I'm interested to know how many folks have picked up a black leather A-2, and how many of you would purchase a "correct" CAP command patch if one were available, the larger size on black faux-leather and velcro, same as the AF wears on its A-2s. Vanguard has only produced the 3" patch for flight suit and flight jacket wear, proper A-2 breast patches are about 4" x 4" and would look like this:
Haven't bought the jacket.
Won't buy the "new" patch until after the sundown.
Good luck producing CAP insignia in non-standard sizes without authorization.
IIRC, the pile patch on the jacket is the same size as the small patch. One of the guys in my unit has one, but I didn't look all that close, not knowing about any potential differences at the time. I'll ask him the next time I see him.
I have a black leather jacket, but haven't put any CAP patches on it yet since I've decided to go strictly with the AF style uniforms.
My understanding was that the patch for the jacket is the exact same patch that goes on the flight suit & jacket.
It would be nice to have the larger patch, just to put the on jacket for civilian wear.
I have the jacket and would be interested in a "jacket style" patch.
You would think this would have been approved and produced as part of the uniform after it was "approved"
Quote from: LtCol White on May 22, 2007, 07:53:56 PM
You would think this would have been approved and produced as part of the uniform after it was "approved"
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_219.gif)
Quote from: LtCol White on May 22, 2007, 07:53:56 PM
You would think this would have been approved and produced as part of the uniform after it was "approved"
No prob...get some Cadets to show TP how cool it would be and it'll be approved faster than you can say "blue beret."
When the USAF AUX Comand Patch was first unveiled at the annual Conference in Las Vegas , they had the larger size on display in anticipation of it being worn on the hoped for Brown A-2 jacket.
I asked Ms Parker at NHQ about it a while back and she said because the
AF hadn't yet (at that time) approved the brown leather jacket, it was not in full production.
I have however seen the larger (leather jacket ) size floating around but they were made up by members on their own.
I'd buy one. Would also buy one of the USAF AUX patch if you had those made as well
I considered the black leather jacket, but I've never liked them with the handwarmer pockets. Would be nice if we could get the Air Force A-2 with our blues. I'd buy another with the Velcro in a heartbeat.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on May 22, 2007, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 22, 2007, 07:53:56 PM
You would think this would have been approved and produced as part of the uniform after it was "approved"
No prob...get some Cadets to show TP how cool it would be and it'll be approved faster than you can say "blue beret."
You meant..........."Orange Hat, whistle, ascot, pistol belt and ranger tab". I will forgive you this time.
Quote from: Smokey on May 22, 2007, 08:17:42 PM
When the USAF AUX Comand Patch was first unveiled at the annual Conference in Las Vegas , they had the larger size on display in anticipation of it being worn on the hoped for Brown A-2 jacket.
I asked Ms Parker at NHQ about it a while back and she said because the
AF hadn't yet (at that time) approved the brown leather jacket, it was not in full production.
I have however seen the larger (leather jacket ) size floating around but they were made up by members on their own.
Why can't we wear a brown jacket? There are other organizations besides the AF that wear the Brown Jacket. Heck......I see guys in them that never were in the service, they just got it cause it looked good. Did the AF give a specific reason other than NO? Also, what if all you own is a Brown Jacket, should you go cold in the winter while traveling to your weekly meeting?
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 24, 2007, 11:47:51 AM
Why can't we wear a brown jacket? There are other organizations besides the AF that wear the Brown Jacket. Heck......I see guys in them that never were in the service, they just got it cause it looked good. Did the AF give a specific reason other than NO? Also, what if all you own is a Brown Jacket, should you go cold in the winter while traveling to your weekly meeting?
Pretty much the Air Force says no, with the reasoning that it's an item of distinction for their NORAD and aircrews.
I own one, with no Velcro, so it's essentially a civilian leather jacket. A couple people in my unit wear one with the slacks and polo, and as long as there is no insignia, it's legal.
Also, the brown leather isn't the great insulator that many people think it is. If it was somewhat cold and I was authorized to wear it with blues, I would have a pullover sweater on underneath it. When the jacket gets cold, so do you.
A person should have another authorized jacket for wear with uniforms. I know it will cost a little bit, but if you volunteer, then you agree to those rules (and why would you spend $200 bucks on leather, when you can get the windbreaker for $60 or 70?). If you join up with the attitude that you will do what you want, then that's an issue. Proper uniforms require proper outerwear.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 24, 2007, 12:08:45 PMA person should have another authorized jacket for wear with uniforms... Proper uniforms require proper outerwear.
If NHQ were at Minot instead of Maxwell, you can bet that Susie Parker and co. would not neglect outerwear like they've consistently done for years.
Quote from: Mustang on May 24, 2007, 03:54:40 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 24, 2007, 12:08:45 PMA person should have another authorized jacket for wear with uniforms... Proper uniforms require proper outerwear.
If NHQ were at Minot instead of Maxwell, you can bet that Susie Parker and co. would not neglect outerwear like they've consistently done for years.
I'll buy that. In Alaska, we wore parkas, cold weather overpants, and mukluks. We pretty much took the view that if the Air Force wore it, we did too. I even used the military parka, pants, and mukluks that the Air Force issued me on a regular basis with my CAP uniform.
Although not super practical, I'd still love to have a brown A-2 with CAP uniforms. Probably never happen, but I can dream....
I emailed Hock shop to see if they had the 4x4 patch on leather and they replied back "you have to try Vanguard"
Quote from: Mustang on May 24, 2007, 03:54:40 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 24, 2007, 12:08:45 PMA person should have another authorized jacket for wear with uniforms... Proper uniforms require proper outerwear.
If NHQ were at Minot instead of Maxwell, you can bet that Susie Parker and co. would not neglect outerwear like they've consistently done for years.
Oh JOY... the possibility of Augmenting with NORAD ;D
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 24, 2007, 12:08:45 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 24, 2007, 11:47:51 AM
Why can't we wear a brown jacket? There are other organizations besides the AF that wear the Brown Jacket. Heck......I see guys in them that never were in the service, they just got it cause it looked good. Did the AF give a specific reason other than NO? Also, what if all you own is a Brown Jacket, should you go cold in the winter while traveling to your weekly meeting?
I own one, with no Velcro, so it's essentially a civilian leather jacket. A couple people in my unit wear one with the slacks and polo, and as long as there is no insignia, it's legal.
Also, the brown leather isn't the great insulator that many people think it is. If it was somewhat cold and I was authorized to wear it with blues, I would have a pullover sweater on underneath it. When the jacket gets cold, so do you.
A person should have another authorized jacket for wear with uniforms. I know it will cost a little bit, but if you volunteer, then you agree to those rules (and why would you spend $200 bucks on leather, when you can get the windbreaker for $60 or 70?). If you join up with the attitude that you will do what you want, then that's an issue. Proper uniforms require proper outerwear.
I have a brown Cooper A-2 that I bought just a few months after the AF adopted theirs. I don't wear it much, so it's still in very, very good shape. As you said, it's been a civilian jacket. But, as a civilian jacket, over time I decided that *I* didn't like it, because, exactly like the AF jacket, the pockets are top flap entry only, and not from the side like civilian jackets, so they aren't any good as hand-warmer pockets, or for much else, actually. (Sorta reminds me of pockets on pajama tops when I was a kid. What the $%^& do you put in there, anyway?) Different strokes for different folks, as they say. If someone wanted it badly enough, I guess I'd let it go for the right price, but until/unless that happens, I'll put up with it until/unless I buy something else.
V/R,
Quote from: LTC_Gadget on May 24, 2007, 09:46:52 PM
...But, as a civilian jacket, over time I decided that *I* didn't like it, because, exactly like the AF jacket, the pockets are top flap entry only, and not from the side like civilian jackets, so they aren't any good as hand-warmer pockets, or for much else, actually...
The pockets on both the A-2, and the Navy G-1 were designed with the top entry pockets so that the personnel wouldn't stand around with their hands in their pockets. Handwarmer pockets in general defeat the purpose of the original design. You know how the military is about bearing.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 24, 2007, 11:10:11 PM
Quote from: LTC_Gadget on May 24, 2007, 09:46:52 PM
...But, as a civilian jacket, over time I decided that *I* didn't like it, because, exactly like the AF jacket, the pockets are top flap entry only, and not from the side like civilian jackets, so they aren't any good as hand-warmer pockets, or for much else, actually...
The pockets on both the A-2, and the Navy G-1 were designed with the top entry pockets so that the personnel wouldn't stand around with their hands in their pockets. Handwarmer pockets in general defeat the purpose of the original design. You know how the military is about bearing.
Form over function, they're all about that. It's the same impulse that gets us ACU's/ABU's with starch.
The top load pockets also do a much better job of keeping things from falling out, an important issue around aircraft.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on May 24, 2007, 11:22:16 PM
Form over function, they're all about that. It's the same impulse that gets us ACU's/ABU's with starch.
At times, yes. At least a lot of the designs nowadays are becoming more practical. The IBA ensemble is a good example.
Quote from: SarDragon on May 24, 2007, 11:49:17 PM
The top load pockets also do a much better job of keeping things from falling out, an important issue around aircraft.
And also the same reason that just about all flight clothing these days have zippers completely closing the pockets. Even in the school I'm in now requires that anything that could fall out has to be in a closed pocket, or left somewhere else other than the helicopter. We've been told that if something is dropped in the bird, then noone goes home until it's found. Loose change, rings, and dog tags can bring down an aircraft (not to mention, you could lose a finger, eye or even your life by having any of that stuff on your person while working).