I'm awaiting a reply from Vanguard but wondered if anybody has ordered a leather flight jacket patch without wings or other insignia. I am wondering if they vertically center if there isn't insignia.
I think it would look odd if the two lines remained at the bottom of the patch.
The ones I've seen actually have the lines of text centered vertically. To me, that looks odd.
I've seen it both ways, depending on the manufacturer... and neither's technically wrong, since the AF and CAP don't specify where they're supposed to align in the absence of a badge.
At my last ops base, you could go over to clothing sales with a friend, both order identical new nametags, and come back next week to find one of you had your name centered on the tag, and the other had your name put at the bottom of the tag.
Just to follow up, I recently received a leather name patch from Vanguard and the text was arranged as follows,,,
FNAME LNAME
(big empty space)
RANK CAP
Needless to say, I wasn't thilled.
I've had three different leather name plates, and the only thing different about them was my rank at the time. (CDT, TFO, 1ST LT) Yet, somehow they positioned the words different each time.
Note to self: Don't buy leather name patches from vanguard.
Quote from: radioguy on March 07, 2016, 11:26:35 PM
Just to follow up, I recently received a leather name patch from Vanguard and the text was arranged as follows,,,
FNAME LNAME
(big empty space)
RANK CAP
Needless to say, I wasn't thilled.
That's kind of the way they are supposed to be.
But if you are not happy by all means let Vanguard know and they will make it right.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 08, 2016, 02:12:03 AM
Quote from: radioguy on March 07, 2016, 11:26:35 PM
Just to follow up, I recently received a leather name patch from Vanguard and the text was arranged as follows,,,
FNAME LNAME
(big empty space)
RANK CAP
Needless to say, I wasn't thilled.
That's kind of the way they are supposed to be.
But if you are not happy by all means let Vanguard know and they will make it right.
No, it's not. The space should be on top (where the wings or badge would normally go), not on the middle.
I was afraid of an awkward spacing so I added a duty title and I was pleased with the spacing. However, the [darn]ed thing was mounted on a piece of plywood.
What's the story? Is this awkward arrangement a result of the brown patch not filling up the 2x4 space on the Vanguard M-1, so they mounted on 2x4 black leather to fill the gap?
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 03:41:16 AM
I was afraid of an awkward spacing so I added a duty title and I was pleased with the spacing. However, the [darn]ed thing was mounted on a piece of plywood.
What's the story? Is this awkward arrangement a result of the brown patch not filling up the 2x4 space on the Vanguard M-1, so they mounted on 2x4 black leather to fill the gap?
Oh cool I didn't know we could do that
There are TWO leather name patches for wear: the plain black 2x4" for the flight suit (FDU/CFDU) and the brown with black border that's only worn on the black A-2 leather jacket.
What's the reason for the black frame on the brown patch? Is it a way accommodate the smaller brown patch on a 2x4 footprint? Is this a Vanguard issue or is this rooted in tradition?
It results in a horrible looking patch that doesn't bend at all and looks silly as a result. If they used a 2x4 brown patch it would look better.
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 07:51:58 PM
Yes, I understand there are two different patches. I'm asking the question, what's the reason for the black frame on the brown patch? Is it a way accommodate the smaller brown patch?
It results in a horrible looking patch that doesn't bend at all and looks silly as a result. If they used a 2x4 brown patch it would look better.
It was done to match the style worn on Ma Blue's A-2 jacket. The AF name patch frame is a dark brown to closely match the color of the brown leather jacket, while the 2x4 name patch itself is a lighter brown. The CAP black name patch frame matches the black color of the jacket. Unlike Ma Blue, the command patch on the CAP A-2 does not have a leather frame. (Though there were some leather-framed command patches made and sold by CAPMart before they went belly up.)
And no, we'll never get to wear the brown A-2 with the FDU; traditionally the A-2 jacket is issued to USAF aircrew when they become 'mission qualified' in their aircraft or weapons system.
Vanguard's implementation is horrible. They chose heavy black leather which results in stiff patch that looks like it's mounted on plywood.
I can't recall if my father's Navy jackets were framed in dark brown.
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
Vanguard's implementation is horrible. They chose heavy black leather which results in stiff patch that looks like it's mounted on plywood.
I can't recall of my father's Navy jackets were framed in dark brown.
At least it's not like the ones the AF Academy uses when you don't have a badge... A piece of paper that's been laminated with velcro on the back
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
Vanguard's implementation is horrible. They chose heavy black leather which results in stiff patch that looks like it's mounted on plywood.
I can't recall if my father's Navy jackets were framed in dark brown.
It's an Air Force thing.
It would look better if they created a two-tone patch instead of layering two patches. I've seen flight jackets all my life and was surprised at this odd implementation.
Thanks for the background.
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
Vanguard's implementation is horrible. They chose heavy black leather which results in stiff patch that looks like it's mounted on plywood.
I can't recall if my father's Navy jackets were framed in dark brown.
Nope, all brown. My dad used to make them. At some time, though, they did shift to all black.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 08, 2016, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Damron on March 08, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
Vanguard's implementation is horrible. They chose heavy black leather which results in stiff patch that looks like it's mounted on plywood.
I can't recall if my father's Navy jackets were framed in dark brown.
It's an Air Force thing.
That's what the Air Force wears on their Brown A-2 jackets. And you're right, they don't bend, ever...
I'll just get used to my stiff name patch and uncovered salutes and concentrate on more important matters. :)
I received my leather name patch today from Vanguard. My name is split left and right now, when my previous name patch had my name centered. I called Vanguard and was told that is how CAP HQ directed that it be done. Vanguard agreed it looked bad and all other services center the name. So I checked the CAP 39-1; Figure 2-19, and the name is clearly centered. Does anyone know where this direction at CAP HQ comes from or can explain the change?
Quote from: wvlawyer02 on April 18, 2016, 02:21:37 PMDoes anyone know where this direction at CAP HQ comes from or can explain the change?
The creative imagination of the person you spoke to...
Send it back with a change/refund request with a printed copy of the reg.
Quote from: wvlawyer02 on April 18, 2016, 02:21:37 PM
I received my leather name patch today from Vanguard. My name is split left and right now, when my previous name patch had my name centered. I called Vanguard and was told that is how CAP HQ directed that it be done. Vanguard agreed it looked bad and all other services center the name. So I checked the CAP 39-1; Figure 2-19, and the name is clearly centered. Does anyone know where this direction at CAP HQ comes from or can explain the change?
What version of CAPM39-1 are you looking at? Everything I see in the current version has the name and last name spread left and right.
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf)
Figure 6-4 - page 79
Figure 6-6 - page 80
Figure 8-1 - page 96
Figure 8-3 - page 98
Figure 8-4 - page 99
Figure A6-3 - page 138
I am not saying it looks right, but I think Vanguard has a point when they are simply following instructions.
I think what they're saying is that VG is making them like this, which is the USN/USMC standard:
(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x331/flyinute/navymarinetag.png)
Needless to say, CAP is not the USN/USMC. We should be defaulting to the USAF standard, which is this:
(http://www.mardonco.com/z0000053.jpg)
If NHQ has indeed told VG to make CAP tags to the USN/USMC standard, that needs to be corrected.
Quote from: Mustang on May 11, 2016, 09:56:03 AM
I think what they're saying is that VG is making them like this, which is the USN/USMC standard:
(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x331/flyinute/navymarinetag.png)
Needless to say, CAP is not the USN/USMC. We should be defaulting to the USAF standard, which is this:
(http://www.mardonco.com/z0000053.jpg)
If NHQ has indeed told VG to make CAP tags to the USN/USMC standard, that needs to be corrected.
Here's my last one ordered from Vanguard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1gh3hyhs5wyaa7/2016-01-31%2019.44.00.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1gh3hyhs5wyaa7/2016-01-31%2019.44.00.jpg)
Having a suffix on one's name (and not wishing to exclude it since I am not my grandfather) makes it even more odd-looking.
Sigh....