CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: jdh on May 18, 2016, 05:33:05 AM

Title: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: jdh on May 18, 2016, 05:33:05 AM
Just to make sure I have this right, to 2B a cadet for Failure to Advance I just fill out the form in triplicate, maintain a copy at the unit, mail a copy to the cadet and mail a copy to National HQ. Is there anything else I need to do?
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: abdsp51 on May 18, 2016, 06:00:39 AM
Why has this cadet not advanced?  Is he/she just lazy, life or what?  Have you discussed this situation with the cadet and his/her parents? How about the CC? 

Giving that this may have already happened just asking hard to say one way or another which way to go without alot of details.  I know during my time in Tucson we 2 b'd a cadet for lackluster attendance. 
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: jdh on May 18, 2016, 06:05:22 AM
Cadet has refused to promote or do what is required to promote in the last 14 months. The CC wanted to try and work with the cadet but it has gotten to the point that the cadet is causing a lot of other issues in the unit at this time. The cadet is blantantly disrespectful to the senior members and the cadets that have promoted ahead of him and he is starting to rub off on the younger cadets that look up to him. The CC has decided that a 2B is the best option before the cadet is able to degrade the cadet program any further. The CC has me researching the process so that we make sure to do it properly. The form is already filled out and signed just wanting to make sure that is all we need to do.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: SarDragon on May 18, 2016, 06:17:27 AM
You should also get his ID card from him. It is CAP property, and must be returned on request.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: Al Sayre on May 18, 2016, 11:36:25 AM
Be sure to mail it certified or registered with a return receipt requested.  That way there is no question that the member was properly notified.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: dwb on May 18, 2016, 01:01:46 PM
Oh boy.

I recommend you discuss with your next-level commander and/or the wing IG.

You rattled off a whole bunch of things that have nothing to do with failure to progress. All of those things are misconduct, and for terminations involving misconduct the member has the right to appeal the decision (CAPR 35-3 para 6(b)).

In those cases, you notify the cadet by letter of your intent to terminate and their right to appeal, and you notify NHQ. That puts the member into suspended member status pending their decision to appeal. CAPR 35-3 spells it all out pretty clearly, so I won't re-type it all here.

Also, your wing CC might wonder what other adverse actions have been filed against this member. Have you tried oral counseling, written counseling, demotion, or suspension? Usually there are two kinds of misconduct cases: a pattern of minor-moderate offenses, or one big whopper. In the latter case it makes sense to terminate right away, but in the former case many commanders and IGs want to see, in writing, the pattern of action the unit has taken to correct the problem.

If you don't have that, and you terminate for misconduct, the termination may very well be overturned on appeal because the unit has not established a sufficiently airtight case for termination.

Lastly, stop talking about this on the internet. If I were the cadet in question I would print this thread because you're making it clear you are attempting to terminate for misconduct but only citing the "failure to progress" clause.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: NIN on May 18, 2016, 01:30:51 PM
^^ What Dan said.  x10
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: JeffDG on May 18, 2016, 02:58:02 PM
Quote from: dwb on May 18, 2016, 01:01:46 PM
You rattled off a whole bunch of things that have nothing to do with failure to progress. All of those things are misconduct, and for terminations involving misconduct the member has the right to appeal the decision (CAPR 35-3 para 6(b)).
That's all true, but no promotions for 14 months certainly qualifies as failure to progress.

The termination procedure for which is significantly simpler, no appeal or anything else.  Once you drop misconduct into the mix, you have a whole different 2B animal.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: AirAux on May 18, 2016, 03:43:54 PM
Thou art about to stir a hornets nest...  I would talk to the closest legal officer and have them recommend what course to take.  First thing you know, National and everybody will be involved...  The Command staff will be explaining what all they have done to motivate tis cadet and where did they fail him.  Move forward at your own peril..
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: kwe1009 on May 18, 2016, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: AirAux on May 18, 2016, 03:43:54 PM
Thou art about to stir a hornets nest...  I would talk to the closest legal officer and have them recommend what course to take.  First thing you know, National and everybody will be involved...  The Command staff will be explaining what all they have done to motivate tis cadet and where did they fail him.  Move forward at your own peril..

Very true.  For any 2B action it is always a good idea to talk to your chain of command and Legal.  For failure to progress or any other issue, you should have documented counseling sessions where this issue was discussed.  The CAPF50 should also have been completed to note this and reviewed with the cadet.  Has a conversation about this taken place with the cadet's parents/guardians?

Lacking any documentation that the squadron has tried to correct the misconduct or failure to progress you may be in for a struggle to get a 2B approved.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: MSG Mac on May 18, 2016, 05:03:48 PM
Use your Unit Membership Committee to sit him/her down to address the problems. If the problem cannot be resolved, they can recommend a 2b or non-renewal. Non-renewal only requires a letter to National HQ and one to the cadet explaining why the action was taken, with copies to the Chain of Command. A
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: JeffDG on May 18, 2016, 05:35:10 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on May 18, 2016, 05:03:48 PM
Use your Unit Membership Committee to sit him/her down to address the problems. If the problem cannot be resolved, they can recommend a 2b or non-renewal. Non-renewal only requires a letter to National HQ and one to the cadet explaining why the action was taken, with copies to the Chain of Command. A
Non-renewal does not exist as an option in the regulations whatsoever.

If termination of membership is warranted, then 2B the person.
Title: Re: Failure to advance 2B
Post by: Storm Chaser on May 27, 2016, 01:04:00 AM
As others have said, this is somethings better discussed with your group or wing commander. Except for voluntary resignation, it is definitely a good idea to notify your next echelon commander of the pending termination action and seek advice, if needed.