Why can't Vanguard be like every other online clothing store I've ever been to and have one listing for each item, and then after you choose that item, let you select color, size etc? It is incredibly unwieldy to look at individual mini-photos and item descriptions for every single size and color of each uniform while trying to find the one you want.
Are they really that inept?
Yes!
But isn't that how Vanguard works on the military side. Just like you described above? They are treating the CAP business as pennies, it don't matter to them. Anyway, they are making all their money off shipping. They are scamming all of us!
I'll just add my two cents (since many others have weighted in on other posts) that it is nearly unbelievable how many misspellings and missing pictures accompany listings on Vanguard's site. Being a fairly new member of 4 months, it leaves me with a poor impression along with giving me severe reservations about steering future prospects/new members to such a poorly organized site.
Quote from: Indaweeds on September 22, 2007, 07:39:36 PM
I'll just add my two cents (since many others have weighted in on other posts) that it is nearly unbelievable how many misspellings and missing pictures accompany listings on Vanguard's site. Being a fairly new member of 4 months, it leaves me with a poor impression along with giving me severe reservations about steering future prospects/new members to such a poorly organized site.
I will, however, point out that Vanguard is the official place from which to get CAP items. They are professional in their sales to US military and should extend the same respect to us as customers. (note the HOCK SHOP does exist as well)
The monopoly they have goes to demonstrate why competition in a free market is necessary to our Republic. If we had other choices...we could likely chose elsewhere.
Vanguard has sent me lots of stuff that is out of date - smurf colored flight suit when I ordered navy blue, "CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes when I asked for "US CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes... and then they don't stock hats larger than 7 5/8 which is a nuisance for me as I have a freakishly large head... I have to buy my hats at the uniform store at an AFB.
Like Major Carrales said as well, the Hock Shop
does exist! They always get my U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes right and they do sell a couple of hats
larger than 7 5/8. And who said we had to buy our stuff at Vanguard anyway? If we do not like it, go somewhere else! There is no need to have an silly thread just to complain. :)
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on September 22, 2007, 10:15:50 PM
Vanguard has sent me lots of stuff that is out of date - smurf colored flight suit when I ordered navy blue, "CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes when I asked for "US CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes... and then they don't stock hats larger than 7 5/8 which is a nuisance for me as I have a freakishly large head... I have to buy my hats at the uniform store at an AFB.
The problem with Vanguard (IMHO), is that they are just a little money hungry. They know that they are going to be the only place for that one item (whatever it may be), so they jack the price up, and send you the first thing they grab off of the shelf. They don't seem to care when you call and complain that you ordered something a month ago; they just make up excuses. I try to stay away from Vanguard unless it's something that I absolutely have to have for my BDUs, or TPU. It's times like waiting for my Vanguard order that I think "Maybe the CAP bookstore wasn't so bad......"
Maybe the "new guard" (that we hope is to come) at NHQ will cut loose on some of this availability blocking, if the DoD at large does not back exclusivity for their items, why should CAP do it, when it's painfully obvious that Vanguard just blows.
At the last CAWG conference, the Vanguard display was just awful. A swapmeet south of the border was better class. It was just purely awful. The presentation of the merchandise, etc.
Why other vendors are stifled and the Hock Shop is allowed to continue, they're pretty prominent. Perhaps bad PR to shutter one of their own members?
There are two cadets in my unit waiting for SIMPLE stuff for nearly two months now.
Is this how they treat service members too?
Heck, the Hock has quality issues but at least you get stuff. Even though it too, takes a bit of prodding. It generally does come.
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 22, 2007, 06:36:53 PM
But isn't that how Vanguard works on the military side. Just like you described above? They are treating the CAP business as pennies, it don't matter to them. Anyway, they are making all their money off shipping. They are scamming all of us!
Which is why it's a good idea to combine shopping lists within your unit. Every order I place gets to me with Vanguard having paid more in shipping than I did. It's the little things like that which brighten my day.
What I want to know is why Scamguard is still our official supply depot. Its obvious that they suck, and I'm sure that they know it full well up at nationals. Heck, we STILL havent gotten a correct guidon after 3 #$%^&ing YEARS! (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=582.0) There has to have been enough complaints sent up to nationals to warrant a change in venue...or a swift kick in the [CONNECTION LOST]
Why can't we petition the AF to give us back the CAPMart? They were great! I've never heard anyone complain about them.
There's a reason it was called "Crapmart"...
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 26, 2007, 03:58:26 PM
There's a reason it was called "Crapmart"...
Would you take "Crapmart" of Scamguard though? It's all about who was faster, and lead you down the shorter BS path.
Personally, I tend to go with "none of the above".
Yeah, but Crapmart actually sent me my stuff. Scamguard still owes me a white corporate shirt or a refund for it.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 26, 2007, 04:31:12 PM
Yeah, but Crapmart actually sent me my stuff. Scamguard still owes me a white corporate shirt or a refund for it.
Good luck to you sir. The Browns have a better chance at a Super Bowl than you do getting money back, or the shirt.
I remember reading this thread and thinking, "I've never had a problem with them." Well, I just had my first "Scamguard" experience.
I ordered a blue polo and the order has been marked as "pending" since Sunday. I decided to call today and change the order to add embroidery of my name. Since the order is "pending" it shouldn't be a problem, right?
Well, I got a rude - "No changes to on-line orders." Then I asked if I could cancel and reorder with the embroidery - "No - your credit card has been charged, so you'll have to receive the item and return it."
What a joke. I can't believe the lack of customer service!
Anyone have a good source to embroider the blue polo?
Actually, I've never had a problem with them (other than the high shipping price for even minor items)...just hate their web site.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 26, 2007, 03:17:56 PM
Why can't we petition the AF to give us back the CAPMart? They were great! I've never heard anyone complain about them.
The CAPMART was had good customer service, but they would intoduce something sell it and then claim it was illegal to wear on the uniform. Anyone remember the NSC badges, grey corperate neckties, etc. Besides they went from being a moneymaker to a big loser (especially when they had to absorb the Supply Depot's losses). Vanguard which actually does make the insignia seemed like the logical choice by cutting out the middleman. I wonder though why you can buy CG Aux insignia in the Clothing Sales Store, but not the AF Aux insignia?
It's time to add my .02.
I just got off the phone with them for the second time in as many weeks about an order I placed.
I placed the order on the 10th and a few days later, saw that my CC had been charged. So, last week on the 20th, I called to check on the status since I hadn't seen it on my doorstep and the website still said "Processing".
The young lady I spoke with told me that I wouldn't be able to see the status on line for phone orders. I told her that I hadn't placed a phone order, that I had done it on line on the 10th. That should have been my first clue that something was wrong. She proceeded to tell me that everything should be in stock, but that it takes 10 days to process name plates and so, it should ship out on 9/27. Being the tail end of my lunch hour, I didn't have time to argue with her math. I got off the phone.
Today, I called to just make sure that everything was in stock and that it would ship out tomorrow. I talked to a nice enough guy who looked up all of my items and everything was in stock until we get to the last item (L/S Aviator Shirt 18 1/2 neck.) That item is out of stock. I politely asked when they were expecting more of them in. He tells me that he sees a large shipment should be coming in for 11/1. That's right, not for over another month. He then told me that it only takes about 3 days to get a name tape made and so everything else should be ready to ship. He took my number and asked to call me back.
Well, he called me back, only to find out that the Name Plate is on backorder as well. I was then transferred to the CAP Division Manager to talk with him about my thoughts / concerns. The manager was also a nice enough gentleman. He told me that he was expecting the shipment of NamePlates next week because he received a shipment of the AF ones and not the Corporate ones. He also said that he would be calling the Shirt supplier and find out what they had in stock for them already so that he could take care of me. I told him to just take both those items off the order as I would get them somewhere else.
He went through my order with me, and asked about cutouts and grade since I hadn't ordered them (I already have those items). He then asked me about braid for the Corporate Service Coat. I said, "What?!?" I thought it came with the jacket. He said, no, it doesn't. I explained to him that nowhere on the website does it indicate the braid needed to be ordered separately, and that they should fix that. Either include it with the jacket or put a note in the description about needing to order item # XXXX for braid. He appreciated the comment about the website.
As gracefully as I could muster, I said, while we're talking about the website, why is it there are 50 pictures of the same thing. Is there a chance the web folks can do drop down menus, etc. He told me that they were working on it and that the site should reflect that within the next week or so.
Here's to hoping that I get all of my stuff tomorrow as promised and that the website looks better by the end of next week.... If anyone wants the names of the folks I talked with PM for details.
The AF has nothing to do with Vanguard, CAPMart, whatever. It was entirely a CAP decision to close CAPMART and go with Vanguard.
RiverAux, to address your statement, I was told that AF cutbacks was the reason that CAPMart was closing. Either way, it would be nice to have CAPMart back. At least they had an updated website.
2d Lt M. Sherrod, good luck to you sir. There have been many times I've placed an order with Vanguard only to find out that the primary item I ordered had been on back order for a month. It was the same deal with my TPU service coat. They didn't have my size, and never bothered to inform me of this. Then it was a nametag issue.
Actually, the reasons for closing CAPMart were laid out pretty well in the National Board minutes.
CAP Mart was just about as bad in terms of their web site structure and unfortunately Vanguard decided to use the same sort of categories.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 26, 2007, 11:27:43 PM
Actually, the reasons for closing CAPMart were laid out pretty well in the National Board minutes.
CAP Mart was just about as bad in terms of their web site structure and unfortunately Vanguard decided to use the same sort of categories.
Sir, do you know where or if I could find a copy of those minutes?
Quote from: 2d Lt M. Sherrod on September 26, 2007, 08:29:22 PM
... I talked to a nice enough guy who looked up all of my items and everything was in stock until we get to the last item (L/S Aviator Shirt 18 1/2 neck.) That item is out of stock. I politely asked when they were expecting more of them in. He tells me that he sees a large shipment should be coming in for 11/1.
18 1/2 huh? See here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2489.msg45740#msg45740
They told me they'd be in at the beginning of August...same shirt. I just had them switch it to an 18 and got an extender button for my member :)
Isn't it amazing how "the good old days" seem so much better than whatever the status quo is? Even when it is not true.
I recall this exact same conversation a few years back only entitled... "The CAP Bookstore Catalog was so much better than CAPMART." Please people, CAPMART was not the "paradise" some of you remember.
Let's be fair, our present problems are our own and the past was just as bad...or, in some, cases worse.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 26, 2007, 11:46:37 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on September 26, 2007, 11:27:43 PM
Actually, the reasons for closing CAPMart were laid out pretty well in the National Board minutes.
CAP Mart was just about as bad in terms of their web site structure and unfortunately Vanguard decided to use the same sort of categories.
Sir, do you know where or if I could find a copy of those minutes?
They're in e-services, but I couldn't tell you which one it was -- you'd have to look back through a year or so to find them. Sorry.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 27, 2007, 02:46:22 AM
They're in e-services, but I couldn't tell you which one it was -- you'd have to look back through a year or so to find them. Sorry.
No problem. Thank you for the start.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on September 27, 2007, 01:13:12 AM
Quote from: 2d Lt M. Sherrod on September 26, 2007, 08:29:22 PM
... I talked to a nice enough guy who looked up all of my items and everything was in stock until we get to the last item (L/S Aviator Shirt 18 1/2 neck.) That item is out of stock. I politely asked when they were expecting more of them in. He tells me that he sees a large shipment should be coming in for 11/1.
18 1/2 huh? See here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2489.msg45740#msg45740
They told me they'd be in at the beginning of August...same shirt. I just had them switch it to an 18 and got an extender button for my member :)
Yes, I remember this thread. And the entire time I was on the phone with him that was lurking in the back of my mind. The problem I have now is that the "other place" only has 18 1/2 with a long sleeve (36/37) instead of the 32/33 that I need. So, I guess I'll have to go to my local pilot shop and pick one up. I'll let you all know if a package from Vanguard shows up today as promised.
I've managed to not buy a single thing from Vanguard in a long time. Last time I bought something was probably when I promoted to SFO. Since then I've found people with stockpiles (and patience to deal with Vanguard) and some very awesome friends here on CAPTalk.
As I sit here reminiscing, remember the days when the CAP Bookstore and the early days of CAPMart had *free* shipping? :-\ I do miss those days.
And CAPMart may have had it's issues, but I never heard of someone recieving a flightsuit nameplate with "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT" printed on it instead of the wings. I've seen and heard it multiple times with Vanguard, even as of recent.
So why doesn't someone report them to the BBB? A majority of people on this thread don't care for Vanguard, and there are more than enough complaints to shake them up, and hopefully get them flying right.
CAP AIRPLANE PILOT? Ok, not that's ridiculous. Which kind of pilot? :D
No lie. I ordered one for a cadet in my unit who had just gotten her private and passed her F5, and clearly spelled out "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT WINGS, THE WINGS, NOT THE WORDS" But alas....
And, it took 3 months, 10 phone calls, 5 emails, promise of my first born son, and a small miracle from the man upstairs to get it corrected.
I have a picture of it on my other computer, I'll hafta post it.
Quote from: SJFedor on September 27, 2007, 02:01:45 PM
No lie. I ordered one for a cadet in my unit who had just gotten her private and passed her F5, and clearly spelled out "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT WINGS, THE WINGS, NOT THE WORDS" But alas....
And, it took 3 months, 10 phone calls, 5 emails, promise of my first born son, and a small miracle from the man upstairs to get it corrected.
I have a picture of it on my other computer, I'll hafta post it.
It's true! I saw them! I know of other people who had this happen too.
Where are the pictures, Fedor?
Well, the package did arrive. I got the Service Coat and it's the right size. It's a good thing that I know my size. The "free" silver braid was there. As well as the other items that I had ordered. Now, we'll see how long it takes to get the shirt and the nameplate. It doesn't look like they were "credited" from the order.
Quote from: 2d Lt M. Sherrod on September 28, 2007, 02:59:52 AM
Well, the package did arrive. I got the Service Coat and it's the right size. It's a good thing that I know my size. The "free" silver braid was there. As well as the other items that I had ordered. Now, we'll see how long it takes to get the shirt and the nameplate. It doesn't look like they were "credited" from the order.
The shirt, I would say probably another two months before they realize that they have a pile of back orders to fill. The nameplate, well good luck. They may start production on that for you after they ship our your shirt.
Quote from: SJFedor on September 27, 2007, 01:38:59 PM
I've managed to not buy a single thing from Vanguard in a long time. Last time I bought something was probably when I promoted to SFO. Since then I've found people with stockpiles (and patience to deal with Vanguard) and some very awesome friends here on CAPTalk.
As I sit here reminiscing, remember the days when the CAP Bookstore and the early days of CAPMart had *free* shipping? :-\ I do miss those days.
And CAPMart may have had it's issues, but I never heard of someone recieving a flightsuit nameplate with "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT" printed on it instead of the wings. I've seen and heard it multiple times with Vanguard, even as of recent.
I SO want to see that!
I pulled this pic off of the Vanguard website...BWAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Resdon111/serving.gif)
False advertising? ;D
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 28, 2007, 02:05:51 PM
False advertising? ;D
Very much so.
Fortunately, the only thing I've ever had to order from Vangaurd was my nametag for my flightsuit. Everything else came from The Hock and I was quite pleased.
Vangaurd first took a month to even process my nametag, then the order just disappeared for some reason, then 2 more weeks to get it the second time I ordered. Fortunately though they sent it with the wings printed, not the words.
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 02:30:34 PM
Fortunately, the only thing I've ever had to order from Vangaurd was my nametag for my flightsuit.
Did it say "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT"? :D :D
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 28, 2007, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 02:30:34 PM
Fortunately, the only thing I've ever had to order from Vangaurd was my nametag for my flightsuit.
Did it say "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT"? :D :D
Fortunately no, see above.
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 28, 2007, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 02:30:34 PM
Fortunately, the only thing I've ever had to order from Vangaurd was my nametag for my flightsuit.
Did it say "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT"? :D :D
Fortunately no, see above.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 28, 2007, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on September 28, 2007, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: jeders on September 28, 2007, 02:30:34 PM
Fortunately, the only thing I've ever had to order from Vangaurd was my nametag for my flightsuit.
Did it say "CAP AIRPLANE PILOT"? :D :D
Fortunately no, see above.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Don't blame you, anything having to do with Scamgaurd is usually funny.
Ok I can honestly say unless its something for my Flight Suit I will use Hock Shop
I placed an order the begining August on Aug 15 I called as my order was still showing as pending it took 45 mins while the receptionist tried to find someone who could help me, upon answering I got a very rude Hello Are you still there, I explained the issue of it still showing as pending.
I was rudely told it takes 7 - 10 weeks to process the order and she asked me what I ordered I proceeded to give her the CAP Item Numbers per the Vanguard Website and was greated with a sigh and well sir I need the names of the Items I don't know the numbers.
At which point I hung up and called NHQ to the person in charge of VG at NHQ spoke with them they called VG and the VG CAP Rep Beth called back got my story again apologized and told me the GM would call me back.
He calls me I explain the issue again he takes the shipping off gives me a free CAP Leather Name Tag for my Flight Suit and I get the order 2nd Day air.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 28, 2007, 01:22:19 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Resdon111/serving.gif)
More accurate representation would be "Serving our nation one customer per day."
Quote from: TNCAP 20 on October 02, 2007, 03:47:16 AM
Ok I can honestly say unless its something for my Flight Suit I will use Hock Shop
I placed an order the begining August on Aug 15 I called as my order was still showing as pending it took 45 mins while the receptionist tried to find someone who could help me, upon answering I got a very rude Hello Are you still there, I explained the issue of it still showing as pending.
I was rudely told it takes 7 - 10 weeks to process the order and she asked me what I ordered I proceeded to give her the CAP Item Numbers per the Vanguard Website and was greated with a sigh and well sir I need the names of the Items I don't know the numbers.
At which point I hung up and called NHQ to the person in charge of VG at NHQ spoke with them they called VG and the VG CAP Rep Beth called back got my story again apologized and told me the GM would call me back.
He calls me I explain the issue again he takes the shipping off gives me a free CAP Leather Name Tag for my Flight Suit and I get the order 2nd Day air.
So in order to get any type of customer service, we have to have the people at the head of the organization breath down their necks? I've never heard of VG ever having to take 7-10 WEEKS to process an order. 7-10 days maybe. I think someone just didn't want to do their job that day. It's cool that you got your leather free, but it still doesn't make up for their customer service.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on October 02, 2007, 12:07:55 PM
...
So in order to get any type of customer service, we have to have the people at the head of the organization breath down their necks?
...
I had to do it once. I inquired with them for over a month about my order, back towards the beginning of their take-over of CAPMart. Eventually, I canceled the order because I was going to be at an AF base and could get the stuff there. They confirmed the cancellation, and the next day, they processed the order, overdrafting my account because it was a checking account I rarely use and I had used the money to buy the stuff at AAFES. I breathed down their necks until they paid off the overdraft fee by giving me "free" stuff. I had NHQ run interference for me in the process.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on September 22, 2007, 10:15:50 PM
Vanguard has sent me lots of stuff that is out of date - smurf colored flight suit when I ordered navy blue, "CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes when I asked for "US CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes... and then they don't stock hats larger than 7 5/8 which is a nuisance for me as I have a freakishly large head... I have to buy my hats at the uniform store at an AFB.
Hey, don't get a big head over this.
Quote from: Grumpy on October 02, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on September 22, 2007, 10:15:50 PM
Vanguard has sent me lots of stuff that is out of date - smurf colored flight suit when I ordered navy blue, "CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes when I asked for "US CIVIL AIR PATROL" tapes... and then they don't stock hats larger than 7 5/8 which is a nuisance for me as I have a freakishly large head... I have to buy my hats at the uniform store at an AFB.
Hey, don't get a big head over this.
Love it! ;D
Just remember you have to file a report in writing with your credit card company within 60 days of the order date to be able to have them (the card company) refund the charge.
You're also required to try to solve the problem without filing the report, so if you haven't received your entire order within 2 weeks - especially if the charge has been posted to your account:
1. Call Vanguard and tell them you will have to file a claim with your credit card company if all items are not received within the next 2 weeks.
2. Two weeks later (appx 1 month into the 60 day period for filing a report) file your complaint. This is the only way to protect your rights. If your written complaint is not RECEIVED by your credit card company BEFORE the 60 days is up, you're out the money.
This includes those "personalized" items that take "7 to 10 weeks" to process. That time frame is way too long to wait to file a complaint with your credit card, but if credit card companies get enough complaints about Vanguard charging for items more than a month before shipping them, then they can put pressure on Vanguard to clean up its act.
A truly reputable company will not charge you for items on back order until they receive the item. They will also not charge for personalized items until they actually personalize them. Turn around time from Charging to Shipping should be less than 2 business days and shipping should not take more than 1 week for anywhere in the lower 48.
Consumers have to stand up and refuse to accept unethical charge first and ship whenever practices that companies like Vanguard think they can get away with.
(My work around for personalized items? I order them without personalization and take them to a while you wait engraver or embroiderer at the local mall. Costs a little more that way until you factor in the headaches and hassles associated with getting something corrected.)
Ordered a set of BBDUs, a Blue utility coverall, and all the assorted bits and pieces that go with them on 26 Sep 07. This included the name tag for the BBDUs and the leather name tag for the coveralls.
It all arrived on 3 Oct 07, normal UPS ground, and to the southwest part of the country. Ordered from them a year ago with the same good results. Some folks just have bad luck...
Quote from: Short Field on October 04, 2007, 05:41:09 PM
Ordered a set of BBDUs, a Blue utility coverall, and all the assorted bits and pieces that go with them on 26 Sep 07. This included the name tag for the BBDUs and the leather name tag for the coveralls.
It all arrived on 3 Oct 07, normal UPS ground, and to the southwest part of the country. Ordered from them a year ago with the same good results. Some folks just have bad luck...
You are probably 1 of maybe 4-5 who have had good luck with them. I know I've had my fair share of bad luch with'em.
Yesterday, I get an unsolicited phone call from VG East. The young lady on the phone lets me know that I still have items on backorder and verifies what those items are. 1) The new corporate brushed metal nameplate 2) The Aviator L/S 18/12 32/33. I told her that was correct. She told me that the nameplate would be in sometime next week and that she had no idea on when the Aviator shirt would be in.
You may recall from an earlier post that I had already been told last week about when these two items should be expected. When she was done talking, I kindly asked for the gentleman that I spoke with last week, since this appeared to be a change in the information that was provided to me previously.
I was put on hold for several minutes until the phone did an automatic ring back on VG's end. Someone else picked up the phone and told me that the person I was waiting for was still on another call and could I leave a message. I said, no, I need to talk with another manager / supervisor. So, I get someone on the phone and I go through exactly what has been happening and let her know that I would be filing a complaint with my CC company as I have already been charged for items that I don't even have an answer as to when I am getting them. The minute I said that, the first person I had been waiting for was magically available.
I got on the phone with this gentleman and went through all of the information that had occurred on the phone call that they initiated. I told him that it was a nice gesture that they were trying to reach out to me since my stuff was on backorder. He told me that they are trying to do that for all of their customers. I then went into the details of exactly what I was told. He informed me that the material for the nameplate only just came in this morning (yesterday) and that it is a 2 day process to make the plate, so, it would be shipped out tomorrow (today) if I still wanted it. He also told me something about the aviator shirts that I have been unable to verify. Apparently, the supplier, Van Hussen sp?, is no longer making 1/2 sizes for anything over a 17 neck due to a lack of demand. VG is allegedly in search of another supplier and that is what the hold up is at this point.
I reminded him that I told him I wanted a refund last week and that it still hadn't happened. He told me that he would refund the cost of the shirt right away and send the nameplate as soon as it was ready.
Well, I received the nameplate in the mail today and it was correct. So, now I am just waiting to see if I get my money back.
Wow Mike, that's some real Bravo Sierra there. I do agree that it was a nice gesture to at least follow up with you to assure you that they haven't forgotten about you. It still doesn't make up for the shirt. I've never heard of Van Haussen making the shirts. I thought it was a company named Aviator. Who knows.
Well I hate to do this because I love a good hate fest, but I haven't had to many problems with vanguard. They have fixed errors in a timely manor, and they have been polite when I worked with them on the phone.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on October 04, 2007, 06:06:45 PM
Wow Mike, that's some real Bravo Sierra there. I do agree that it was a nice gesture to at least follow up with you to assure you that they haven't forgotten about you. It still doesn't make up for the shirt. I've never heard of Van Haussen making the shirts. I thought it was a company named Aviator. Who knows.
Van Heusen is the manufacturer. Aviator is the style. They also sell the Commander and Pilot styles. The differences are in the pockets.
The Commander features two top entry pockets with non-functional flaps.
The Aviator features two flap pockets with pencil slot.
The Pilot shirt is based on the Air Force dress uniform shirt, and features epaulets, mitered bellow pockets with pencil slot, eyelets above left pocket for name badge or wings.
CAP wears the Aviator style.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on October 02, 2007, 12:07:55 PM
[...]
I've never heard of VG ever having to take 7-10 WEEKS to process an order. 7-10 days maybe.
[...]
We're still waiting -- 3 years and counting... We're going for 7-10 Years...
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=582.0
I'd like to see national HQ back off the monopolization of the supplies, seems many fine vendors were making stuff and now we're stuck with Vanslug and the Hackshop.
..and why the hack gets a pass, when ###-____tapes et al were issued C&D is beyond me.
The entire rest of the DoD does not hassle vendors. Why should CAP?
Because this all seemed to start right about the same time the whole 'U.S.' thing came to be.
(which is quite a laugh because .. Brazil stole the whole thing wholesale, 13 starts too!)
..and we ordered a whole mess of tapes from Vanguard. None say "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL", yet folks have them.. so they're coming from somewhere.
(and if it's the hock, and not Vanguard, and surely National has to know that Vanguard is shipping something that we have a sunset date on the uniform to change, and that alone seems really stupid)
Quote from: a2capt on October 07, 2007, 06:00:58 AMThe entire rest of the DoD does not hassle vendors. Why should CAP?
I've wondered this myself, and so far haven't really found out anything useful. It's just personal opinion, but it seemed like someone got in bed with Vanguard.
I can get nametapes for my Army uniform from at least twenty different vendors, and they will all meet the uniform certification standard. Many of those products' quality exceed what you can get in a military clothing. For about the same price or less.
One of the vendors that got the C&D letter would offer tapes for CAP members at the cost of 85 cents. That was nice.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on October 02, 2007, 12:07:55 PM
I've never heard of VG ever having to take 7-10 WEEKS to process an order. 7-10 days maybe.
I ordered a GOLF SHIRT with no personalization and it just now showed up, 8 weeks after I ordered it. As if that wasn't bad enough, I paid for and needed FedEx 2Day and it came UPS Ground (6 days in transit). That doesn't bode well for having to order anything else....
Guys and gals, just don't do business with the big V. I've certainly had my share of issues:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2214.msg38759#msg38759
The Hock Shop is a first rate operation. And.. you can get those leather name badges from other sources. I just takes a bit of digging.
-SeattleSarge
Quote from: SeattleSarge on October 08, 2007, 04:50:52 AM
Guys and gals, just don't do business with the big V. I've certainly had my share of issues:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2214.msg38759#msg38759
The Hock Shop is a first rate operation. And.. you can get those leather name badges from other sources. I just takes a bit of digging.
-SeattleSarge
But are they legal? CAP has rule over the name "Civil Air Patrol" so technically nobody else can produce the badges without their consent. As far as i know (and I dont know much so correct me if i'm wrong) those other source badges are a breach of copyright law.
Once again - there is NO copyright involved.
Further info:
CAP doesn't hold a trademark or copyright, per se, on its items. What it does have is this:
TITLE 36 > Subtitle II > Part B > CHAPTER 403 > Sec. 40306.
Sec. 40306. - Exclusive right to name, insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, marks, and words
The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name ''Civil Air Patrol'' and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.
CAP (the corporation) holds only two trademarks - CAPMART, and WHERE IMAGINATION TAKES FLIGHT. I have found no patents listed. Copyright information is too diverse and numerous for online cataloging.
So thats it, they hold exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol", emblems, descriptive badges, etc.
Great. Hock gets a pass, 1-900-monikers gets the shaft. Still doesn't answer that.
Consistency would be nice.
the inconsistency needs to go. It needs to go back to the 'way it was'. Buy stuff from anywhere. Just like the rest of the services enjoy. Granted, we're an audience of 65,000, give or take a few, but with the amount of churn, (sadly, different topic), we have nearly as many start as leave, though a lot of this is also parents of graduating cadets, who were members too, etc. But .. none the less, several vendors saw it fit to take the time to offer various items we could utilize and along comes National HQ that couldn't get it right on their own, which probably allowed the aftermarket to flourish in the first place, and they foist the big V on us, and they are in many ways no better. Their road show leaves a lot to be desired, they use shipping as a profit center, they're not consistent and clear with their customers, they in effect treat us like the bastard stepchild they are forced to deal with.
OTOH, the Hock is a 'one man operation', and has it's drawbacks, but in as many ways is just as prominent as several other vendors, if not more so, and they got C&D'ed.
My main issue with the Hock Shop is not their ability to deliver, though that has been questioned a tad on this forum, but more so with some of their merchandise and it's consistency with what Vanguard, CAPMart and the bookstore used to send. Which has also been raised, here in this forum.
Maybe a letter writing campaign or such needs to be done to tell National HQ how much discontent, backed up by actual scenarios. We have several within our own ranks. Even the bookstore and CAPMart were not this inept.
Hooray! Vanguard did it agian! They sent me my white aviator shirt!.......7 months after I ordered it!
Quote from: Hawk200 on October 07, 2007, 11:31:27 PM
Quote from: a2capt on October 07, 2007, 06:00:58 AMThe entire rest of the DoD does not hassle vendors. Why should CAP?
CAP is not part of DOD in this regard: as a federally chartered corp, they can hassle all they want.
It's mostly just a scare tactic: you legally own a name when you copyright it.
For vendors, the relatively small market is not worth the hassle...
Nametape tip: some C&D victim companies don't "offer" nametapes, but they do make them if you specifically ask for them. By law, you have the right to request just about whatever you want on personalized embroidery (refer to copyright reference above.)
Perhaps CAP's "strong-arm" approach to competitiors was due to prior leadership (?)
Quote from: O-Rex on October 19, 2007, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on October 07, 2007, 11:31:27 PM
Quote from: a2capt on October 07, 2007, 06:00:58 AMThe entire rest of the DoD does not hassle vendors. Why should CAP?
CAP is not part of DOD in this regard: as a federally chartered corp, they can hassle all they want.
It's mostly just a scare tactic: you legally own a name when you copyright it.
For vendors, the relatively small market is not worth the hassle...
Nametape tip: some C&D victim companies don't "offer" nametapes, but they do make them if you specifically ask for them. By law, you have the right to request just about whatever you want on personalized embroidery (refer to copyright reference above.)
Perhaps CAP's "strong-arm" approach to competitiors was due to prior leadership (?)
I'm not going to try to straighten out the quotes above, but will attempt to address the commentary.
First of all, this is not, and never has been, a copyright issue. Copyrights cover such things a printed material, music, and software, among others. If anything, it is a trademark or service mark issue. As stated in a post above, and in at least one other thread, CAP's legal rights derive from Title 36 of the U.S. Code:
TITLE 36 > Subtitle II > Part B > CHAPTER 403 > Sec. 40306.
Sec. 40306. - Exclusive right to name, insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, marks, and words
The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name ''Civil Air Patrol'' and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.
*****
CAP (the corporation) holds only two trademarks -
CAPMART, and
WHERE IMAGINATION TAKES FLIGHT. I have found no patents listed. Copyright information is too diverse and numerous for online cataloging.
Why The Hock gets a pass on this stuff, I don't know. They may somehow be grandfathered in on something. I do know that, legally, for any company to make CAP branded items, they require a license from CAP. Apparently none of the companies who got C&Ds didn't have a license. Maybe The Hock doe. I don't know.
Vanguard has performed a miracle!!!
I ordered several nametapes and nametags at about 11 pm Monday evening (10/22) and received them in the mail a few minutes ago. I guess the complaints about service are being heard.
Wow, no kidding that is a miracle, sir. Either it's slow at Vanguard these days or they had some with the names in stock. Two weeks has been the standard time frame for anything I've purchased through them, which I've always considered reasonable. Way to go Vanguard!
Quote from: Cecil DP on October 26, 2007, 02:23:15 PM
Vanguard has performed a miracle!!!
I ordered several nametapes and nametags at about 11 pm Monday evening (10/22) and received them in the mail a few minutes ago. I guess the complaints about service are being heard.
What?! I'm going to need to see a disclosure on your bank statements. How much did they pay you to say this? ;) :angel:
Quote from: JC004 on October 26, 2007, 05:15:52 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on October 26, 2007, 02:23:15 PM
Vanguard has performed a miracle!!!
I ordered several nametapes and nametags at about 11 pm Monday evening (10/22) and received them in the mail a few minutes ago. I guess the complaints about service are being heard.
What?! I'm going to need to see a disclosure on your bank statements. How much did they pay you to say this? ;) :angel:
They saw LtCol and MSG in the same signature block and got scared.
I just received my fifth order from Vanguard today (10/26). All items, as ordered, including some personalized items. I sent them a paper order form, and a check, on the 19th. That's a week.
Score:
success stories - 5
horrror stories - 0
I think I will continue to spend the extra 42 cents and a couple of extra days to get this kind of service.
YMMV.
Funny, but I got a personalized Golf Shirt, silver nameplate and TPU jacket in about a week: nothing missing or wrong size (!)
For the most part, I like the Hock, but there is a bit of "caveat emptor:" they do import some of their stuff, and there are some quality inconsistencies.
However their "sta-brite" flight cap devices rock.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 26, 2007, 11:48:00 PM
Score:
success stories - 5
horrror stories - 0
So what's your secret? Every so often when I'm bored at work, CAP will float through my mind, usually followed by panic at the idea of next having to order something. I simply don't have time to follow up with those people twice a week for six weeks until I receive my order.
Quote from: star1151 on October 27, 2007, 01:40:51 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on October 26, 2007, 11:48:00 PM
Score:
success stories - 5
horrror stories - 0
So what's your secret? Every so often when I'm bored at work, CAP will float through my mind, usually followed by panic at the idea of next having to order something. I simply don't have time to follow up with those people twice a week for six weeks until I receive my order.
I send them a paper order form, and a check. Everything is neatly typed, and there are no chances for confusion on personalization, sizes, or quantities. I use a Word form that I modified from the olde online CAPMart site, and it even does all the calculations for me. You could just as easily do one in Excel.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 27, 2007, 01:51:34 AM
I send them a paper order form, and a check. Everything is neatly typed, and there are no chances for confusion on personalization, sizes, or quantities. I use a Word form that I modified from the olde online CAPMart site, and it even does all the calculations for me. You could just as easily do one in Excel.
I order online and I'm still shaking my head that it took 7 weeks to get a non-personalized golf shirt. Does mailing in an order form work better or were you being sarcastic?
No sarcasm at all. All of my orders have been mailed in. One large one had a couple of things get backordered, but it was still less than a month from start to finish.
I send the orders to:
VANGUARD
CIVIL AIR PATROL ORDER
1172 AZALEA GARDEN RD.
NORFOLK, VA 23502
Anyone know why they don't tell members if an item is backordered? I ordered the Capt gortex tab and while they charged my credit card, they failed to ship it or notify me of its backorder. When I called them they said they'll ship it as soon as they have it , but they don't have a date yet. So I asked them if they'll deduct the interest off of my money that they're holding hostage... Answer: SILENCE, followed by an offer to refund .
Refund?! Again?! How about that being my last order from them EVER? How's that for a refund? I am absolutely astonished by the sheer disinterest in business and lack of real customer service. I get better service from AAFES which doesn't even make profit!
AAARRRRGH!
During the whole gore tex slide issue, I got to know one of the supervisors there. I make a habit of talking directly to him. Just prior to my wedding I ordered a set of miniature medals for my mess dress. They busted their buts to get that one done. I received the order on Thursday and everything was as I ordered it.
Don't know if anyone noticed, but when you order online, there is a "ship complete" box on the check-out page.
For those of you who did notget you orders shipped complete, did you receive an order confirmation email? I've ordered from Vanguard twice in the last year (with seven bucks S&H, I try to make it count!) and the first time I caught a backorder and called them telling them to ship complete.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on October 27, 2007, 11:56:12 AM
During the whole gore tex slide issue, I got to know one of the supervisors there. I make a habit of talking directly to him. Just prior to my wedding I ordered a set of miniature medals for my mess dress. They busted their buts to get that one done. I received the order on Thursday and everything was as I ordered it.
BTW... the goretex slide issue... it's still there. They don't have any left and don't know when they will.
This winter I will be out of uniform for the first time in my 5 years as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol. I do not have the gore-tex tab and I do not have the new CAP shield flight suit patch. Why? Because Vanguard doesn't and neither do any other vendors. I pride on being in proper uniform EVERY meeting. This ticks me off. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I'm a Recruiter and PDO and I'd like for our new officers and cadets to be a proper example of how to "dress for success".
Quote from: afgeo4 on November 03, 2007, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: isuhawkeye on October 27, 2007, 11:56:12 AM
During the whole gore tex slide issue, I got to know one of the supervisors there. I make a habit of talking directly to him. Just prior to my wedding I ordered a set of miniature medals for my mess dress. They busted their buts to get that one done. I received the order on Thursday and everything was as I ordered it.
BTW... the goretex slide issue... it's still there. They don't have any left and don't know when they will.
This winter I will be out of uniform for the first time in my 5 years as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol. I do not have the gore-tex tab and I do not have the new CAP shield flight suit patch. Why? Because Vanguard doesn't and neither do any other vendors. I pride on being in proper uniform EVERY meeting. This ticks me off. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I'm a Recruiter and PDO and I'd like for our new officers and cadets to be a proper example of how to "dress for success".
I hear ya, I'm the PDO as well as five other jobs, but thats why I wear BDU's and a M-65 Feild Jacket
Quote from: afgeo4 on November 03, 2007, 04:48:57 PM
BTW... the goretex slide issue... it's still there. They don't have any left and don't know when they will.
This winter I will be out of uniform for the first time in my 5 years as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol. I do not have the gore-tex tab and I do not have the new CAP shield flight suit patch. Why? Because Vanguard doesn't and neither do any other vendors. I pride on being in proper uniform EVERY meeting. This ticks me off. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I'm a Recruiter and PDO and I'd like for our new officers and cadets to be a proper example of how to "dress for success".
I ordered a bunch of stuff for my next promotion in 4 months on November 9th:
Gortex Slide
Flight Suit Grade Insignia
Cloth Grade Insignia
Velcro Grey Epaulet Sleeves
Grey Epaulet Sleeves
Tie Tack
I also ordered a gortex grade slide for my parka to last for the winter (my current grade). I received all of the above - exept the grade slide I'd need now. They said it was backordered - I gave them the benefit of the doubt and waited for it to come in. I just called them today to find out when it's coming (I really hate being out of uniform). The really nice lady at the other end of the phone looked up my order ricky-tick. "Oh, I need to send that to you, we've had them for a few weeks..."
Aaarrrg...!
Just called again today because I haven't recieved my grade slides that they supposedly shipped on the 3rd...
"Oh, hi sir, we shipped these out yesterday. Is there anything else I can help you with?"
I am really frustrated. Not so much because they had something on backorder, but because you get the run around. JUST TELL ME THE TRUTH, that is all I ask. If you say you're going to ship something today, ship it today, not two weeks later!
I need to stop giving the benefit of the doubt, here I though they shipped 32nd class...
I believe that they know when you are about to crawl through the phone line, and strangle them; then ship right before then.
^ LMAO :D
That will get me to sleep tonight happy, thank you!
Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 17, 2007, 08:47:55 PM
"Oh, hi sir, we shipped these out yesterday. Is there anything else I can help you with?"
You know, while they're saying that to you, they're writing on a post-it to the person next to them saying "Crap, we dropped the ball again, go run downstairs and get this out now!"
Business's have to learn that customer service is essential. I will pay a little more if I feel that the item I ordered will come as and when ordered. As compared with those that make a commitment and don't follow through.
Quote from: Cecil DP on December 18, 2007, 04:55:20 PM
Business's have to learn that customer service is essential. I will pay a little more if I feel that the item I ordered will come as and when ordered. As compared with those that make a commitment and don't follow through.
"Under promise and over deliver"
Quote from: SJFedor on December 18, 2007, 04:05:28 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 17, 2007, 08:47:55 PM
"Oh, hi sir, we shipped these out yesterday. Is there anything else I can help you with?"
You know, while they're saying that to you, they're writing on a post-it to the person next to them saying "Crap, we dropped the ball again, go run downstairs and get this out now!"
They're not writing on a post-it, they're saying it verbally. That's right, I called once and actually heard him whisper to someone else, "Hey, can you go check on order XXXX and see if it shipped yet?"
Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 17, 2007, 08:47:55 PM
Just called again today because I haven't recieved my grade slides that they supposedly shipped on the 3rd...
"Oh, hi sir, we shipped these out yesterday. Is there anything else I can help you with?"
I am really frustrated. Not so much because they had something on backorder, but because you get the run around. JUST TELL ME THE TRUTH, that is all I ask. If you say you're going to ship something today, ship it today, not two weeks later!
I need to stop giving the benefit of the doubt, here I though they shipped 32nd class...
Well, I got my grade slides last night. They're correct, however, they don't make them very well. Does anyone know why they're 3 inches wide when the tab on the parka is half that? Looks like I'll have to do some modification.
I was actually pleased to see that there was a survey enclosed to "comment" about my experience. It's already in the mail (see how that is done Vanguard, it's shipped in under 12 hours).
Hi
I was in the market for a new AF blue shirt. The Hock shop sells this shirt for around $20.00. Vanguard sells the same shirt for $ 40.00. You can purchase this shirt a any AF Base Exchange for around $ 13.00.... You decide
Quote from: oak2007 on January 31, 2008, 04:02:07 AM
Hi
I was in the market for a new AF blue shirt. The Hock shop sells this shirt for around $20.00. Vanguard sells the same shirt for $ 40.00. You can purchase this shirt a any AF Base Exchange for around $ 13.00.... You decide
Is the base exchange shirt a "yellow tag", or a brand equivalent to the Vanguard item? There can be a big difference in quality.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 31, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on January 31, 2008, 04:02:07 AM
Hi
I was in the market for a new AF blue shirt. The Hock shop sells this shirt for around $20.00. Vanguard sells the same shirt for $ 40.00. You can purchase this shirt a any AF Base Exchange for around $ 13.00.... You decide
Is the base exchange shirt a "yellow tag", or a brand equivalent to the Vanguard item? There can be a big difference in quality.
The "issue" shirt is $11.95 and the poly-wool shirts are $34.95 at the MCSS.
And I can't really think of a reason why a cadet needs anything better then the issue shirt for normal cadet stuff.
I tried to buy the US flag patches for my flightsuit from Vanguard, unfortunately they were the wrong size when they arrived. I sent them an email telling them about the problem, quoting the proper size from 39-1, and suggesting that they include the size information in their description of the item. I did receive a message back from them saying they would look into it, however I cannot tell from their website if they have corrected the problem or not.
Join the CG Aux and get your AF light blue shirts for $11.95
Word. Wonders if UDC will start stocking the tapered ones somebody mentioned.
Just a call from Vangard his morning...
...about a backorder item I ordered in early Spring 2007!
...and canceled Fall 2007!
I guess the ARCHER patches are back in stock now if I still want them. What a bunch of dip schmidts.
I've placed and received a few small orders that have been without issue. I've never been in the same camp of those who were just chomping at the bit to pick on Vanguard. And even when I had my doubts, I still like to think that I've praised them for what they done good and was at least
understanding not real critical about what wasn't. (http://flyingminutemen.net/2007/i-like-chicken-i-like-liver-vanguard-vanguard-please-deliver/#more-54) But after this transaction that has lasted
months, I am now just another tree whose roots are planted firmly in a dark forest teeming with hatred for this company. This week I talked to a V rep who simply refused to believe she handled my issue before, one that had originated from Sept of last year. This was the
third time I've had to call.
Quote from: my conversation with "Lola at ext 319"Me: hello, this is [me.] I'm calling to inquire about when I will receive my refund from the merchandise I was authorized to return last October.
She: what was the item?
Me: The blue CAP utility suit, number yadda yadda yaddawhatever.
She: Who did you speak with that authorized the return?
Me: you did.
She: No, it wasn't me.
Me: Well, that's true I guess. You were supposed to call me back, as well as email the return auth that day, but didn't. After a few days, I emailed Beth Maul and complained. It was only then that you followed through.
She: that was someone else.
Me: You are Lola at extension 319, correct? (I said it like three-nineteen)
She: No, my extension is 319 (spoken as three, one, nine)
Me: oh. sorry. Well, will you help me then? (trying to suppress a snort)
She: I'll have to go see if we received it and call you back.
And so it went again. Refusing to be the Charlie Brown to her Lucy and football, I had explained to her that if there was a return call to be made again, I wished it from the supervisor, whom I eventually did hear from.
I finally received the refund.
3 months after returning the item.WTH?
Vanguard = the stuff scathing web comics are made of.
*Names and extensions changed to protect the dim-witted and unhelpful.
I'm at FLWG conference, vanguard didn't bring enough of anything, most of the cadet grade insignia have already sold out, and they were only open a few hours last night.They didn't bring any IT badges, and only 10 of every other one. They brought 10 of each ribbon and only like 5 of each clasp. However they did make sure to bring plenty of SWAG(key chains, ball caps, pen holders, etc).
You bought SWAG?
So, as a new member, is there anything I actually have to buy from Vanguard? Our squadron meets on the same AFB I work at, so hitting up the BX is pretty easy for me.
Quote from: Del Herwat on February 01, 2008, 02:13:04 AM
I tried to buy the US flag patches for my flightsuit from Vanguard, unfortunately they were the wrong size when they arrived. I sent them an email telling them about the problem, quoting the proper size from 39-1, and suggesting that they include the size information in their description of the item. I did receive a message back from them saying they would look into it, however I cannot tell from their website if they have corrected the problem or not.
I bought some flag patches from Vanguard, and they were such crappy quality I returned them. The ones from Hock Shop were no better. The embroidery was so poor you could hardly tell what the stars were. I wrote and told them both that if I was going to suffer from poorly made patches, it WASN'T going to be on the US flag. >:( I finally bought some here:
http://www.united-states-flag.com/usapatch.html
A little pricer, but miles better quality.
Quote from: MikeD on February 03, 2008, 01:02:39 AM
So, as a new member, is there anything I actually have to buy from Vanguard? Our squadron meets on the same AFB I work at, so hitting up the BX is pretty easy for me.
Well... sort of. MCSS doesn't sell CAP insignia or name/branch tapes, so you'll have to get those through Vanguard, The Hock, or elsewhere.