How come there aren't more national special activities geared towards seniors? Other than the National Emergency Services Academy and Hawk Mountain and the regional/national staff colleges I can't think of any.
I think there could be a "market" for some senior-focused activities.
Ive spent several fun summers working NBB as an officer
The list you basically dismiss is pretty extensive.
What else would you want? Bearing in mind, of course, that seniors members are a part of every cadet NCSA.
This year I spent almost 8 weeks at various NCSAs. 8)
At CLA, we ran into several dozen seniors walking the halls of Congress as we delivered CAP's message to our elected representatives.
At COS, over a dozen seniors worked as seminar leaders as well as in support positions.
And during IACE, probably over 100 seniors worked as escorts, hosts, staff, and observers on five continents.
At each activity, the seniors were pretty much working at the same missions and learning the same lessons as the cadets. There was no "babysitting" or "busy work" for the seniors.
And I suspect they learned as much or more than the cadets.
I'd call that a form of "senior-focused" NCSA.
Ned Lee
Director, CLA
Yes, of course seniors are a part of every cadet special activity and yes, they get some benefit out of it. Never said they didn't.
However, how about something geared towards seniors. Perhaps opportunities for small groups to work with folks in various AF units that might have something to teach CAP?
Quote from: RiverAux on November 25, 2007, 04:08:34 AM
However, how about something geared towards seniors. Perhaps opportunities for small groups to work with folks in various AF units that might have something to teach CAP?
....like?
I'm honestly asking. A national activity needs a pretty big audience and a pretty big staff.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 25, 2007, 02:50:06 AM
How come there aren't more national special activities geared towards seniors? Other than the National Emergency Services Academy and Hawk Mountain and the regional/national staff colleges I can't think of any.
I think there could be a "market" for some senior-focused activities.
Because the original intent was to be "National Cadet Special Activities"(NCSA). Thats actually the name of the program. A few years ago, they started letting Senior Members participate and it has grown into what it is today. But when I was a cadet, Senior didnt participate as much as you see today. hawk Mountain, Blue Beret were all strickly for cadets.
I wish there were activities similar to NCSA for Senior Members, but then I guess we do have them, they are just not called NCSA and they are not as Hooah. Lets see, we have Region Staff College, National Staff College, the National Convention etc. They are not as sexy as Hawk Mountain or PJOC, but they are special activities for senior members
I don't see any possibility or need for something for seniors that would have hundreds of them -- that would just end up being a series of tours, which while interesting wouldn't serve much purpose.
How about an AFRCC special activity which could have the traditional inland SAR course and perhaps a few other relevant activities along with the opportunity to have CAP members standing watches alongside the AFRCC SAR controllers?
How about doing something in conjunction with Red Flag?
Just about any AF activity involving the planing and tracking of multiple aircraft could have benefit to CAP members. Perhaps spending time with one of the Rescue Wings.
Maybe there are some very short-term AF courses that could be of use to CAP members where they might open up a slot or two for CAP personnel.
Because everyone in CAP isnt interested in ES would be my guess. But I dont know
Senior Activities:
- Region/Wing Commander's Course
National Staff College
Region Staff College
Inspector General Staff College
Chaplain Staff College
National PAO Course
AFRCC SMC Course
Inland SAR School
National Check Pilot Standardization Course
Flight Clinics
NTC ARCHER Operator Course
The only one of those that I would personally consider being in the same "spirit" as almost all of the cadet courses might be the inland sar school. The rest are just more CAP-focused training courses.
Flight clinics though? Thats an unreasonable stretch.
NTC ARCHER Operator Course? Selection is currently very tight, considering that there's only 16 GA-8s (and associated ARCHER platforms) throughout CAP. I don't think that would fall under a 'special activity' per se.
Region/Wing King Charm School? Only if you get those coveted eagles...
We have talked about doing a Senior member flight academy. Brining in private pilots, and depending on their experience and hours get them their instrument, or Commercial license. Either could easily be done in a week with a solid core of instructors
Here is the problem.......Do I want to take a week off of work for a CAP SENIOR MEMBER special activity, or go to Hawaii? Do I want to save my vacation time for one of Cap's required courses (RSC, etc) or go a Senior Member special activity?
My Choice, Hawaii this year, next year Region staff.
(Get my drift??) Some members are not part of the RETIRED (over 62) year group. We have to pick and choose activity participation based on when we can take vacation, and other like obligations. I wish I could devote more time to CAP because I collect Social security and a pension, BUT I am not that old yet.
No Offense to those "older" (More experienced) members!
mikey, your point is valid, but for the wrong reasons.
Life is choice. There are many of us who would see a trip to Hawaii as tortuous in comparison to HMRSS or NESA. I don't understand the connection between age and participation.
With regards to senior activities as an idea, they are already happening, however the hard fast reality is that it is difficult enough to get seniors to participate past dinner, let alone overnight or for a full week.
I still haven't seen a suggestion for a senior nat activity which isn't already being done locally and would be better nationally.
I don't think you need a full work week to have a "special" activity.
I did suggest several types of activities (obviously not fully fleshed-out proposals) that don't have any local equivalent that I'm aware of.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 25, 2007, 04:21:54 PM
The only one of those that I would personally consider being in the same "spirit" as almost all of the cadet courses might be the inland sar school. The rest are just more CAP-focused training courses.
Flight clinics though? Thats an unreasonable stretch.
Not really. Again, you assume the whole premise for CAP is around ES. Its not. And inactuality, NESA is not the normal cadet Special activity. COS, PJOC, UPTFC, and NFA's are normal cadet activities. Hawk Mountain just recently became a special activity. It used to be strickly a PAWG thing.
Too many people want to make CAP into a Combat EMS organization. We are an aviation organization and a military organization. Thoese are our first priorities. Therefore I believe activities need to be geared in that directionand "if: we have money and time left over then we can give cadets ES experiences. But it should NEVER be our primary concern when it comes to the cadet program.
This is just my opinion from someone who has been inCAP since age 15 in 1984. I realize that this board has a lot of ES and EMT people on here. SO I hope we can just agree to disagree.
I'm sorry, but the senior program exists for two reasons - ES and support of the cadet program.
Anything else stems from the above, and the sole purpose for the majority of senior members in this organization is ES activity.
You can read us the charter all day long, however the USAF would not provide us with the largest private fleet of aircraft just to "promote general aviation", nor for the sole purpose of orientation rides.
Seniors involved in the CP would already be attending or supporting existing NCSA's, and those not would be looking for ES-centric training or activities.
QuoteAgain, you assume the whole premise for CAP is around ES.
How did you get that? How about reading what I post? Because I suggested some ES-focused special activities doesn't mean that is what I beleive CAP is all about.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 26, 2007, 12:02:18 AM
QuoteAgain, you assume the whole premise for CAP is around ES.
How did you get that? How about reading what I post? Because I suggested some ES-focused special activities doesn't mean that is what I beleive CAP is all about.
I've responding to Fly's assertions that CAP is or should not be ES-centric for seniors.
For seniors not supporting the cadet program, there's not a whole lot else to do. Someone will invariably shout "AE!", except that most of our AE activity is part of the CP, and what's left is mostly to support pilots or GA, but is a fairly small part of the program.
There are, of course, pockets and worthwhile activities, but they are by no means the core of the program, and would dry up without the ES need for the planes.
I was quoting flyguy, not you.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 25, 2007, 11:53:13 PM
I'm sorry, but the senior program exists for two reasons - ES and support of the cadet program.
Anything else stems from the above, and the sole purpose for the majority of senior members in this organization is ES activity.
You can read us the charter all day long, however the USAF would not provide us with the largest private fleet of aircraft just to "promote general aviation", nor for the sole purpose of orientation rides.
Seniors involved in the CP would already be attending or supporting existing NCSA's, and those not would be looking for ES-centric training or activities.
I am not trying to be argumentative at all. But Ithink its all in your perspective.
Its all good though
Not to mention the fact that it seems like we don't even know who we're arguing with! :D
;D
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on November 25, 2007, 04:27:19 PM
NTC ARCHER Operator Course? Selection is currently very tight, considering that there's only 16 GA-8s (and associated ARCHER platforms) throughout CAP. I don't think that would fall under a 'special activity' per se.
Region/Wing King Charm School? Only if you get those coveted eagles...
Keep in mind that attendance to Cadet Special Acts is competitive.
Nobody asked about "Senior Special Acts that anyone with a pulse can attend." I was just listing what was out there.
In my book, if it's something out of the normal range of CAP training, at least three or four days in length that you have to travel to, then I see it as a special act.
And the more exclusive the acivity, the more "special" that special act is, no?
Yep - and doesn't the Archer school qualify as a SPEC-ACT in that the insignia can be worn in the same space as the NCSA space on the uniform?
I've never heard of the ARCHER school.
no one has suggested anything yet! I am pretty lame, I have nothing to suggest, but two pages now, I thought there would be at least one new school or activity idea.
Quote from: flyguy06 on November 26, 2007, 03:54:25 AM
I've never heard of the ARCHER school.
https://tests.cap.af.mil/ops/archer_training/archer_hsi_tech/index.cfm
Archer training is three steps.
1) Take and pass the online course - by no means a simple step, a lot of physics and advanced concepts regarding wave radiation, etc.
2) Receive approval by Wing and Region to attend the 4-day training at Maxwell.
3) Take and pass the 4-day course.
Just 1 & 2 kick most people.
How do you get time off of work to attend a four day course.
Yeah, if physics is involved that one course that isnt in my future ;D
Quote from: flyguy06 on November 26, 2007, 06:13:37 AM
How do you get time off of work to attend a four day course.
Yeah, if physics is involved that one course that isnt in my future ;D
Vacation time, flex time, etc., considering NESA MAS for 2007.
If an idea for a S/A for Seniors need be submitted, then let me unveil:
CAP COMMAND
This activity will have two Tracks: PENTAGON and MAXWELL
Each Two to Five Days in length.
TRACK ONE: Think the Cadet National Leadership Tour
Track one will house Seniors at the distinguished Andrews AFB. Members will dine at the Base Golf Course each morning to be followed with a bus ride to the Pentagon. There they will recieve a tour of the top offices of the USAF/USA/USN HQ Sections, and maybe see the Communications Signals area / WarRoom/ Command Center. Lunches will be at the Pentagon O-Club/ Officers Chow Hall. Tour Guided by Staff from CAP-USAF? As we will be overwhelmed by "Stars" an appearance by our own CAP Generals should be encouraged.
General Courter can then commense to arm wrestle an Air Force One Star.
Pictures may be taken showing the Senior Member seated at the Desk of the AF Chief of Staff. The SECAF may then be bombarded with requests for more funding. A bus ride to the Hill will then include a tour and bombarding Congress for fundage.
Dinner at the Capitol Chow Hall.
Other events: White House Tour, Arlington Cemetary, National Air and Space Museum.
Track two: Maxwell:
Members will be housed at Maxwell VOQ, recieve tour of NHQ, meet all of National Staff, get the chance to ask questions, mingle. Tour the CAP-USAF offices, meet the CAP-USAF /CC . Tour other Air University Buildings, maybe sit in on some lectures at one of the classes? - AWC/SOS etc... this might show the students how CAP could be a force multiplier within CONUS. etc...
Meals at Golf Course, O-Club Etc...
Round of Golf with NHQ staff etc.
SECOND S/A IDEA:
AF History Round Robin:
Seniors meet at location to be determined, DAY ONE: are USAF-airlifted to Washington DC for Tour of National Air and Space Museum. Guided by USAF Vets, and/or CAP National Historians. RON at Andrews AFB
DAY TWO: Airlifted to W/P AFB in Ohio for tour of USAF Museum by USAF veteran types OR CAP Historians. RON: Wright-Patterson
Day THREE: Airlifted to Davis Monthan AFB for tour of Boneyard. RON
Day Four: Airlifted to Cheyenne Mountain for tour of SAC and AF Academy
RON
Day FIVE: Go home.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on November 26, 2007, 09:00:12 AMDay Four: Airlifted to Cheyenne Mountain for tour of SAC and AF Academy
NORAD's inside Cheyenne Mountain. STRATCOM (what used to be SAC) is at Offutt AFB.
Looking at the posts, I really wonder what would be the purpose of the "Senior Special Activities." I think more Seniors are geared more towards training activities than tours & luncheons.
Most of us are limited on vacation time, and have to make the days off we take for CAP count.
Nonetheless, any RON CAP outing is a great opportunity to get away from the usual grind and do what we like to do.
SAR-EMT has good ideas for the activity. But I see several possible problems. First USAF airlift is almost a thing of the past. While HQ CAP-USAF may be able to get a C-130 long enough for activities he mentions, chances are minimal. And how many C-130's would be required to pick up members throughout the country? If airlift is unavailable. the cost of air fare, plus VOQ at $26 a night plus meals means about $1000 out of pocket for any four day activity. And when I tried a couple of years ago to get BOQ/VOQ rooms at W/P in Ohio, I was told that they are not available for CAP due to the limited number of rooms.
The Maxwell trip probably would be best for the average CAP member since most have no idea what happens in that building on S. Haskell (I had 4 wisdom teeth pulled in that building when it was base hospital) It would give the average member an insight as to how CAP-USAF and the corporate offices actually work.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on November 26, 2007, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on November 26, 2007, 09:00:12 AMDay Four: Airlifted to Cheyenne Mountain for tour of SAC and AF Academy
NORAD's inside Cheyenne Mountain. STRATCOM (what used to be SAC) is at Offutt AFB.
You are right of course, its just that in my mind they are one and the same.