting the ABU any time soon. I mean have we heard that we'll get it soon? If we did I'd be surprised as they don't have them out to everyone in the Air Force yet. I think it's going to be another 5 years or so till we see any movement from the AF on us being able to get the ABU.
If you read the uniform committee thread, you'll see that they (the uniform committee) wants us to transition to the ABU sooner rather than later. Even if we don't get into it right away, they want to prepare for it.
Failure to plan is planning for failure
Quote from: jeders on December 17, 2007, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on December 17, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
I still don't get why people are so caught up on us getting the ABU any time soon. I mean have we heard that we'll get it soon? If we did I'd be surprised as they don't have them out to everyone in the Air Force yet. I think it's going to be another 5 years or so till we see any movement from the AF on us being able to get the ABU.
If you read the uniform committee thread, you'll see that they (the uniform committee) wants us to transition to the ABU sooner rather than later. Even if we don't get into it right away, they want to prepare for it.
Failure to plan is planning for failure
Yes I have read that thread. But also for the ABU it's up to the Air Force so why waste time making plans that we don't need yet while we can fix what must be fixed with what we already have. I mean streamline all the Senior distinctives maybe get rid of one of them
Actually, it's pretty common to make plans before things get made official. If you wait until all the ducks are in a row, you're already late.
What we wouldn't want to do is take any ACTION until things are set up. That would be stupid. But having an OPLAN ready to turn into an OPORD when the time is right is just good strategic thinking.
But wouldn't it be cool if, for once, CAP was ready with a plan 5 years early? Instead of jumping through our buts to field some new uniform thing in a year?
Quote from: Dragoon on December 17, 2007, 06:48:07 PM
Actually, it's pretty common to make plans before things get made official. If you wait until all the ducks are in a row, you're already late.
What we wouldn't want to do is take any ACTION until things are set up. That would be stupid. But having an OPLAN ready to turn into an OPORD when the time is right is just good strategic thinking.
But wouldn't it be cool if, for once, CAP was ready with a plan 5 years early? Instead of jumping through our buts to field some new uniform thing in a year?
Ok, I see that point. But what about for the more immeadiate worry about what is rather than what will or could be.
Have to say that I'd rather see us in OD than Gray. Gray screams Law Enforcement. OD has a similar visual value, but is, IMHO, more miltary.
Quote from: Falshrmjgr on December 17, 2007, 08:22:31 PM
Have to say that I'd rather see us in OD than Gray. Gray screams Law Enforcement. OD has a similar visual value, but is, IMHO, more miltary.
But there's very little OD in ABU's - it's more in the sage/sand/slate range.
I'd agree with that. OD blends much better with the BDUs, but I think grey would blend better with the ABUs. But either would make things a bit more "uniform" than what we have now (although personally, I really like the blue utility uniform - pretty snazzy and the chicks dig it). ;D Uniformity is more important.