I need an answer in the next hour. Is it kosher for me to show up at a senior squadron meeting in the BBDU? Or is that only for field activities? I just got mine back from the tailor and want to try it out ...
--JCB
Perfectly acceptable. A heads-up, you might be the only one in uniform. But it certainly wouldn't be inappropriate. You might set a positive example.
Kool. I normally don't wear a uniform to the meetings but I just finally got all the peices put together and want to try it out. Most of the others wear the golf shirts.
JCB
When attending any kind of CAP activity, it's best to wear a uniform. And make sure you have your ID card.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 31, 2007, 09:18:06 PM
When attending any kind of CAP activity, it's best to wear a uniform. And make sure you have your ID card.
Or your membership card. :)
Anytime I've visited a squadron, I've contacted them to find out the uniform of the day. Believe it or not, some senior squadrons go so far as to wear uniforms.
Quote from: Stonewall on August 01, 2007, 03:31:01 AM
Believe it or not, some senior squadrons go so far as to wear uniforms.
Believe it or not, the regs (http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082203102943.pdf) actually imply it is required (Table 1-1, Wear "when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions.")
Whether we agree with it or not, the golf shirt is an authorized uniform with no restrictions on when it can be worn, so according to the regs, senio officers in polo shirt ARE in uniform.
Have you checked the unit's website to see if it is posted? I know ours is automatically updated from the squadron calendar, which itself has the uniform days set up as repeating appointments from here on out to infinity (Actually, I think it goes to 2017). Not that it will help you at your unit, but you can check out www.tallahasseecap.org for ideas.
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 01, 2007, 03:54:14 AM
Whether we agree with it or not, the golf shirt is an authorized uniform with no restrictions on when it can be worn, so according to the regs, senio officers in polo shirt ARE in uniform.
So what you're telling me is that a commander has
no authority to prescribe the Uniform of the Day for an activity? And a commander has no authority to dictiate what uniforms are worn when?
So if the commander says at the upcoming SAREX, only BDUs or CAP Distinctive Field Uniforms are to be worn, and I show up in my mess dress... I should just quote your post to justify me wearing whatever uniform I [darn] well please?
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 01, 2007, 03:54:14 AM
Whether we agree with it or not, the golf shirt is an authorized uniform with no restrictions on when it can be worn, so according to the regs, senio officers in polo shirt ARE in uniform.
Did someone say the polo shirt wasn't a uniform? While I always strongly encouraged my seniors to wear the uniform of the day, i.e. the uniform the cadets were wearing, I encouraged they wear the polo combo if they opted out of the UOD. And if you were to work with cadets, like teach a class, you were required to wear the UOD or polo. Had an AE officer with a beard. He had a PhD in aerospace engineering or something. He wore the polo and I had no problems with it.
Quote from: Pylon on August 01, 2007, 04:14:38 AM
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 01, 2007, 03:54:14 AM
Whether we agree with it or not, the golf shirt is an authorized uniform with no restrictions on when it can be worn, so according to the regs, senio officers in polo shirt ARE in uniform.
So what you're telling me is that a commander has no authority to prescribe the Uniform of the Day for an activity? And a commander has no authority to dictiate what uniforms are worn when?
So if the commander says at the upcoming SAREX, only BDUs or CAP Distinctive Field Uniforms are to be worn, and I show up in my mess dress... I should just quote your post to justify me wearing whatever uniform I [darn] well please?
I didn't see that in his post at all.
Some folks here are very opposed to the polo shirt uniform, and are doing whatever they can to discourage its wear. Gene is simply pointing out that the polo shirt IS a uniform, no matter how much they would like it not to be.
As for the UOD question, yes, IMHO, a CC CAN prescribe it. Most of the local units here do have a UOD, and are very successful enforcing it.
I showed up in my brand new BBDU and it was a hit. A smash hit.
There I was with my new BBDU and the guy I walked in with was in his faded old green flightsuit with the CAP command patch from the 80's. The check pilots came in later one wearing a Hawaiian shirt and the other in his typical motorcycle leathers. (he's 70 and he rides a Harley). most of the others were in civvies and the others were in various forms of golf shirts or gray slacks and non-uniform shirts.
It's aenough to make a man grab a bottle of tequila and pass out.
zzzzbnvvvzvzzzzzzzz......
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on August 01, 2007, 04:53:15 AM
The check pilots came in later one wearing a Hawaiian shirt...
Here we call that "Tuesday"
(or "Wednesday", or "Thursday", or...) ;D
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on August 01, 2007, 04:53:15 AM
I showed up in my brand new BBDU and it was a hit. A smash hit.
Congratulations! You've just taken a big step in "leading by example." Maybe one of the other officers will now think "That looks pretty cool, maybe I should get my uniform together." You probably won't get everyone that way, but you may have started something.
I've found that if you run a class for cadets on what constitutes a uniform, they understand that the polo shirt is an authorized uniform for senior members. You need to teach when a uniform can be worn and various reasons a senior member might wear a uniform. Following such a class, cadets asked why senior members were wearing flight suits to a meeting since it's not authorized except for flight operations. But at least cadets accepted seniors in the various authorized uniforms that seniors showed up in.
Quote from: BillB on August 01, 2007, 12:07:11 PM
Following such a class, cadets asked why senior members were wearing flight suits to a meeting since it's not authorized except for flight operations.
I'm actually surprised cadets knew that. For the most part all the cadets I dealt with didn't know what the manual said, we had to give classes because they
wouldn't read it.
Quote from: Hawk200 on August 01, 2007, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: BillB on August 01, 2007, 12:07:11 PM
Following such a class, cadets asked why senior members were wearing flight suits to a meeting since it's not authorized except for flight operations.
I couldn't find a regulation reference for this. Please help.
Quote from: Snake Doctor on March 30, 2008, 05:17:22 AM
Quote from: BillB on August 01, 2007, 12:07:11 PM
Following such a class, cadets asked why senior members were wearing flight suits to a meeting since it's not authorized except for flight operations.
I couldn't find a regulation reference for this. Please help.
Try CAPM 39-1 Paragraph 2-1d:
Quote
d. Flight Crew members wearing the green Air Force flight suit may make only essential stops
en route to and from the duty performance site. If a stop is essential, members must meet the proper
standards of neatness, cleanliness, and military image.
and Figure 2.19 title:
Figure 2-19. Men's and Women's Green Flight Suit and Green Flight Jacket (Flight Crews Only)
I think with those two, the green flight suit is for flight crews only, and I think it is difficult to be on a flight crew if there are no flight operations.
On the other hand, tell an aircrew member he/she can't wear the green/blue bag to a meeting and they might have a conniption fit of titanic proportions... ;D
The flight suit 'essential stops' rule also applies to BDUs/BBDUs/blue utilities. Essential stops: stop at a gas station to put gas in the vehicle, then walk over to the convenience store for a cup o' joe while paying for the gas (unless you paid at the pump). So long as your uniform doesn't look like it's been slept in or has dried sweat rings etc. etc. and so forth. And your face doesn't have a bad case of five-o'clock shadow from two days ago.
You'll see the flight suit worn more often at CAP squadrons with an active air mission (large quantity of pilots, observers, scanners and an aircraft assigned to them).
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 01, 2007, 03:54:14 AMsenio officers in polo shirt ARE in uniform.
You had it right the first time...
Thanks for the help. It's still somewhat clear as mud. I agree that it should be flight suits only while actually performing actual flight crew duties.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 01, 2007, 04:28:53 AM
Some folks here are very opposed to the polo shirt uniform, and are doing whatever they can to discourage its wear. Gene is simply pointing out that the polo shirt IS a uniform, no matter how much they would like it not to be.
The polo shirt may be called a "uniform" by CAP so the organization can regulate it. But it's not a uniform, really.
The polo shirt brings discredit upon CAP as being anything more than a flying club or a disorganized group of volunteers. It should be banninated from official activities, especially anything where there's a camera/a public affairs or information officer/working media around.
We have uniforms for people who don't meet weight or grooming requirements, without invoking the polo shirt.
I didn't mean for this to degenerate into a debste on polo shirts.
I was look ing for something concrete, black and white, on the appropriate wear of flight suits. When and where.
Thanks for all the inputs.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 30, 2008, 06:21:39 PM
The polo shirt brings discredit upon CAP as being anything more than a flying club or a disorganized group of volunteers.
With all due respect, why should a person spend a lot of money on other uniforms when some squadrons *do* fall into the disorganized group of volunteers? Until I have the opportunity to wear a uniform outside of a normal meeting, I'm not spending the money.
Quote from: star1151 on March 30, 2008, 10:31:06 PM
...why should a person spend a lot of money on other uniforms when some squadrons *do* fall into the disorganized group of volunteers? Until I have the opportunity to wear a uniform outside of a normal meeting, I'm not spending the money.
Believe it or not, I can understand where you're coming from. And in your situation (if there are no cadets around, especially), I'm sure your situation is just fine. I mention cadets because as senior members, we MUST lead by example. If we don't wear the uniform, or wear it improperly, why shouldn't they? It becomes "do as i say, not as I do."
If you're in a senior squadron, and the weekly meetings* are really laid back, like I say, that's another thing. Please don't mistake that.
*In my unit, we don't call them "meetings," as that sounds like a social affair. They're "unit training activities," or UTAs, and can happen on weekends, too. The brass tacks: Change the language to be more professional, and you change the focus and attitudes.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on March 31, 2008, 01:48:19 AM
Quote from: star1151 on March 30, 2008, 10:31:06 PM
...why should a person spend a lot of money on other uniforms when some squadrons *do* fall into the disorganized group of volunteers? Until I have the opportunity to wear a uniform outside of a normal meeting, I'm not spending the money.
*In my unit, we don't call them "meetings," as that sounds like a social affair. They're "unit training activities," or UTAs, and can happen on weekends, too. The brass tacks: Change the language to be more professional, and you change the focus and attitudes.
It sounds like the NG - Unit Training Assemblies. Good idea - words count. There are units that also have "drills" instead of meetings. IIRC, Maryland Wing does that - Iowa may also.
GC