So I ordered a new CAP Polo from Vanguard and was surprised with what I got. First, the buttons and pocket were different from previous designs. The shape of the pockets in particular are a departure from the previous polo sold by Vanguard. I don't necessarily dislike the new design, but it's contrary standardization and uniformity, which are important when it comes to uniforms. In addition, it makes you wonder if this design change was at CAP's request or made on their own.
The shirt material also changed. Previous CAP Polos were 60% cotton and 40% polyester. That's what they're still advertising on their website. However, the new shirt is 50% cotton and 50% polyester. Clearly not what I ordered.
Finally, the shirt size runs a bit small compared to previous polo shirts. I've bought at least 3 polos from Vanguard over the past couple of years and they all fit fine. This one is the same size, medium, but it's a bit small on me.
I contacted Vanguard and was told that the best they could do was not charge me for embroidery if I bought another shirt. When I pointed out it was them who changed the shirt type and vendor, they said I should've read their website's sizing information. Well, I did. And the medium size says it's for a 44" chest. My service dress and lightweight jacket are 42".
I'm not happy with Vanguard!
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I haven't seen the new polos yet, about to order one today, but I know they enlisted the help of members from various Wings in choosing the new shirt. Not sure what was wrong with the old vendor, but I know one of our Wing staff members was part of the selection process. Other than sizing and appearance, how is the quality overall of the new polo compared to older versions?
And it goes full circle with the standardization issue that we've been discussing on CAP Talk lately...
The new is the one I got about 6 months ago when i ordered mine. It is because they added a pen pocket to the side of the pocket, they had to bring the pocket down lower on the sides to accommodate the pen.
The material seems a bit thin, but other than that it looks fine. I haven't worn or wash it yet due to the size running small. The embroidery looks fine.
If they were going to update the design, this would've been a good time to update the seal to match the one approved in CAPR 900-2. In fact, based on CAPR 900-2, the CAP Polo should not use the CAP Seal, but the CAP Command Emblem. Of course, that's not a Vanguard issue, but a NHQ one.
Vanguard is a few miles from the Norfolk Va airport and I stopped by on my way home. Tried on a large knit shirt and ordered two. They do run a bit small, I'm a size 42 Service Dress), but the quality is much improved. Received both shirts with the correct embroidery 5 days later.
Vanguard resolved my problem and sent a a new shirt, a size larger. This one fits fine and it's a nice shirt. I also got one of their even newer shirts, this one 100% polyester with a redesign CAP Seal. The Seal now matches the regulation colors. It's slightly bigger too. The shirt is nice, although I prefer the cotton/polyester blend instead of the all polyester. While I was told the shirt would run smaller than the 60/50 cotton/polyester they used to sell, I found it a bit larger than the 50/50 one I just got.
All in all, I was impressed with Vanguard's customer service. They went above and beyond to ensure I was satisfied. They also explained that they're working with NHQ to standardize all insignias and products, but that they still don't have specifications on everything. Then there's the issue of the current inventory. I think given some time, we'll start seeing improvements. But it's not going to happen overnight.
Now if we could just get a button up version of that shirt. I hate polos and know others do as well.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on September 27, 2015, 10:05:33 PM
Now if we could just get a button up version of that shirt. I hate polos and know others do as well.
I actually like the polos as an equivalent uniform for office and airport environments. It's not the greatest woodland SAR uniform for outdoor activities, but it's still professional looking in my opinion. Casual enough but still uniform in the command/corporate climate.
I wouldn't add more shirts. If a new design must be made, kill one. We already have 3 polo variations. We have too many uniforms to be uniform.
Quote from: JC004 on September 28, 2015, 08:18:04 PM
I wouldn't add more shirts. If a new design must be made, kill one. We already have 3 polo variations. We have too many uniforms to be uniform.
+1
We have enough problems with people showing up in the wrong uniform. Then lump in a bunch of seniors wearing blues, BDUs, flight suits, and different polos.... AAAHHHHHHHH
Quote from: JC004 on September 28, 2015, 08:18:04 PM
I wouldn't add more shirts. If a new design must be made, kill one. We already have 3 polo variations. We have too many uniforms to be uniform.
I'd be all for killing the silkscreen polo and allow a button up shirt that matches the embroidered polo.
What's the 3rd polo variation? The female one without a pocket?
Silkscreen, plain embroidered seal, custom embroidered seal. And you're right, also without pocket. A female has 4 golf shirt options.
Along with the many different senior uniforms... we have the 50 shades of grey pants of the corporate polo uniform...
If I could make any changes to the CAP Polo design, I would replace the CAP Seal with the CAP Command Emblem.
According to CAPR 900-2, Para. 3e, "[t]he CAP Seal is used on official documents, including regulations and letterheads." In addition, the USAF doesn't use their seal on any uniform, but their command emblem or Air Force logo. While CAPR 900-2 doesn't specifically authorized the CAP Command Emblem for uniforms, there is precedence in both the Air Force and CAP.
Both the CAP Logo and Command Emblem are acceptable alternatives for used on the Polo, but I prefer the Command Emblem, which is already used on the CAP flight suit. It just looks better, in my opinion.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 30, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
If I could make any changes to the CAP Polo design, I would replace the CAP Seal with the CAP Command Emblem.
According to CAPR 900-2, Para. 3e, "[t]he CAP Seal is used on official documents, including regulations and letterheads." In addition, the USAF doesn't use their seal on any uniform, but their command emblem or Air Force logo. While CAPR 900-2 doesn't specifically authorized the CAP Command Emblem for uniforms, there is precedence in both the Air Force and CAP.
Both the CAP Logo and Command Emblem are acceptable alternatives for used on the Polo, but I prefer the Command Emblem, which is already used on the CAP flight suit. It just looks better, in my opinion.
Agreed. The emblem looks more "military-esque" while the seal looks like a stamp on the shirt
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 30, 2015, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 30, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
If I could make any changes to the CAP Polo design, I would replace the CAP Seal with the CAP Command Emblem.
According to CAPR 900-2, Para. 3e, "[t]he CAP Seal is used on official documents, including regulations and letterheads." In addition, the USAF doesn't use their seal on any uniform, but their command emblem or Air Force logo. While CAPR 900-2 doesn't specifically authorized the CAP Command Emblem for uniforms, there is precedence in both the Air Force and CAP.
Both the CAP Logo and Command Emblem are acceptable alternatives for used on the Polo, but I prefer the Command Emblem, which is already used on the CAP flight suit. It just looks better, in my opinion.
Agreed. The emblem looks more "military-esque" while the seal looks like a stamp on the shirt
Concur. The seal is too "busy" to be read at a distance.
I'd also like a polo made from "performance" polyester rather than the current blend that fades after a drop of rain approaches the shirt from a hundred paces. I wear polyester polos at work and they last forever and never fade.
Vanguard's newest polos are 100% polyester.
I have some older polos that I got about 10 or 11 years ago. The SS are 40/60 poly-cotton, and the LS is 65/35 poly-cotton, from Port Authority. The weave on the SS is much finer than the LS, and the SS are much more comfortable. I've seen no fading or pilling on any of them. The SS get worn an average of once a month each, and the LS might get worn three times a year, so the relatively infrequent laundering helps.
Now if we could just get rid of the stupid pocket...
Quote from: Jaison009 on September 30, 2015, 11:19:21 PM
Now if we could just get rid of the stupid pocket...
And where would you put your pocket protector? >:D
Quote from: Jaison009 on September 30, 2015, 11:19:21 PM
Now if we could just get rid of keep the stupid handy pocket...
FTFY. It's literally handy as a pocket on a shirt. :D
Though if the wanted to add a pen pocket a la the tactical leisure polo (http://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-tactical-polo-shirt-male-red), that would be fine too.
Quote from: jeders on October 01, 2015, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jaison009 on September 30, 2015, 11:19:21 PM
Now if we could just get rid of keep the stupid handy pocket...
FTFY. It's literally handy as a pocket on a shirt. :D
Though if the wanted to add a pen pocket a la the tactical leisure polo (http://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-tactical-polo-shirt-male-red), that would be fine too.
It would be nice if they just made the polo shirts with the tactical shirts. In my opinion it's a bit more functional.
Not on the topic of the Polo, just my usual Vanguard rant. Has anyone seen the latest price for blue uniform trousers? We are now up to $60. Last year it was $45. Shipping has also gone up big time. I had a tiny box delivered, 6 ribbons, cloth insignia $6.65 to ship.
This is getting a bit much for many parents and Senior Members, IMO.
I put in a large order the other week, and they gave me free shipping. I needed the items faster though so I paid the expedited. A minute after placing the order, I realized I left something out that I needed, so I called right away to add it to the order. They said due to the speed and efficiency of their order system, my original order (2 mins ago) was already processed, and I'd have to order the additional item seperately, and pay $6.95 standard shipping ($8 item). They're getting rediculous.
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on October 02, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
Not on the topic of the Polo, just my usual Vanguard rant. Has anyone seen the latest price for blue uniform trousers? We are now up to $60. Last year it was $45. Shipping has also gone up big time. I had a tiny box delivered, 6 ribbons, cloth insignia $6.65 to ship.
This is getting a bit much for many parents and Senior Members, IMO.
Maybe we should ask CAP for a pay raise? 10% increase should do.
I did the same thing. I wound up cancelling the first order and placing a second due to the error and the fact that they could not guarantee they would ship the items together and I would have to pay separate shipping if that occurred.
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on October 02, 2015, 03:50:28 PM
I put in a large order the other week, and they gave me free shipping. I needed the items faster though so I paid the expedited. A minute after placing the order, I realized I left something out that I needed, so I called right away to add it to the order. They said due to the speed and efficiency of their order system, my original order (2 mins ago) was already processed, and I'd have to order the additional item seperately, and pay $6.95 standard shipping ($8 item). They're getting rediculous.
I really hope that is sarcasm 8). I have wanted to cut that pocket off since I started as a cadet in 96. It and the old trucker style caps should have went a long time ago.
Quote from: jeders on October 01, 2015, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Jaison009 on September 30, 2015, 11:19:21 PM
Now if we could just get rid of keep the stupid handy pocket...
FTFY. It's literally handy as a pocket on a shirt. :D
Though if the wanted to add a pen pocket a la the tactical leisure polo (http://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-tactical-polo-shirt-male-red), that would be fine too.
If I could make a change, it would be to use the command shield and place it on the LEFT breast of the shirt with the name and wings on the RIGHT side of the shirt. It looks completely backwards the way it is done now.
Quote from: DrJbdm on October 03, 2015, 05:16:03 PM
If I could make a change, it would be to use the command shield and place it on the LEFT breast of the shirt with the name and wings on the RIGHT side of the shirt. It looks completely backwards the way it is done now.
The wings and badges are on the left on all of our other garments. Why not on this one, too?
Changing to the command patch is a good idea, though. Back when that shirt came out, we didn't have a command patch.
I had the chance to see the new polos first hand yesterday and I liked them. Crisp embroidery and coloring finally looks right. The material looks very comfy. I think I'll finally replacing my older one.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 04, 2015, 06:34:08 AM
Quote from: DrJbdm on October 03, 2015, 05:16:03 PM
If I could make a change, it would be to use the command shield and place it on the LEFT breast of the shirt with the name and wings on the RIGHT side of the shirt. It looks completely backwards the way it is done now.
The wings and badges are on the left on all of our other garments. Why not on this one, too?
Changing to the command patch is a good idea, though. Back when that shirt came out, we didn't have a command patch.
Exactly. Look at the flight suit. Command patch on the right and wings/name on the left.
you guys are missing the point. Simply because our other uniform combo's have the wings on the left, doesn't make it match. This actually looks very funny when done on a polo shirt when viewed by folks who have experience in such looks. It goes against the standard of how almost every agency would set theirs up. If you were to walk into a room that was full of federal, state or local agencies and lets say they were all wearing polo shirts, you would stand out as the odd duck in the group, never a good place to be. If the Air Force had a polo variant, you can bet your bottom dollar that the command patch would be on the left.
QuoteIf the Air Force had a polo variant, you can bet your bottom dollar that the command patch would be on the left.
Here is the USAF uniform guide in photos, with a polo shirt shown. The logo is on the left on the polo, PT jacket and blue lightweight jacket. Only the flight suits have it on the right. http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp (http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp)
Look at Flickr or Google images - all the photos of FEMA, NTSB, etc., have the logo on the left. Do an Internet search on "logo placement on polo shirts" or just go to an activity in an EOC and look around. The oddball placement is usually the CAP shirts.
Mike
Quote from: sardak on October 05, 2015, 11:28:42 PM
QuoteIf the Air Force had a polo variant, you can bet your bottom dollar that the command patch would be on the left.
Here is the USAF uniform guide in photos, with a polo shirt shown. The logo is on the left on the polo, PT jacket and blue lightweight jacket. Only the flight suits have it on the right. http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp (http://www.afpc.af.mil/dress/uniforms.asp)
Look at Flickr or Google images - all the photos of FEMA, NTSB, etc., have the logo on the left. Do an Internet search on "logo placement on polo shirts" or just go to an activity in an EOC and look around. The oddball placement is usually the CAP shirts.
Mike
The AF polo, PT jacket and blue lightweight jacket only have the logo on them. No embroidered name, no other individual insignia. The flight suit has the nametag, as does the polo. Functionally, the polo more resembles the flight suit than any of the above items, so the overall insignia placement is consistent, IMHO.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 06, 2015, 01:32:30 AM
The AF polo, PT jacket and blue lightweight jacket only have the logo on them. No embroidered name, no other individual insignia. The flight suit has the nametag, as does the polo. Functionally, the polo more resembles the flight suit than any of the above items, so the overall insignia placement is consistent, IMHO.
Not quite for the AF "Informal Uniform":
QuoteShirts will be short or long-sleeve, dark blue polo-style, with US AIR FORCE contemporary logo on front, upper left chest
Undershirts will be worn and must be white with a v-neck collar
With the exception of enlisted aides, functional identification will be monogrammed in white (all capital letters) on the left sleeve, above the elbow, of both the short and long sleeved shirts
Nametags will be brushed silver with rank and last name
Occupational badges are optional for wear. If worn, they will be centered 1/2 inch above the nametag
Well I guess CAP can start wearing the nameplate on the polo. If that is the option, I think I prefer the current setup.
Quote from: winterg on October 04, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
I had the chance to see the new polos first hand yesterday and I liked them. Crisp embroidery and coloring finally looks right. The material looks very comfy. I think I'll finally replacing my older one.
My new polo just arrived and I concur with the statements above. Looks like it will be a solid shirt that will last a while. :clap: