CAP Talk

Hate to seagull on this, but thought I'd put it up while I remembered it.

Question: Should decorations from legitimately recognized State Guard organizations be worn on Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

Made it a poll so that I could more easily track aye's and nay's.

No - while I am proud of my ANG State awards, it just makes life too complex.

No.

Are CAP ribbons permitted on State Guard uniforms?

In some, yes, CAP ribbons are permitted.  I believe Maryland's Defense Force permits them, for example, below MD awards.

Since an award with ribbon in one state may be different design for the same award in another state, it would be to confusing to allow SDF ribbons on CAP uniform. CAP ribbons are awarded by National Regulation whereas state ribbons differ from state to state.

IMO, awards from state military departments for National Guard or State Guard members should not be permitted, as they typically are not worn when on "federal service."

Is the State Guard considered "U.S. Armed Forces" for the purpose of promotions in CAP?  You know, where if you were a RM Captain, you get promoted to Captain in CAP.  If a State Guard promotion will result in a promotion in CAP, then you should be able to wear there ribbons.  If not, then you shouldn't.

I only have opinions on this, so if anyone has any documentation that answers the promotion question, please post it.

Quote from: NAYBOR on November 13, 2007, 10:04:21 PM
In some, yes, CAP ribbons are permitted.  I believe Maryland's Defense Force permits them, for example, below MD awards.

So theres not even a standard accross the State Guard organizations accross the country........

Heck no: CAP awards enough blingage as it is.

I don't think we allow state-level NG awards to be worn on uniforms, so I can't see any justification for allowing SDF awards (which would actually be equivalent to state-level NG awards) either. 

Wow, lot of votes in a short time. Ironic, considering that the State Guard person that showed up tonight didn't even ask. But I'm glad to get responses.

I'm not going to lock voting yet, figure I'll wait another day or so. Even though there seems to be an overwhelming "No", I'm willing to give some folks that haven't checked in lately a chance to cast their vote.

If CAP ends up under the Air National Guard, YES.

If CAP remains a purely-federal force, NO.

Same as the Air Force, in my opinion.

Do all states have their own guard? I've never heard of the Minnesota State Guard... but they may have never heard of Minnesota Wing Civil Air Patrol either!

-Ace

No, not all have them.  Only about 23 states have State Defense Forces/State Guards/State Military Reserve.

Originally I said no, but after thinking about it I don't see why we couldn't allow members to wear their highest award from an approved list of SDF, CGAUX, prior  ROTC, etc...  I don't see the harm in allowing another spot in the rack for one of those.

Quote from: jaybird512 on November 14, 2007, 09:56:34 PM
Originally I said no, but after thinking about it I don't see why we couldn't allow members to wear their highest award from an approved list of SDF, CGAUX, prior  ROTC, etc...  I don't see the harm in allowing another spot in the rack for one of those.

Believe it or not, this is actually the best reasoned compromise on this matter I can think of.

Quote from: Major Carrales on November 15, 2007, 02:23:56 AM

Quote from: jaybird512 on November 14, 2007, 09:56:34 PM
Originally I said no, but after thinking about it I don't see why we couldn't allow members to wear their highest award from an approved list of SDF, CGAUX, prior  ROTC, etc...  I don't see the harm in allowing another spot in the rack for one of those.

Believe it or not, this is actually the best reasoned compromise on this matter I can think of.

Why do we need a compromise on this issue?

Why should a former ROTC cadet be allowed to wear ribbons? Does that mean I can wear my AFJROTC ribbons too?

State Guards don't even have standards between different states. Why do we have to recongize what might, in effect, be an honorary or shot gun milita organization?

As for the Coast Guard Aux, unless the award is from the Coast Guard itself, why should we allow Auxiliarist to wear a ribbon? I mean, the PUC from Katrina is one thing, but what else?

We're our own organization. Recognizing military awards is one thing, we are quasi attached to the Air Force.

National Guard Awards and Ribbons should be allowed on the CAP uniform.  Heck, they would be allowed on the TPU right, since they are not considered military decorations by CAPNHQ??

QuoteAs for the Coast Guard Aux, unless the award is from the Coast Guard itself, why should we allow Auxiliarist to wear a ribbon? I mean, the PUC from Katrina is one thing, but what else?

FYI, it is very routine for CG Auxies to receive "real" CG award ribbons in addition to the Aux-specific ribbons and awards.  Besides the service-wide awards (911 ribbon, Katrina), they are usually various sorts of "team" awards for big operations of one kind or another. 

Just one of the perks of being an Auxiliary with a capitol "A".

Quote from: JThemann on November 15, 2007, 05:03:45 PM

Quote from: Major Carrales on November 15, 2007, 02:23:56 AM

Quote from: jaybird512 on November 14, 2007, 09:56:34 PM
Originally I said no, but after thinking about it I don't see why we couldn't allow members to wear their highest award from an approved list of SDF, CGAUX, prior  ROTC, etc...  I don't see the harm in allowing another spot in the rack for one of those.

Believe it or not, this is actually the best reasoned compromise on this matter I can think of.

Why do we need a compromise on this issue?

Because someone brought it up and we're discussing it.

Quote
Why should a former ROTC cadet be allowed to wear ribbons? Does that mean I can wear my AFJROTC ribbons too?

Just an example, but no it doesn't necessarily mean that JROTC would be included.

Quote
State Guards don't even have standards between different states. Why do we have to recongize what might, in effect, be an honorary or shot gun milita organization?

We don't.  As I suggested, there would have to be an approved list of organizations that were credible enough to let them put a little ribbon on one of our shirts.

Quote
As for the Coast Guard Aux, unless the award is from the Coast Guard itself, why should we allow Auxiliarist to wear a ribbon? I mean, the PUC from Katrina is one thing, but what else?

Because it was just suggested that it would be nice to recognize someone from another auxiliary, much like our own.  These organizations are on about an equal level to us just like the services are on equal levels with each other and allow members from other services to wear earned awards from that on their current uniform.

Quote
We're our own organization. Recognizing military awards is one thing, we are quasi attached to the Air Force.

Two separate points there.  We are our own organization, an auxiliary volunteer type, and also attached to the Air Force.  There are other programs on our same level.

Quote from: MIKE on November 15, 2007, 09:43:34 PM
Just one of the perks of being an Auxiliary with a capitol "A".

I have always wondered why the Air Force stopped awarding us U.S.Air Force ribbons, they did in WW2, I mean we should at least get the 'Fickled Finger of Fate" award., I especially liked the "order of the Palm .from Mr. Roberts!!!

QuoteI have always wondered why the Air Force stopped awarding us U.S.Air Force ribbons, they did in WW2, I mean we should at least get the 'Fickled Finger of Fate" award., I especially liked the "order of the Palm .from Mr. Roberts!!!

I want to know why the Air Force got rid of the Good Conduct Medal!

Tags - MIKE

Quote from: Cecil DP on November 16, 2007, 05:34:35 AM
I want to know why the Air Force got rid of the Good Conduct Medal

You should have yours!  Anyway......they figure there is no reason to award someone for good behavior, when they should be behaving that way anyway!