I have a Phase IV cadet who, due to school obligations, cannot attend every squadron meeting right now. He has held multiple positions at the squadron, including cadet commander, but now has no position and only attends approximately 65% of the weekly meetings. He has completed ALL requirements for achievement 16, has attended RCLS, and is active at the group and wing levels. He is still connected with lower ranking cadets at the squadron through CAC, and other means, in addition to higher level cadets from across the wing. The commander of the squadron has denied his promotion because he cannot attend weekly meetings.
What are your thoughts?
I would suggest you make your case to the unit commander rather than trying to sow discontent on CAP Talk.
I'm certainly not trying to "sow dissent"; merely trying to open a discussion about the needs/challenges of supporting higher ranking cadets. (FYI, this was discussed with the unit commander and his decision is final.)
From your own unit website http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/):
Quote:
"What are the requirements
To become a Civil Air Patrol cadet, you must:
◾Be at least 12 years old and not yet 19.
◾Be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident (waivers available)
◾Be willing to attend most Wednesday evening training meetings at the Oswego County Airport
◾Be willing to properly wear Air Force uniforms with CAP cadet insignia, including adhering to the Air Force's standards for haircuts and shaving.
◾Pay annual dues of $32, plus a one-time uniform accessory fee of about $50". [emphasis added, "most"].
By my math, approximately 65% attendance meets the definition of "most". If he hasn't, he might want to point out the local level inconsistency... after which the ball is in the cadets hands if he wishes to take it further.
V/R
Spam
Actually, IIRC, a cadet may always be excused for school activity. Some cadets miss meetings for sports, others for band. That is not an excuse for denying a cadet their promotion. The Air Force Academy gives more emphasis on all around activity and school participation than on CAP involvement only. Someone is overstepping their authority.
52-16: 4-4. Attendance and Retention.
a. Expectations of Cadets. Cadets are required to participate actively in their local unit if they are to progress in the Cadet Program. Excessive, unexcused absences may be cause for termination from CAP (see CAPR 35-3, Membership Termination). Any school-related activity is considered an excused absence. Cadets are responsible for informing their leaders in advance if they expect to be absent. School-related absences do not excuse cadets from promotion requirements.
Quote from: AirAux on January 28, 2016, 01:20:29 PM
Actually, IIRC, a cadet may always be excused for school activity. Some cadets miss meetings for sports, others for band. That is not an excuse for denying a cadet their promotion. The Air Force Academy gives more emphasis on all around activity and school participation than on CAP involvement only. Someone is overstepping their authority.
52-16: 4-4. Attendance and Retention.
a. Expectations of Cadets. Cadets are required to participate actively in their local unit if they are to progress in the Cadet Program. Excessive, unexcused absences may be cause for termination from CAP (see CAPR 35-3, Membership Termination). Any school-related activity is considered an excused absence. Cadets are responsible for informing their leaders in advance if they expect to be absent. School-related absences do not excuse cadets from promotion requirements.
The sentence I highlighted is a key. Is this cadet informing their leaders in ADVANCE of his expected absence? If so, then it should be excused by regulation. If he is missing meetings because he is doing homework, I don't think this would be an excused absence. If there in no other reason for denying this promotion then the commander isn't following their squadron policy and is also going against 52-16. I think a conversation is in order between you, the commander, and maybe one or two other Senior Members that are involved in your unit's Cadet Program.
Denying a promotion to me is very serious and there should have been a conversation with the cadet long before they were eligible for promotion to let them know that they were not on the right track for promotion.
Sooo...in a nutshell, this CC is not correct in denying advancement based on meeting participation. Of course, YMMV, but IMO, this is something that may or may not need to be kicked up a level.
In our unit, we have a mantra, if you will. Family, Faith, School/Work, CAP. Family, church, and school or work will always take priority over CAP. All we ask is that if the cadet needs to fade for a bit, just let us know via chain of command what's happening. It sounds like this kid(?) may be a junior or senior in school, so his focus NEEDS to be on school. We have a cadet at the Citadel who obviously is not active, but he comes when he can, even was encampment cadet commander this past year, and took his Spaatz exam recently. Where is his focus? School, obviously. Did we counsel, hold back, outright deny him the right to take this test because he is in college? No, we did not.
Sounds like the CC has a different set of priorities. His word is not final. Someone from group or wing could tell him to knock it off, let the guy promote. Based on regs alone, he has every right to. I'm not saying jump the chain and get group or wing involved, but if you show the regs to the CC and he still says no, then he is wrong for denying the opportunity. Of course, if the kid is just not showing up and there is no documented reason for it, that's another story.
Regs are on your side in this case, my friend.
Quote from: mpwslp on January 28, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
I'm certainly not trying to "sow dissent"; merely trying to open a discussion about the needs/challenges of supporting higher ranking cadets. (FYI, this was discussed with the unit commander and his decision is final.) (emphasis mine)
The squadron commander's decision is
not final. This can be appealed to the group or wing commander, who can overturn this decision. If the cadet is as active as you state on your post, overturning this decision shouldn't be difficult.
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on January 28, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
Or some kind of compromise. I had cadets who had wrestling meets on Mondays. During the wrestling season, they met with another local unit. Both priorities were met, and they got to experience a different unit culture. You're right though. You can learn a lot just by talking to people.
I suggest the Cadet transfer to another Squadron, then they can take the credit for the outstanding young American!
Quote from: THRAWN on January 28, 2016, 07:25:05 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on January 28, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
Or some kind of compromise. I had cadets who had wrestling meets on Mondays. During the wrestling season, they met with another local unit. Both priorities were met, and they got to experience a different unit culture. You're right though. You can learn a lot just by talking to people.
I absolutely understand that during sports seasons, cadets may be gone for months at a time. But that understanding comes with them understanding that participating in sports will limit their CAP progression roles. Can't have a Flight Sergeant gone for 3 months, and I won't promote someone who made it to one meeting in a quarter in order to do PT/CD for their next click.
In this particular case as outlined by OP...seems the cadet is at the end of their career. BTDT, closing in on Eaker. I personally would understand that, and given that the cadet seems to be past the "you have an important job to do" phase, the level of attendance wouldn't be a hindrance.
Bottom line. If ALL OTHER requirements have been met. School is a valid excuse and cannot be used to deny a promotion.
Having said that.
If a cadet is not active because of school does not hold a leadership position in the squadron it may be difficult to show the "shows ability to lead" requirement all promotions have.
Quote from: mpwslp on January 28, 2016, 10:29:17 AM
I have a Phase IV cadet who, due to school obligations, cannot attend every squadron meeting right now. He has held multiple positions at the squadron, including cadet commander, but now has no position and only attends approximately 65% of the weekly meetings. He has completed ALL requirements for achievement 16, has attended RCLS, and is active at the group and wing levels. He is still connected with lower ranking cadets at the squadron through CAC, and other means, in addition to higher level cadets from across the wing. The commander of the squadron has denied his promotion because he cannot attend weekly meetings.
What are your thoughts?
So, this cadet has filled "multiple levels at the squadron, including cadet commander", is still active in the squadron thru CAC, and acts at the group and wing level; plus he still attends most meetings. I guess I have a different definition of "active participation". If I were the cadet, and this was the whole picture, I would move this up the chain.
What he said ^!
Quote from: FW on January 29, 2016, 03:07:05 AM
If I were the cadet, and this was the whole picture, I would move this up the chain.
While I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, the problem is that we aren't this cadet and this likely isn't the whole story.
My recommendation is to schedule an appointment with your CC. If you're not the CDC, enlist his or her help. Before the appointment, grab a copy of CAPR 52-16 and highlight the requirements for promotion. Then, write down in summary form how the cadet has met each requirement, including the requirement for "active participation".
Start with an understanding of the CC's position: weekly meeting attendance is one valid way to define active participation. Suggest that there are other ways this can be defined. Has the cadet been in communication with the CDC about his lack of attendance or does he just not show up? How does he participate? You listed a few items that could be included here.
Something like:
Sir,
I agree that active participation is a requirement for promotion. While Cadet Smith has not been able to attend meetings, his absences were due to school commitments and were always communicated in advance with his chain of command, he has remained active as a mentor for junior cadets via email, phone-calls, and text messages, he represents us well at CAC, he's supported several group and wing activities as staff, and he regularly responds to mission call-outs.
I respectfully recommend in light of his faithful communication with us that these activities be considered "active participation" for purposes of this promotion. I'd be glad to research this with our Wing Director of Cadet Programs if you'd like any supporting information on what can be considered active participation.
Respectfully,
Lt GoodStaffOfficer
CC's are busy, and without thorough staff work may make decisions based on the letter of the regulation or their best judgment. They make mistakes. It's our job as staff officers to make it as easy as possible for them to make decisions based on the CAPRs.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on January 28, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
I was one of those "kids." When I was 19, I had a class that met on Wednesday nights - Squadrin meeting night. The class wasn't available any other time. I talked to the Squadron Commander, who said "Sorry, but if you can't make it to meetings, then you can't advance."
No, not really.
He was a realistic Squadron Commander. He simply said "Well, drop by when you can, try to keep up with weekend activities. And I'll talk to Captain Whatshisname at Squadron XX - maybe you can drop in there one Tuesday per month and teach a class."
He was a mensch. CAP would be well served by having a few more mensch officers.
Quote from: Spam on January 28, 2016, 12:34:25 PM
From your own unit website http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/):
Quote:
"What are the requirements
To become a Civil Air Patrol cadet, you must:
◾Be at least 12 years old and not yet 19.
◾Be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident (waivers available)
◾Be willing to attend most Wednesday evening training meetings at the Oswego County Airport
◾Be willing to properly wear Air Force uniforms with CAP cadet insignia, including adhering to the Air Force's standards for haircuts and shaving.
◾Pay annual dues of $32, plus a one-time uniform accessory fee of about $50". [emphasis added, "most"].
By my math, approximately 65% attendance meets the definition of "most". If he hasn't, he might want to point out the local level inconsistency... after which the ball is in the cadets hands if he wishes to take it further.
V/R
Spam
I hate it when local people make stuff up, engrave it in stone and claim it is policy instead of local desire.
(What's he going to do with the 18 year old cadet who can't meet the "requirement" to wear the USAF type uniform?)
Doesn't take a lawyer to prove that 65% constitutes "most" if something. A fourth grader in math class can prove it.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 30, 2016, 06:21:03 AM
I hate it when local people make stuff up, engrave it in stone and claim it is policy instead of local desire.
(What's he going to do with the 18 year old cadet who can't meet the "requirement" to wear the USAF type uniform?)
Doesn't take a lawyer to prove that 65% constitutes "most" if something. A fourth grader in math class can prove it.
Bernie, I don't disagree with you about making things up, but that website boilerplate is more or less what the requirements are for a cadet.
Now, an over-18 cadet who doesn't meet the height weight requirements? There are options there, they're just not spelled out in great and glorious detail on that page.
Don't forget: that site (and that page in particular) is designed to market CAP to non-members, not serve as a policy document.
Funny that page: http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/)
Sure looks like this page: http://www.concordcap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://www.concordcap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/)
:P
Granted we don't know the whole story, but what leadership lesson is being conveyed here by the squadron commander? The Cadet is old enough to be a Senior Member, right? What are the meeting attendance requirements for Senior Members? (<---that is a rhetorical question and does not require a comment or answer; it is there to illuminate my point)
Cadet Timmy no longer fits the mold of a perfect cadet. I bet Cadet Timmy has expressed his opinions a few times? I bet Cadet Timmy has been branded a rabble rouser by some because dynamic aerospace leaders tend to be a tad disruptive to the status quo. I bet there is no local plan to help Cadet Timmy transition to Senior Member? So, the same standard used to inculcate a new cadet into CAP is being rigidly applied to de facto dismiss a cadet for achieving program goals and moderate success after years of loyal membership.
The Squadron Commander may have valid and unassailable reasons to retain the Cadet in grade, however; those reasons must be addressed and a plan of action put into place to overcome the deficencies least we all forget the cadet leadership laboratory is a safe place to learn and fail. Oh, and there is a core values scion there, too.
So, what leadership lesson is being conveyed. Maybe this is a solution to a hazardous attitude of anti-authority? Maybe Cadet Timmy has expressed other hazardous attitudes and this is all a means of correction? However, my experience leads me to believe Cadet Timmy is probably dealing with a situation where leadership is displaying a defense mechanism in response to Cadet Timmy's leadership acumen and age which are now viewed as threatening.
That is the biggest danger to soliciting information through CAPTalk. We rarely, if ever, get the whole picture, and 99% of the time, the OP will give only the part of the story that will fit their needs. Not saying that's the case here, but it's historically a valid concern.
To answer Robert Hartigan's post, a cadet on the verge of completing the program may not want to turn senior until they get their Spaatz. I know I wouldn't, unless I was 20 and 7 months old. It's too big a carrot. At 18, even 19, it may not be that big a deal, they've done all they're going to do as a cadet, college is breaking their back, who has time to study for the comprehensive? Few can and few do. That's why the percentage of Spaatzen is so low.
Can a cadet transition to being a senior in the same unit? Sure. It can be done, but the failure rate is pretty high, from what I've personally witnessed. The new TFO or LT sees all the work that's involved and suddenly, leading a flight or being C/CDC isn't such a bad thing anymore. They can't run and play with their friends, at least on CAP time, and it's all sir/ma'am instead of buddy buddy. And resentment can build.
Just my .02
Quote from: NIN on January 30, 2016, 02:07:38 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 30, 2016, 06:21:03 AM
I hate it when local people make stuff up, engrave it in stone and claim it is policy instead of local desire.
(What's he going to do with the 18 year old cadet who can't meet the "requirement" to wear the USAF type uniform?)
Doesn't take a lawyer to prove that 65% constitutes "most" if something. A fourth grader in math class can prove it.
Bernie, I don't disagree with you about making things up, but that website boilerplate is more or less what the requirements are for a cadet.
Now, an over-18 cadet who doesn't meet the height weight requirements? There are options there, they're just not spelled out in great and glorious detail on that page.
Don't forget: that site (and that page in particular) is designed to market CAP to non-members, not serve as a policy document.
Funny that page: http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/)
Sure looks like this page: http://www.concordcap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/ (http://www.concordcap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/)
:P
Points taken. But...
Regardless of the completeness of the bullet list criteria posted on the website, (meaning, issue with cadets over 18 perhaps not being able to, nor required to, meet the uniform spec listed), there is still some "making it up" appearing to be in play.
Specifically, if the posted standard, regardless of source, is "attend most," then a cadet attending 65% is, indeed, attending "most" and zapping him for attendance is a hip-shooting "making it up" action.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 30, 2016, 06:12:26 AM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on January 28, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
I was one of those "kids." When I was 19, I had a class that met on Wednesday nights - Squadrin meeting night. The class wasn't available any other time. I talked to the Squadron Commander, who said "Sorry, but if you can't make it to meetings, then you can't advance."
No, not really.
He was a realistic Squadron Commander. He simply said "Well, drop by when you can, try to keep up with weekend activities. And I'll talk to Captain Whatshisname at Squadron XX - maybe you can drop in there one Tuesday per month and teach a class."
He was a mensch. CAP would be well served by having a few more mensch officers.
Yea, I too was one of those cadets in college. I even tried to chart a path past my Earhart, but realized that college > progression, especially with 4 years of night classes and full work week during the day.
Part of being a cadet is demonstrating the learned skills. Teaching a class once in a while at a different squadron is nice, but doesn't give me any way to evaluate the cadet. Perhaps instead of trying to accuse me of not being a "human", looking back at your post you'd see that the solution was to transfer squadrons for the duration...
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 01, 2016, 04:47:21 PM
Yea, I too was one of those cadets in college. I even tried to chart a path past my Earhart, but realized that college > progression, especially with 4 years of night classes and full work week during the day.
Part of being a cadet is demonstrating the learned skills. Teaching a class once in a while at a different squadron is nice, but doesn't give me any way to evaluate the cadet. Perhaps instead of trying to accuse me of not being a "human", looking back at your post you'd see that the solution was to transfer squadrons for the duration...
Yes, because we all know that a C/Lt Col must be constantly and continuously evaluated.
Many years ago, before there was online testing, I ran into several circumstances where I had a cadet "out of town." Maybe they were at college or something like that. I seem to recall one instance where a cadet, due to some weird family circumstances, wound up spending an extended period of the summer at his grammie's or aunt's house in Florida or Georgia or something.
In those cases, we contacted the local squadron and got him or her an opportunity to continue to participate while "away," but while still assigned to our unit.
Not entirely sure it was proper, but as far as testing went, we worked it out that the local unit would administer the cadet's test and mail the test header to us (me, actually) so we could incorporate it into the cadet's file. The cadet went down with an introductory letter from me that basically said "please treat Cadet Goober like a member of your team.." or similar. We never really had any kind of a problem, and I suspect that if I got 4 test headers in the mail over the course of the time those cadets were "away," that might be a high number.
But those cadets were able to continue to participate in CAP (even if they didn't specifically advance) and remain members of their home unit, which was important to them at the time. Think of it like "TDY."
The more important issue was that we worked with the cadet to create a positive retention situation where he was able to continue his membership while away.
I mean yes, the ones off to college were only active (here) in the summer. The might have gone to a handful of local meetings, and it wasn't like they were showing up at home on 1 June going "OK, need to be C/Lt Col by the time I head back to campus in August cuz I've been
so active in Wisconsin!" For the most part, those cadets were C/Capt or above and were coasting a bit, but we were able to retain them in CAP. One was actually our cadet encampment commander during one of those summers.
The solution isn't always to transfer people back and forth.
Quote from: NIN on February 01, 2016, 10:44:19 PM
The solution isn't always to transfer people back and forth.
Agree. We had a cadet on TDY, if you will, from another wing while they attended college locally. Sadly it only lasted for one semester but both sides got a lot out of it, and we made friends in another wing, which has proved very useful.
The cadet approached it very sensibly, and there were emails, phone calls and letters of introduction that eased the path.
Personally, having had to work a long way from home for a while, I was glad to be able to attend the local squadron occasionally and a proper TDY system would be nice. Then again, calling ahead and writing to the CC at the squadron worked just as well!
^ I agree. Back in the dark ages, when I was a cadet and started college, my home squadron/cc worked it out with the local unit at school to "let me" participate. I met some new friends, and finished up my cadet career on a good note...
Quote from: FW on February 02, 2016, 03:16:06 PM
^ I agree. Back in the dark ages, when I was a cadet and started college, my home squadron/cc worked it out with the local unit at school to "let me" participate. I met some new friends, and finished up my cadet career on a good note...
Works in the modern age of electric light and cartomobiles as well. When I was going through the FAA Academy, I attended meetings in OK Wing. Got to see a different point of view and picked up some good best practices. I left them with the knowledge that cities in the NER are not islands in the middle of a sea of pine trees...
Just had a lesson at the last meeting that included the importance of writing things out in quantitative, positive terms:
"Most," "as soon as possible," "what you can," etc. phrases are not standards that can be enforced.
"NLT 1200 on Wednesday," "80%," "At least 2 per month," etc. phrases provide you with measurable figures.
If you want to be able to sit someone down and say "You aren't meeting these standards," you need to have hard facts to go off of, not subjective interpretations.
Now, in the case of not being active, that's a subjective statement. What are they doing for the betterment of the squadron? Are they mentoring cadets? Are they in constant communication with the squadron? If they were to show up at a meeting at random, would they know what's been going on in a broad sense?
These are things you need to decide before punishing or promoting (in an academic/philosophical sense, not rank) them based on their service to CAP and their unit.
My suggestion:
Always have your SOPs written down. Know exactly what situations can be considered "exceptions" to those SOPs, not just "case by case" stuff, because then it's whatever the heck you feel like doing at the time. Also, give any cadet with a duty position a paper with CAP's expectations for that duty position and a list of your squadron expectations, including any weekly/monthly tasks they need to accomplish and those deadlines. Have them read it, discuss it, and sign it.
Hold your cadets accountable. Hold your superiors accountable.
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on February 01, 2016, 04:47:21 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 30, 2016, 06:12:26 AM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on January 28, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 28, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.
Balance, but not abuse.
Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.
I was one of those "kids." When I was 19, I had a class that met on Wednesday nights - Squadrin meeting night. The class wasn't available any other time. I talked to the Squadron Commander, who said "Sorry, but if you can't make it to meetings, then you can't advance."
No, not really.
He was a realistic Squadron Commander. He simply said "Well, drop by when you can, try to keep up with weekend activities. And I'll talk to Captain Whatshisname at Squadron XX - maybe you can drop in there one Tuesday per month and teach a class."
He was a mensch. CAP would be well served by having a few more mensch officers.
Yea, I too was one of those cadets in college. I even tried to chart a path past my Earhart, but realized that college > progression, especially with 4 years of night classes and full work week during the day.
Part of being a cadet is demonstrating the learned skills. Teaching a class once in a while at a different squadron is nice, but doesn't give me any way to evaluate the cadet. Perhaps instead of trying to accuse me of not being a "human", looking back at your post you'd see that the solution was to transfer squadrons for the duration...
"The duration" was one semester. The other squadron was considerably out of the way - it wasn't proximity that lent itself, it was meeting night. The solution worked well, I got to stay in my home unit, and didn't have to take on ever more time and expense. I probably would have ended up simply staying away from everything for a semester otherwise. (My experience with college aged cadets doing such "temporary" absences has not been good).
Sometimes these things are best handled case by case. Sorry yours couldn't be accommodated.
When I was FLWG DCP I set up Headquarters Cadet Squadron. It had two flights, one at the University of Florida and one at Florida State University. This allowed cadets from all over the state, plus out of state students to continue their CAP training. One advantage, all cadets in the Squadron were interacting with their own peer group without having the 13 year old cadets involved. These cadets mentored each other and provided support for each other, with little senior supervision. Cadets were transferred back to their home unit's only for the presentation of their Spaatz awards. Did having a college level squadron work? I'd say it did since this Squadron produced more Spaatz awards during an 18 month period than the rest of the Southeast Region combined during the 3 years it was in existence. It also produced a 100% retention rate since all members of the Squadron kept renewing memberships and didn't drop out due to college academic loads.
"WILLING TO"... those two little words right there are a no go. If your Squadron Commander has an expectation that he is going to hold someone accountable to then he needs to change the requirements to say "MUST ATTEND".
Being willing to do something and having to do it are two different things. We had a lot of Senior NCOs in Afghanistan that were "willing" to go on missions but if they didn't "have to" in order to receive a bronze star for their tour then they were going to sit their butts in their office the whole time where it was nice and safe. See what I'm getting at here?
Quote from: Raikkonen on February 09, 2016, 09:23:16 PM
"WILLING TO"... those two little words right there are a no go. If your Squadron Commander has an expectation that he is going to hold someone accountable to then he needs to change the requirements to say "MUST ATTEND".
Being willing to do something and having to do it are two different things. We had a lot of Senior NCOs in Afghanistan that were "willing" to go on missions but if they didn't "have to" in order to receive a bronze star for their tour then they were going to sit their butts in their office the whole time where it was nice and safe. See what I'm getting at here?
Yes, I see what you're getting at.
However, text found on a website doesn't automatically abrogate the Cadet Oath and the CAPF 15 text.
Its not like cadet Timmy at a recruiting event saying "Yeah sure! You get to fly jets!" means thats entirely true.
Quote from: NIN on February 09, 2016, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: Raikkonen on February 09, 2016, 09:23:16 PM
"WILLING TO"... those two little words right there are a no go. If your Squadron Commander has an expectation that he is going to hold someone accountable to then he needs to change the requirements to say "MUST ATTEND".
Being willing to do something and having to do it are two different things. We had a lot of Senior NCOs in Afghanistan that were "willing" to go on missions but if they didn't "have to" in order to receive a bronze star for their tour then they were going to sit their butts in their office the whole time where it was nice and safe. See what I'm getting at here?
Yes, I see what you're getting at.
However, text found on a website doesn't automatically abrogate the Cadet Oath and the CAPF 15 text.
Its not like cadet Timmy at a recruiting event saying "Yeah sure! You get to fly jets!" means thats entirely true.
Very true. ^ In all, we should refer to regulations when fighting these battles.
Thank you Sir for clarifying.