I have gone through the Cadets wearing flight suit threads already, but still have a question on the wear of the Flight suit for cadets. If we have C/AB's (under 18 and not aircrew or rated) who don't have a full BDU/ABU uniform, are they authored to wear the flight suit for a planned O-Flight? CAPM 39-1 defines my question, but I'm still confused.
No.
As currently published, a member, cadet or senior, has to have either a current or lapsed aircrew rating in order to wear a flight suit.
This is waivable by your wing CC and we are working in my wing on having him publish such a memo.
As written, flights suits are not authorized for aircrew trainees, ether. Likley an unintended or unconsidered consequence of the current verbiage.
CAPM 39-1, Page 95
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"8.1.1.1. The USAF-style FDU and Corporate FDU (CFDU) are authorized functional
clothing for wear by individuals who perform aviation particular duties. Flight duty includes preparation,
preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight related duties associated with aircraft operations. The
FDU and CFDU are authorized for wear by personnel who have or previously had a CAP aeronautical
rating as defined by CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and
Ground Team Badges, and/or have a current aircrew mission qualification (mission pilot, transport pilot,
observer, scanner, aerial photographer, etc.). Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and
CFDU wear is appropriate."
QuotePersonnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and
CFDU wear is appropriate."
QuoteThis is waivable by your wing CC and we are working in my wing on having him publish such a memo.
So then, if the Wing CC allows, is a memorandum
required to allow such wear? Or can he authorize by email until a memo is formulated?
Thank you for clarifying!
It would appear from the quoted Regulation: "Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated." That a Cadet could wear a flight suit for O flights if flying is planned or anticipated, No?
CAPM 39-1
Quote1.2.3.8.3. "May" indicates an acceptable or suggested means of accomplishment
(nondirective).
It depends on how they want you to take it.
QuotePersonnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated. Wing commanders will determine when FDU and
CFDU wear is appropriate."
Meaning that Wing CCs will determine if they "
may" wear it,
OR, meaning that it
IS authorized when flying is planned, but Wing CC can ultimately determine.
Quote from: josiah_stiffler on February 02, 2017, 02:43:40 PM
So then, if the Wing CC allows, is a memorandum required to allow such wear? Or can he authorize by email until a memo is formulated?
A Wing CC could authorize them in any way she saw fit - formal memo, email, or verbal. The problem with the latter two
is that they wouldn't generally be published to "all", and that's the sort of thing that leads to wives tales and misunderstandings.
In our case (and others), we want to buy some generically labeled flight suits for new cadets to get o-rides before their
own uniforms are procured (we've had opportunities within days or a couple weeks of them joining), but we don't want to spend
unit funds on something that has to be constantly approved ad-hoc.
Quote from: AirAux on February 02, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
It would appear from the quoted Regulation: "Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated." That a Cadet could wear a flight suit for O flights if flying is planned or anticipated, No?
By my read I don't see any other allowance below a Wing CC to authorize it, the verbiage isn't really ambiguous, but I'd love
to find that because this is another case where something likely well-intentioned actually makes things harder for commanders.
There is also the ever-present risk of someone entering an injury or death claim and a lawyer dropping this on the first hearing
with a "dee-nied". Again, remote, but I'm not going to be the one putting people at any unnecessary risk on my say-so, senior or
otherwise. And the reality is that for many members, especially pilots, the first and maybe only uniform they own is a flight suit,
and those initial Form 5's just got a lot higher ORM number because of this paragraph.
Quote from: josiah_stiffler on February 02, 2017, 02:52:12 PM
Meaning that Wing CCs will determine if they "may" wear it, OR, meaning that it IS authorized when flying is planned, but Wing CC can ultimately determine.
Meaning the option is there, but the default is "no", nor are they required to authorize it.
A situation like this, IMHO, is a legitimate reason to issue an ICL, vs. things like emails signatures.
It would appear from the quoted Regulation: "Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated." That a Cadet could wear a flight suit for O flights if flying is planned or anticipated, No?
Unfortunately there is that pesky period there to differentiate between, "Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated."
and
"Wing commanders will determine when FDU and CFDU wear is appropriate." Which would imply at times other than those permitted prior to the period.
Quote from: AirAux on February 02, 2017, 08:42:19 PM
It would appear from the quoted Regulation: "Personnel who do not have a current aircrew mission
qualification or a current or prior aeronautical rating may be authorized wear of the FDU and CFDU on
days when actual flying is planned or anticipated." That a Cadet could wear a flight suit for O flights if flying is planned or anticipated, No?
Yes, "may" be authorized, not "are". I only see a Wing CC as an approver. Otherwise if any unit or activity POC can
make that determination, the verbiage is unnecessary.
In spite of what some may say and believe, a Group or Squadron CC has zero authority to authorize anything uniform related unless it is an immediate safety issue.
I think the horse has been beaten enough on this. Only the Wing CC can authorize the wear of a flight suit by a cadet and then only under certain strict situations. This is a conversation that should be directed to your chain of command if you really want your cadet to wear a flight suit during O-rides.
Quote from: kwe1009 on February 02, 2017, 09:18:39 PM
Only the Wing CC can authorize the wear of a flight suit by a cadet and then only under certain strict situations.
I think you mean "Only the Wing CC can authorize the wear of a flight suit by a cadet WHO DOES NOT HOLD A CURRENT OR LAPSED AERONAUTICAL RATING and then only under certain strict situations."
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on February 03, 2017, 01:25:03 AM
Quote from: kwe1009 on February 02, 2017, 09:18:39 PM
Only the Wing CC can authorize the wear of a flight suit by a cadet and then only under certain strict situations.
I think you mean "Only the Wing CC can authorize the wear of a flight suit by a cadet WHO DOES NOT HOLD A CURRENT OR LAPSED AERONAUTICAL RATING and then only under certain strict situations."
Yep! Thanks for the correction. This whole thread was making my head hurt.