My crystal ball prediction. I'll check back here in 20 years and see. LOL
- As we see less and less SAR.
- As we see less and less ELTs in hangars going off.
- As we get in bed with FEMA deeper and deeper with Disaster Relief photography and more.
- As FEMA gets accustomed to having us around and desires more and more input as to how we handle things.
Give it 20 years or less and Congress will move CAP over to Homeland Security under FEMA.
Welcome to FEMA Corps ... and the simpler uniform.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/484436625733079040/P5aPZSc5.jpeg)
I sincerely doubt it, as we would have to have a serious mission shift (not just ES,) before we moved to HS. The day we do, I'm out.
The very subtle comparisons are already being made:
QuoteCAP cadets and FEMA Corps members share a common goal: Making our nation more resilient to any type of disaster or emergency.
http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/national_partners/ (http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/national_partners/)
Its a natural partnership that will be much more enticing for youth to get involved. And once those youth get to be our age ... old timers like you and me will be long gone and the transition would be an easy one.
That's not reflected in 52-16. Say what they will, until it is in the curriculum, it's only vapor. Besides, the Cadet Program so so much more than ES (cadets aren't even required to participate in ES.)
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 13, 2016, 07:29:35 PM
I sincerely doubt it, as we would have to have a serious mission shift.....
When was the last time you did CAP Border Patrol looking for submarines, etc. ? LOL
CAP has shifted its focus before. Looking like FEMA has its eyes set on us. CAP has done such a great job for them with the flooding in the Carolina's and other disasters .... that we are paving our own future to new missions and purposes.
Our youth, looking for a way to help this world, can and do get excited about FEMA Corps. Its a good thing.
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 13, 2016, 07:42:09 PM
That's not reflected in 52-16. Say what they will, until it is in the curriculum, it's only vapor.
Of course it is. I started this off with 'crystal ball' to let you know right off the bat its wild conjecture. And maybe 20 years out.
But as we get more and more in bed with FEMA .... you'll notice it .... and remember you heard it here first. LOL
Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 07:44:54 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 13, 2016, 07:29:35 PM
I sincerely doubt it, as we would have to have a serious mission shift.....
When was the last time you did CAP Border Patrol looking for submarines, etc. ? LOL
CAP has shifted its focus before. Looking like FEMA has its eyes set on us. CAP has done such a great job for them with the flooding in the Carolina's and other disasters .... that we are paving our own future to new missions and purposes.
Our youth, looking for a way to help this world, can and do get excited about FEMA Corps. Its a good thing.
I'm surprised we aren't helping out CBP out with their border patrol mission.
Quote from: DocJekyll on May 13, 2016, 07:51:23 PM
I'm surprised we aren't helping out CBP out with their border patrol mission.
With these new Garmin Virb cameras, flying a border taking continuous photos would be simple. As we can see ... our mission is changing ....
CAP started under the Office of Civilian Defense, so I could see it under the Department of Homeland Security. And while we have a long-standing relationship with the Air Force, a lot of what CAP does have nothing to do with the Air Force. All organizations must change and adapt in order to survive and stay relevant, and CAP is no different. Who knows what the future holds for us?
Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 13, 2016, 08:44:40 PM
CAP started under the Office of Civilian Defense, so I could see it under the Department of Homeland Security. And while we have a long-standing relationship with the Air Force, a lot of what CAP does have nothing to do with the Air Force. All organizations must change and adapt in order to survive and stay relevant, and CAP is no different. Who knows what the future holds for us?
^^^ Thanks. Someone who gets it.
I'm excited about the possibilities of the future for CAP. I'm looking at how we can entice more youth to get interested and how to retain them once onboard. Retention has always been a big problem. Disaster Relief is something very tangible these environmentally interested kids of today can get into. Ways to help the Earth and their fellow human beings. CAP can evolve into something much bigger than it is now, with a much greater impact.
Going to be fun to watch. Unless the old timers refuse to allow it, and let CAP die out someday. But I think our upcoming youth will shove us old folks aside and create their own futures.
exciting times ahead ....
Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 09:19:07 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 13, 2016, 08:44:40 PM
CAP started under the Office of Civilian Defense, so I could see it under the Department of Homeland Security. And while we have a long-standing relationship with the Air Force, a lot of what CAP does have nothing to do with the Air Force. All organizations must change and adapt in order to survive and stay relevant, and CAP is no different. Who knows what the future holds for us?
^^^ Thanks. Someone who gets it. Someone who sounds like they agree with me!
Fixed.Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 09:19:07 PMI'm excited about the possibilities of the future for CAP. I'm looking at how we can entice more youth to get interested and how to retain them once onboard. Retention has always been a big problem. Disaster Relief is something very tangible these environmentally interested kids of today can get into. Ways to help the Earth and their fellow human beings. CAP can evolve into something much bigger than it is now, with a much greater impact.
Going to be fun to watch. Unless the old timers refuse to allow it, and let CAP die out someday. But I think our upcoming youth will shove us old folks aside and create their own futures.
exciting times ahead ....
Sorry, I'm the "upcoming youth", in terms of CAP, and you clearly don't understand the cadet program. Very few of our cadets join for Emergency Services. They join for a lot of reasons, and most of those are under Cadet Programs, not DR, FEMA, or environment.
Give us a call in 20 years
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on May 13, 2016, 09:29:58 PM
Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 09:19:07 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 13, 2016, 08:44:40 PM
CAP started under the Office of Civilian Defense, so I could see it under the Department of Homeland Security. And while we have a long-standing relationship with the Air Force, a lot of what CAP does have nothing to do with the Air Force. All organizations must change and adapt in order to survive and stay relevant, and CAP is no different. Who knows what the future holds for us?
^^^ Thanks. Someone who gets it. Someone who sounds like they agree with me!
Fixed.
Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 09:19:07 PMI'm excited about the possibilities of the future for CAP. I'm looking at how we can entice more youth to get interested and how to retain them once onboard. Retention has always been a big problem. Disaster Relief is something very tangible these environmentally interested kids of today can get into. Ways to help the Earth and their fellow human beings. CAP can evolve into something much bigger than it is now, with a much greater impact.
Going to be fun to watch. Unless the old timers refuse to allow it, and let CAP die out someday. But I think our upcoming youth will shove us old folks aside and create their own futures.
exciting times ahead ....
Sorry, I'm the "upcoming youth", in terms of CAP, and you clearly don't understand the cadet program. Very few of our cadets join for Emergency Services. They join for a lot of reasons, and most of those are under Cadet Programs, not DR, FEMA, or environment.
Maybe that's the problem. CAP is trying to do too many things and be all things to all people. Are we a youth organization or emergency services organization? By trying to be both (I left AE out intentionally), we compete with our own limited resources and can't excel in neither. If you don't believe me, look at our numbers. They don't lie.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 13, 2016, 08:44:40 PM
And while we have a long-standing relationship with the Air Force, a lot of what CAP does have nothing to do with the Air Force.
I can see this happening...and ^^ is the major reason. Yay...we are part of the total force, great, but what do we REALLY do for the AF? Honestly, not much. I've been in for quite a few years now and I've never worked along side any AF members. I can't think of anything I've done over the past years that has directly impacted the AF mission, with the exception of sending a few cadets to Colorado Springs or Lackland. Every ES mission I've been on has been at the request of a non-DOD entity. With the exception of AE, we are much more aligned with the mission of DHS.
We do a lot for Big Blue Air Force. We don't necessarily do anything for your local Air Force Base. But big blue it is totally a different story.
Manning, training, equipping and operating our Aerial SAR mission saves the USAF multiple millions of dollars! More then enough that they don't mind to pay for our cadet program, AE program, et al.
We are what they call force multipliers. We do our job....so the USAF does not have to and they can do other things.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
....so the USAF ..... can do other things.
Yep. I'd bet they would love for SAR operations to be moved over into the DHS budget, so they could concentrate on defense.
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
....so the USAF ..... can do other things.
Yep. I'd bet they would love for SAR operations to be moved over into the DHS budget, so they could concentrate on defense.
Why are you even in CAP? To get flight hours?
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
....so the USAF ..... can do other things.
Yep. I'd bet they would love for SAR operations to be moved over into the DHS budget, so they could concentrate on defense.
DHS does not do SAR.
But if inland SAR was pushed to DHS.....what makes you think DHS has any interest in taking us on?
Also DHS is not the USAF and we would loose the USAF Auxiliary status.....what would happen to our organization if that happened?
Would there be the same draw to the DHS auxiliary as there is for the USAF auxiliary?
The USAF is a respected by most non-military people.......DHS is a bad name to a lot of people.
Would our cadet program survive? "Real" military uniforms is a big draw for a lot of cadets.....and seniors.
What model of Leadership Lab would we use if not the notional military model we use now?
Also....just because we moved to another agency.....would not mean that we were working any closer with that agency on a day to day buisness. I guess we would do the same thing as we do now......just in different clothing.
But then we'd be able to rock polos and be fine. That's the dream.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on May 16, 2016, 01:22:31 AM
Why are you even in CAP? To get flight hours?
I believe in the programs and would like to see us double or triple the membership and activities. But its seems stagnant. We recruit only enough to even out the numbers that leave. I've only been around a few months but have already recruited two new Cadets to our squadron.
Being new, I'm not tied to the CAP name/uniforms/etc historically. I have no problem at all seeing us as a more FEMA 'civilian' type organization if the future holds something like that.
I'm coming in at a time when SAR is quickly dwindling as a big reason for us 'being'. The move toward more DHS/FEMA involvement with DR (hurricanes, tornados, floods, fires, etc.) seems to be such a natural fit and eventual move for all of ES.
Some wild ideas .....
The CADET programs could go in several directions in the future. For those kids interested in the Air Force, our program could be tied closer with AFROTC. I don't see why that hasn't been the case anyway.
For those kids less interested in the Air Force but more interested in DR, there could be the FEMA civilian Cadet program that could be a training ground towards them joining FEMA Corps when old enough if they would like.
Sure, this whole thread I started was wild conjecture .... but with SAR and other things falling off .... there are many exciting possibilities of where our future could be as the mission changes over time.
Quote from: etodd on May 13, 2016, 07:44:54 PM
When was the last time you did CAP Border Patrol looking for submarines, etc. ? LOL
When was the last time we faced an enemy conducting unrestricted submarine warfare using diesel boats? LOL
Sure there could a FEMA cadet program.
But it would not be Civil Air Patrol and IMHO bending the already working program would break us.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 16, 2016, 02:09:14 AM
Sure there could a FEMA cadet program.
But it would not be Civil Air Patrol and IMHO bending the already working program would break us.
Thats why I'm looking 20 years ahead. To the time our current type of missions don't justify us having all these airplanes around. Can't wait until it happens. Have to start planning now. "Surely" Hdqs is already doing studies and not waiting.
Without the airplanes .... how would it affect CADET recruitment?
Trying to maintain status quo will not keep CAP together. Everything, especially technology, is changing too fast.
Hence the new Garmin Virb cameras. Hdqs is surely experimenting, trying to find and develop 'something' to keep us relevant. Having FEMA as a 'buyer' of our services is a great start. But again ... is the beginning of moving us away from our Air Force SAR mission that technology will soon eliminate and moving us more toward FEMA and even State EMS departments.
Some of you keep talking like I'm being negative ... when its totally the opposite. I'm the one seeing an exciting future for all of us with new missions and purposes in this fast changing world.
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 02:23:55 AM
Some of you keep talking like I'm being negative ... when its totally the opposite. I'm the one seeing an exciting future for all of us with new missions and purposes in this fast changing world.
I agree. My vision of the future of this program isn't all roses either. We have to evolve, adapt, and change to meet the needs of the day. I
can see us moving into a more FEMA-type organization...even though I hate the idea of it. I think some people have trouble differentiating between realistic analysis and arguing for, what they assume, you'd like to see the organization morph into.
Quote from: SAREXinNY on May 16, 2016, 02:35:00 AM
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 02:23:55 AM
Some of you keep talking like I'm being negative ... when its totally the opposite. I'm the one seeing an exciting future for all of us with new missions and purposes in this fast changing world.
I agree. My vision of the future of this program isn't all roses either. We have to evolve, adapt, and change to meet the needs of the day. I can see us moving into a more FEMA-type organization...even though I hate the idea of it. I think some people have trouble differentiating between realistic analysis and arguing for, what they assume, you'd like to see the organization morph into.
It'll morph into something we haven't even mentioned yet. I'm just throwing fun ideas out to get folks thinking and pondering their own visions. Some will ponder, while others will be like the old Baptist Deacon who stands up at every meeting saying ... "We aint never done it that way before and I don't see any reason to change it now." LOL
I think Radioman has resurrected himself.
I've said it before...
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20844.msg383433#msg383433 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20844.msg383433#msg383433)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20875.msg383409#msg383409 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=20875.msg383409#msg383409)
According to his profile, he's an old fart. >:D
Quote from: SarDragon on May 16, 2016, 06:35:09 AM
According to his profile, he's an old fart. >:D
I don't know anyone called Radioman. Here is where I introduced myself not long ago.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928)
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 16, 2016, 06:35:09 AM
According to his profile, he's an old fart. >:D
I don't know anyone called Radioman. Here is where I introduced myself not long ago.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928)
You say you're new to CAP, great. New guys usually get a break around here. But then, knowing nothing about the organization, you want to make major changes?
Yeah, that's when the Welcome mat gets yanked.
Stick around and learn something about CAP before you start wanting to make any changes.
Or are you a troll??? ???
Quote from: PHall on May 16, 2016, 03:18:20 PM
Quote from: etodd on May 16, 2016, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 16, 2016, 06:35:09 AM
According to his profile, he's an old fart. >:D
I don't know anyone called Radioman. Here is where I introduced myself not long ago.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg381928#msg381928)
You say you're new to CAP, great. New guys usually get a break around here. But then, knowing nothing about the organization, you want to make major changes?
Yeah, that's when the Welcome mat gets yanked.
Stick around and learn something about CAP before you start wanting to make any changes.
Or are you a troll??? ???
I don't see this as trolling. He is discussing some pretty valid observations. And the only suggestions about change he is recommending is that we start looking forward to what our next missions will be and how it will affect our organization. I don't see that as a bad thing. I went back and re-read all of his posts and nothing offended me...except those FEMA uniforms... >:D
Were any of these ideas submitted as part of the survey which just went out to senior members?
Mike
Quote from: sardak on May 16, 2016, 03:45:56 PM
Were any of these ideas submitted as part of the survey which just went out to senior members?
No. The survey, at least the one I saw, was focused entirely on whether a member felt value
for their membership, distance to meetings, and if they would spend more time on CAP if they had to work less.
The one I took had two free form blocks asking for suggestions. I think I maxed out on one of them, or the filter decided it had enough of me.
Mike
Quote from: sardak on May 16, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
The one I took had two free form blocks asking for suggestions. I think I maxed out on one of them, or the filter decided it had enough of me.
Mike
Funny! I thought I was the only one that happened to!!! >:D
Quote from: MacGruff on May 16, 2016, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: sardak on May 16, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
The one I took had two free form blocks asking for suggestions. I think I maxed out on one of them, or the filter decided it had enough of me.
Mike
Funny! I thought I was the only one that happened to!!! >:D
Add me to that list too. I tried not to be too critical, and not everything I provided as feedback was negative...but I did address some of the issues in this thread (not specific to the whole FEMA thing). I was also very very pleased to see that they had a checklist of things that may be frustrating to members. Considering all of my frustrations were included in that checklist I was happy that national is at least aware of all of those issues that make me want to pull my hair out.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
We do a lot for Big Blue Air Force. We don't necessarily do anything for your local Air Force Base. But big blue it is totally a different story.
Manning, training, equipping and operating our Aerial SAR mission saves the USAF multiple millions of dollars! More then enough that they don't mind to pay for our cadet program, AE program, et al.
We are what they call force multipliers. We do our job....so the USAF does not have to and they can do other things.
Agree!
Having flown several Fertile Keynote missions in support of
MA Wing, I can attest that the Air Natl Guard F-15 pilots really appreciate CAP's participation in these slow-speed intercept training sorties.
CAP Cadet and AFROTC orientation flights are also helpful to USAF recruiting.
The rigorous Stan/Eval criteria and safety mindset that flows down from USAF are critical. Unlikely to get that same influence from a non-DOD agency sponsor.
That said, a shift toward increased CAP support of HLS seems appropriate and inevitable.
Fortunately for us the Air Force is supposed to cooperate w other agencies and having CAP to help implement that for SAR/DR is win/win.
Quote from: reidleonard on June 01, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
CAP Cadet and AFROTC orientation flights are also helpful to USAF recruiting.
I'm big on not perpetuating this idea. It's also wrong.
Yes, thanks - the recruiting thing was just something I was told once upon a time that sounds plausible but Ive never seen any supporting data. Should have stuck with what I know from experience to be true: O-flights, besides being fun, encourage a positive attitude toward aviation!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: DocJekyll on May 13, 2016, 07:51:23 PM
I'm surprised we aren't helping out CBP out with their border patrol mission.
We are