Someone described CAP to me the other day as a "paramilitary organization", and I got to wondering. When most civilians in public hear the word "paramilitary" in the news they think of armed forces of many types across the world that are used in conflicts, etc.
So I was trying to think of other "paramilitary" groups like CAP that are unarmed, but are military like in that uniforms and ranks/grades are used. I guess you could put the various forms of ROTC in that group. Firefighters would fit that category as well. Salvation Army .... others?
Silly question, but I was just pondering the list.
U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary
U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps
U.S. Power Squadron
All ROTC/JROTC programs
Boy Scouts of America
Girl Scouts of America
Many state guards/state militias
Many volunteer police/sheriff organizations
Many state/local volunteer park rangers
To name a few.
"A member of an elite paramilitary group, the eagle scouts"..Commrade!
LOL. ;D
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
2 things.
1. don't take this post as legal advice. You will want to verify this answer with a lawyer. I am not a lawyer.
2. https://cliniclegal.org/resources/federal-advocacy/n-400-filing-tips-and-other-information-meeting-uscis-headquarters (https://cliniclegal.org/resources/federal-advocacy/n-400-filing-tips-and-other-information-meeting-uscis-headquarters)
QuoteRegarding paramilitary membership(Part 11. Item. 15.B.),what if applicants belong(ed) to a paramilitary branch organization registered in the United States?
Respond "no." USCIS is not looking for organizations that are associated with the United States military, such as ROTC.
I'd call the USCIS help line to confirm this. And get them to either send you an email to that effect or give permission to you to record the call.
CAP qualifies as part of the USAF Total Force, which is a part of the US Air Force and not Paramilitary. CAP isn't something you would put on the USCIS Naturalization form and wouldn't hinder your ability to be naturalized into the US.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...
Quote from: SMWOG on March 24, 2016, 06:11:49 PM
"A member of an elite paramilitary group, the eagle scouts"..Commrade!
Beat me to it.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 24, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...
The advice I've received from counsel is to answer yes, with a full explanation.
I have to answer "Yes" to several, including one about "Have you ever sold or given a weapon to anyone" (I gave my brother a .22 rifle for his birthday one year), or "Have you ever received any military, paramilitary or weapons training?" (I took a firearms safety course when I was 12).
That last question was also on my adjustment of status (green card) application. I could just imagine the immigration officer reviewing my paperwork reading the explanation, and saying "If this guy answered that truthfully, I really don't need to worry about the rest."
IMHO, you're in a far better position disclosing something minor like that, even if its outside the spirit of the question, because it's within the letter of the question, than answering "No" and someone finding out that you answered less than honestly.
Meh, as long as you are forthcoming with information and have a reasonable, verifiable explanation, then you're good. Don't let them dig around and find stuff you were less than truthful about.
Quote from: Garibaldi on March 24, 2016, 08:15:01 PM
Meh, as long as you are forthcoming with information and have a reasonable, verifiable explanation, then you're good. Don't let them dig around and find stuff you were less than truthful about.
+1
Just like on a security clearance form.
If in doubt answer yes....provide the explanation and then let the investigators figure it out.
You don't want to be caught trying to hide something......"I did not think it was important" is a bad answer.
Just don't tell them that you belong to the John Birch Society...
Enter United States Air Force Auxiliary-Civil Air Patrol
Actually, I also have to answer "Yes" to "Have you ever been a member of a militia"
As soon as I submit my application, I become a member of the militia of the United States (10 U.S. Code ยง 311)
Quote(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
Quote from: MSG Mac on March 24, 2016, 08:58:04 PM
Enter United States Air Force Auxiliary-Civil Air Patrol
Which is not our name. Government paper-pushers may not like that.
(But you could
at least put our name
first)
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 24, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...
That is the worst advice I've ever read in my life. It isn't your job to interpret the form. Answer the question exactly as it is asked. As other people have already said, it's better to err on the side of caution and be overly-inclusive. I have personally seen people get jammed up on similar applications because they
thought they knew "exactly what they mean" and left off information. The reviewer thought they were being deceptive and denied the person the job on something that was completely inconsequential, simply because they knowingly answered incorrectly. Your attorney gave you perfect advice.
My actual "additional detail" on that question:
Part 11: Question 15(B) Additional
I have been, and remain, a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), Tennessee Wing. CAP, depending on how broadly one defines the term "Paramilitary" may fit that description as the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 25, 2016, 08:38:50 PM
My actual "additional detail" on that question:
Part 11: Question 15(B) Additional
I have been, and remain, a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), Tennessee Wing. CAP, depending on how broadly one defines the term "Paramilitary" may fit that description as the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force.
:clap:
Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 25, 2016, 07:25:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 24, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...
That is the worst advice I've ever read in my life. It isn't your job to interpret the form. Answer the question exactly as it is asked. As other people have already said, it's better to err on the side of caution and be overly-inclusive. I have personally seen people get jammed up on similar applications because they thought they knew "exactly what they mean" and left off information. The reviewer thought they were being deceptive and denied the person the job on something that was completely inconsequential, simply because they knowingly answered incorrectly. Your attorney gave you perfect advice.
Why don't you read the citizenship application first.
Reading over the question (and the other sub-bullets) I suspect the intent is more to find out if you used to belong to the IRA, or if you're part of a group that's likely to wind up on the news in a standoff with the ATF.
But I doubt anyone's going to give it a second thought if you say you're in CAP, unless they don't know what CAP is and have to go look it up.
This
is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "
NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs
formally associated with DoD or the USG (
CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia. CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.
Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example,
they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Quote from: USACAP on March 27, 2016, 03:04:28 PM
This is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs formally associated with DoD or the USG (CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia. CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.
Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example, they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.
Quote from: PHall on March 27, 2016, 05:07:45 PM
Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.
Judge Judy would agree:
(http://replygif.net/i/1370.gif)
Also, anytime I have ever discussed this issue with people who have to vet applications, backgrounds, etc.,
has indicated "it's better err on the side of caution, and let the evaluator disregard, then raise any red flag..."
Seeing as how CAP is not, and can never be, an armed anything, I doubt we fall under the umbrella of a militia. I would think they are looking for the aforementioned groups, or any group of armed mercenaries, Mountain Men, or any org that wants to overthrow the government by violent means.
Just my opinion.
Nice Judge Judy facepalm.
I helped write the screening criteria ...
Quote from: PHall on March 27, 2016, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: USACAP on March 27, 2016, 03:04:28 PM
This is legal advice:
Respond, confidently, with "NO."
DHS is NOT looking for Orgs formally associated with DoD or the USG (CAP, ROTC, Sea Cadets etc).
They need to know if you've joined the Pennsylvania Military Reserve, Jamat al-Furqua or the Michigan Militia (to name a couple).
CAP does NOT meet the criteria of what we're looking for.
You may answer "YES" if you desire, but you really don't have to unless you want to highlight the positive civic participation in CAP or display your willingness to be forthcoming or whatever (but I think your CAP membership will be noted elsewhere, yeah??).
Really though - you don't have to answer "YES" because CAP absolutely does not meet the criteria we define for militia. CAP is not a militia for the purposes described here.
Part 11 gets more complicated, however, as you noted.
If you learned how to shoot a .22 @ a Boy Scout camp or a CAP encampment, for example, they do want to know the specifics of any and all firearms-related training.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 24, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.
The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400 (https://www.uscis.gov/n-400)
Quote15. Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B. Paramilitary unit? (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)
(Emphasis in original)
Are you a admitted to the bar lawyer? You would need to be one to give legal advice.
Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?" People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.
Regarding the N-400, the answer to the paramilitary question would be NO regarding CAP. Take my word for it. I've been an Immigration Officer for the past 15 years and I spent 5 years adjudicating those applications and another 2 supervising officers who do.
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 27, 2016, 11:44:25 PM
Regarding the N-400, the answer to the paramilitary question would be NO regarding CAP. Take my word for it. I've been an Immigration Officer for the past 15 years and I spent 5 years adjudicating those applications and another 2 supervising officers who do.
And if anything, this thought did not enter my mind when I said "NO" on my application in 2010, and certainly nothing came of it.
Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 27, 2016, 10:55:51 PM
Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?" People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.
I meant paramilitary org, but militia are the examples I used. I would say that any uniformed organization that has no affiliation with their "parent" service, such as the Sea Cadets, the dreaded HHSNBN's Ranger organization and others that emphasize military training over academics like ROTC and CAP, WITHOUT WEAPON TRAINING, should be considered as a paramilitary organization. Militias like the Mountain Men and others, who put the emphasis on "rigorous" (using that term loosely) weapons training should also be looped in this category, though they are mainly advocating the violent overthrow of our government, and are probably (don't honestly know) covered in another section.
Just my opinion, but as we know, I'm often wrong.
Quote from: Garibaldi on March 28, 2016, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 27, 2016, 10:55:51 PM
Does the application say "militia" or "paramilitary organization?" People are using both terms in this discussion, and I think the two are very, very different.
I meant paramilitary org, but militia are the examples I used. I would say that any uniformed organization that has no affiliation with their "parent" service, such as the Sea Cadets, the dreaded HHSNBN's Ranger organization and others that emphasize military training over academics like ROTC and CAP, WITHOUT WEAPON TRAINING, should be considered as a paramilitary organization. Militias like the Mountain Men and others, who put the emphasis on "rigorous" (using that term loosely) weapons training should also be looped in this category, though they are mainly advocating the violent overthrow of our government, and are probably (don't honestly know) covered in another section.
Just my opinion, but as we know, I'm often wrong.
Your info on the Sea Cadets is not quite right....
An easy way to find out what these words mean is to us a dictionary. Simple definitions there...
What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=. I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 28, 2016, 05:04:01 PM
What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=. I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.
Well, for paramilitary, all you get is what the question says (a group that acts like the military while not being part of the military).
For militia, there is no guidance in the USCIS documentation. I am answering yes based on the US Code reference above.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 28, 2016, 05:04:01 PM
What a dictionary defines and how the government defines terms =/=. I'd check how the government defines them, and go from there.
Well, for paramilitary, all you get is what the question says (a group that acts like the military while not being part of the military).
For militia, there is no guidance in the USCIS documentation. I am answering yes based on the US Code reference above.
Hey, it's a headache for you, not us.
Quote(5) Regarding paramilitary membership(Part 11. Item. 15.B.),what if applicants belong(ed) to a paramilitary branch organization registered in the United States?[size=inherit]Respond "no." USCIS is not looking for organizations that are associated with the United States military, such as ROTC. [/size][/font][/size][size=inherit] [/size][/font][/size]
[size=inherit][/font]
Quote from: USACAP on March 27, 2016, 03:04:28 PM
This is legal advice:
In all my time on the internet, I must say, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone do this.
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on March 28, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: USACAP on March 27, 2016, 03:04:28 PM
This is legal advice:
In all my time on the internet, I must say, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone do this.
Reddit.com/r/legaladvice
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why. No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why. No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.
Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.
Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 28, 2016, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why. No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.
Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.
Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.
Well, then they should word the form, or the official instructions, that way.
The moment I sign the N-400 I become a member of the Militia of the United States. By the definition on the form, CAP can easily be considered a paramilitary organization. My firearms safety course when I was 12 is "weapons training".
The last question was on my I-485 too, and I'm giving the same "Yes" answer to it. Just like they worded the criminal history portion in such a way as it includes every parking, traffic or other ticket you may have ever received in your life.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 28, 2016, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why. No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.
Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.
Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.
Well, then they should word the form, or the official instructions, that way.
The moment I sign the N-400 I become a member of the Militia of the United States. By the definition on the form, CAP can easily be considered a paramilitary organization. My firearms safety course when I was 12 is "weapons training".
The last question was on my I-485 too, and I'm giving the same "Yes" answer to it. Just like they worded the criminal history portion in such a way as it includes every parking, traffic or other ticket you may have ever received in your life.
Again, put down whatever you want. Hell, if you're into re-enactment and ever wore a Nazi uniform, answer yes for that one too!
Your yes won't kill the app, most likely won't delay it (by much if at all) even. But you're being overboard with this for no reason. When I filled out my app, I didn't even think of CAP for one moment. Just like I didn't think of my (aborted) US Army enlistment when it asked if I ever belonged to any military. Or my non-affiliation with the commie party, even though from birth until a few months into my life, my family was being paid by the state for raising a future defender of the motherland.
And for those interested, and inclined to take a look: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/n-400.pdf (https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/n-400.pdf)
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 28, 2016, 07:33:16 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 28, 2016, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
If I was adjudicating your N-400 and you marked YES, I would ask you some follow-up questions and when you mentioned Civil Air Patrol I would have you change your answer to NO and initial and date the change. That said, I obviously know what CAP is. Most Immigration Services Officers won't have a clue about CAP and won't be willing to proceed without issuing a N-14 Request for Evidence (RFE). Expect delays in the adjudication of your application.
If you mark yes, the instructions are to provide an explanation as to why. No need to ask, the explanation in full detail will be provided.
Unless they want more information. Thus delaying the application.
Seriously. Look at the other questions. Do they sound like they are asking about things you hear on the news? War zones? Child soldiers? Nazi concentration camp guards? Those are questions about your life before you came to the US. CAP is not, and never has been considered a paramilitary organization in the sense the USCIS is interested in knowing.
Well, then they should word the form, or the official instructions, that way.
The moment I sign the N-400 I become a member of the Militia of the United States. By the definition on the form, CAP can easily be considered a paramilitary organization. My firearms safety course when I was 12 is "weapons training".
The last question was on my I-485 too, and I'm giving the same "Yes" answer to it. Just like they worded the criminal history portion in such a way as it includes every parking, traffic or other ticket you may have ever received in your life.
Again, put down whatever you want. Hell, if you're into re-enactment and ever wore a Nazi uniform, answer yes for that one too!
Your yes won't kill the app, most likely won't delay it (by much if at all) even. But you're being overboard with this for no reason. When I filled out my app, I didn't even think of CAP for one moment. Just like I didn't think of my (aborted) US Army enlistment when it asked if I ever belonged to any military. Or my non-affiliation with the commie party, even though from birth until a few months into my life, my family was being paid by the state for raising a future defender of the motherland.
And for those interested, and inclined to take a look: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/n-400.pdf (https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/n-400.pdf)
When you have wanted something forever, and only have one shot to do it right, one tends to go overboard a bit. Personally I was fortunate enough to be born here, but I can appreciate the sentiment.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 28, 2016, 07:50:23 PM
When you have wanted something forever, and only have one shot to do it right, one tends to go overboard a bit. Personally I was fortunate enough to be born here, but I can appreciate the sentiment.
Nah, I just wanna be able to do Counter Drug missions.
Quote from: JeffDG on March 28, 2016, 08:16:53 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 28, 2016, 07:50:23 PM
When you have wanted something forever, and only have one shot to do it right, one tends to go overboard a bit. Personally I was fortunate enough to be born here, but I can appreciate the sentiment.
Nah, I just wanna be able to do Counter Drug missions.
Nor is it one shot.
Just make sure you study the 100 civics/history questions. Your exam questions will be randomly selected at the interview and we'll ask you up to 10 questions of which you'll need to get 6 correct to pass. Good luck. :)
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 11:00:17 PM
Just make sure you study the 100 civics/history questions. Your exam questions will be randomly selected at the interview and we'll ask you up to 10 questions of which you'll need to get 6 correct to pass. Good luck. :)
Or get 6/6.
Quote from: MHC5096 on March 28, 2016, 11:00:17 PM
Just make sure you study the 100 civics/history questions. Your exam questions will be randomly selected at the interview and we'll ask you up to 10 questions of which you'll need to get 6 correct to pass. Good luck. :)
I've not missed one of those questions that has been posed to me. History is a minor passion of mine.
Make sure you get the Vice President's entire name correct. My ex kinda screwed that up during her oral questioning - called him George Mondale. She passed anyway.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 29, 2016, 01:37:12 AM
Make sure you get the Vice President's entire name correct. My ex kinda screwed that up during her oral questioning - called him George Mondale. She passed anyway.
For the love of God I hope they don't ask me what I think of the current Veep...
Quote from: JeffDG on March 29, 2016, 01:40:14 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 29, 2016, 01:37:12 AM
Make sure you get the Vice President's entire name correct. My ex kinda screwed that up during her oral questioning - called him George Mondale. She passed anyway.
For the love of God I hope they don't ask me what I think of the current Veep...
Is that in your study booklet?
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 29, 2016, 01:55:47 AM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 29, 2016, 01:40:14 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 29, 2016, 01:37:12 AM
Make sure you get the Vice President's entire name correct. My ex kinda screwed that up during her oral questioning - called him George Mondale. She passed anyway.
For the love of God I hope they don't ask me what I think of the current Veep...
Is that in your study booklet?
>:D
For the love of all that is holy..... just write "Civil Air Patrol" on your app.
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 29, 2016, 10:00:01 AM
For the love of all that is holy..... just write "Civil Air Patrol" on your app.
There's a separate area to put down organizations you belong to.