CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: Nomex Maximus on November 20, 2007, 12:27:50 AM

Title: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Nomex Maximus on November 20, 2007, 12:27:50 AM


Spot landing competition, New Hudson, MI. I landed exactly on the spot... unfortuantely, it was my practice landing. The two for credit weren't as close.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: SarDragon on November 20, 2007, 01:22:14 AM
Isn't that kind of activity proscribed by CAPR 60-1?

2-4. Prohibited Uses of CAP Aircraft. The following uses of CAP aircraft are prohibited:

e. Flying in air shows unless authorized in writing by the Executive Director.

m. Any activity for hire, lease, rent, profit or reward, except that CAP corporate aircraft may be furnished to CAP-USAF liaison offices and State Directors under government contract.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Nomex Maximus on November 20, 2007, 02:14:39 AM
Well... it was a funded AF training mission...
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: SarDragon on November 20, 2007, 02:23:06 AM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 20, 2007, 02:14:39 AM
Well... it was a funded AF training mission...

I fail to see the applicability of the intent of the contest to real-life CAP flying. Sound to me like someone got really loose with rule enforcement.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: CFI_Ed on November 20, 2007, 02:58:57 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on November 20, 2007, 02:23:06 AM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 20, 2007, 02:14:39 AM
Well... it was a funded AF training mission...

I fail to see the applicability of the intent of the contest to real-life CAP flying. Sound to me like someone got really loose with rule enforcement.
The Spot Landing competition has been a standard in the SWR SAREVALs for quite sometime now.  It's to demonstrate pilot and crew coordination - the crew determines the exact landing time and transmits that to the AF team monitoring runway, and then the pilot executes the spot landing.   Real life flying calls for the aircrew to land where they want, not where the aircraft winds up.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: SarDragon on November 20, 2007, 05:47:57 AM
OK, learned something. ISTR seeing other discussion of such contests, and the rules against them, but if it's a part of a funded exercise, who am I to complain?
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Eclipse on November 20, 2007, 07:04:32 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on November 20, 2007, 05:47:57 AM
OK, learned something. ISTR seeing other discussion of such contests, and the rules against them, but if it's a part of a funded exercise, who am I to complain?

..you're a member, that's enough.

If you see someone doing something which is against the letter or spirit of a regulation, especially where safety is a factor, you should speak up. 

I would have.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: RiverAux on November 20, 2007, 11:00:32 PM
The rule is against flying in an airshow.  A contest like this isn't an airshow necessarily. 
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: star1151 on November 21, 2007, 06:22:30 AM
Maybe it was the "m. Any activity for hire, lease, rent, profit or reward" he had a problem with, since competition implies reward?
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Eclipse on November 21, 2007, 06:32:37 AM
Postive, well-intentioned experience or not, this IMHO, falls into the space between:

"Watch this..."

and

"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."

Usually anything that falls in between the above is hard to defend in a hearing room.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: SarDragon on November 21, 2007, 07:00:32 AM
Quote from: star1151 on November 21, 2007, 06:22:30 AM
Maybe it was the "m. Any activity for hire, lease, rent, profit or reward" he had a problem with, since competition implies reward?

Thank you. Someone else noticed that.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: floridacyclist on November 21, 2007, 01:27:25 PM
Under your interpretation of M., it seems that ribbons given for finds, saves, and flying cadets around would be verboten as well. I'm pretty sure they are referring to monetary rewards.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: star1151 on November 21, 2007, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on November 21, 2007, 01:27:25 PM
Under your interpretation of M., it seems that ribbons given for finds, saves, and flying cadets around would be verboten as well. I'm pretty sure they are referring to monetary rewards.

Nah, I think that falls under "except that CAP corporate aircraft may be furnished to CAP-USAF liaison offices and State Directors under government contract."

(What can I say, I'm a CFI....interpreting regulations is a hobby)
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Monty on November 21, 2007, 02:54:25 PM
Did somebody just mentions ribbons again?

Gosh, I think some of the most well-intentioned people can be found around many of these CAP forum boards, but must every situation seemingly devolve into a uniforms discussion?

Not a barb, merely a point of interest to ensure that outsiders don't think that uniforms and trinkets are the heart of our matters and our organization.

:)
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Pylon on November 21, 2007, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: Active Monty on November 21, 2007, 02:54:25 PM
Did somebody just mentions ribbons again?

Gosh, I think some of the most well-intentioned people can be found around many of these CAP forum boards, but must every situation seemingly devolve into a uniforms discussion?

Not a barb, merely a point of interest to ensure that outsiders don't think that uniforms and trinkets are the heart of our matters and our organization.

:)

Great point Monty!  I'm going to recommend you for a ribbon for that....   >:D ;D
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 05:19:38 PM
This thread has drifted and needs to be immediately locked.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: ♠SARKID♠ on November 21, 2007, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 05:19:38 PM
This thread has drifted and needs to be immediately locked.

Well before that happens, congratulations Nomex! I'm glad we have skilled pilots like yourself in our ranks!
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: flynd94 on November 21, 2007, 06:40:06 PM
folks, you all need to loosen up and, remove the stick from your arse.  Last time I flew a CD mission in CAWG, my cohort (CAWG/DOV) and, I had a contest.  We alternated who was PIC and, had a landing contest.  Pick a point on the runway and, hit it.  No dragging it in, flying a normal pattern.  It happens all the time. 

Darn, I think all you want to do is take the fun out of CAP!!!!!

KS

PS-maybe I should turn in my wings and check pilot status
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: floridacyclist on November 21, 2007, 06:43:59 PM
Congrats Nomex....that took skill which we should all be in constant pursuit of.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 07:41:45 PM
Might be the last time I fly until spring... weather in MI becomes almost non-stop low overcast / rain / snow for weeks on end and I am not yet instrument rated.

Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: star1151 on November 22, 2007, 01:20:29 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on November 21, 2007, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 05:19:38 PM
This thread has drifted and needs to be immediately locked.

Well before that happens, congratulations Nomex! I'm glad we have skilled pilots like yourself in our ranks!

Technically it's something every pilot *should* be able to do...
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: A.Member on November 22, 2007, 05:49:18 AM
Good job Nomex.  Keep working at it. <thumbsup>

I agree with flynd94's comments.  I too am pretty disappointed with some of the negative comments here.  I can only guess that they come primarily from non-pilots.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Nomex Maximus on November 22, 2007, 01:47:19 PM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 05:19:38 PM
This thread has drifted and needs to be immediately locked.

That was a joke. You all can make this or any thread as irrelevant as you wish, see the disclaimer below.
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: Ricochet13 on November 22, 2007, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on November 21, 2007, 05:19:38 PM
This thread has drifted and needs to be immediately locked.
Nice job Nomex!  Wanted to attend myself, but just couldn't get family affairs completed in time. 

Don't be too discouraged by the "hanger lawyers".  I've noticed a tendency throughout the threads here to lean more toward the "don't, can't, shouldn't, etc" rather than being more encouraging. 

Excellent work though!  I'd fly with you anytime.  A proficient pilot is more than likely to be a safe pilot as they've taken extra time to be "better in the air".   ;D
Title: Re: Nomex Nails It
Post by: NIN on November 22, 2007, 11:32:32 PM
I read that and said "Hey, awesome, someone is actually doing some gauging of pilots against a standard instead of 'Hey, wow, you didn't break the plane this time' as an objective measure of success."

Spot landing contests are not disallowed per the regs unless you want to somehow interpret the "reward" part as "This plaque I just got from my wing commander is a reward.."  That's an AWFULLY loose interpretation of "reward."    If we want to read things that strictly, then "Top Prop" awards, commanders commendations for flying, etc, etc, etc, are surely disallowed in CAP, or then the flying that got them should be, right?

Now, flying a CAP plane in the local FBO's spot landing contest with 50 other local pilots that had a $50 purse would probably be a no-go.  Or flying some kind of an XC easter egg hunt with a $1,000 prize at the end...

That's a REWARD. 

CAP pilots doing a little "I flew better than you" as part of training is NOT.

PS. Nomex, what squadron are you with? I definitely need to tilt a couple with you the next time I'm back home.