What does everyone think of CAP's switch to ACC? How will it affect normal unit operations? Does this signify a full-circle, fundamental shift in CAP towards Homeland Security?
C/SSgt Aidan F.
NO.
Makes no difference fundamentally.
It will be beneficial for the ops side...as we will actually belong to our customer.
And this happened when?
Has any heard if CAP HQ will move from Maxwell as part of this?
Quote from: lordmonar on April 23, 2015, 06:48:59 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 23, 2015, 06:43:57 PM
And this happened when?
Soon.
Should be with FY16. October-ish. But then again, this is a change inside the federal government... ;)
ACC? I thought we were going to AFNORTH under Northern Command??? Or is that more or less the smae thing???
Quote from: ZigZag911 on April 23, 2015, 09:26:26 PM
ACC? I thought we were going to AFNORTH under Northern Command??? Or is that more or less the smae thing???
AFNORTH is the AF componet command for Northern Command IIRC correctly it's headed up by 1st AF which is under ACC who is the main facilitator for AFNORTH.
I could have sworn it was MARSOC? No?
While I'm certainly not predicting that anything will happen because of this, it certainly isn't terribly good news for the cadet program since in a broad way it represents some sort of switch in attitudes about what the AF thinks CAP is about.
From the BoG minutes, April 2014:
Col Updegraff, CAP-USAF/CV, updated the BoG on the proposal to realign CAP-USAF with 1AF. The proposal is ready to be forwarded to ACC for concurrence and will then be forwarded to the Secretary of the Air Force for approval. The target date for realignment is 1 October 2014. The only concern about the proposal is coming from the FM community. Once they have been convinced that this is a transparent "patch change" there should be no problems. The Chief of Staff and the Secretary of the Air Force have been made aware of the proposal
August 2014:
1AF Realignment Proposal Update. Col Updegraff provided the realignment update. CAP-USAF briefed the A-staff in ACC on the proposal in late May. Most questions from the A-staff revolved around any increased workload for them. Those fears could be allayed, because for the most part CAP-USAF is self-sufficient. The A-staff gave the go-ahead to seek GO-level approval. Unfortunately, the Air Force has instituted a MAJCOM staff reduction plan of 20% cuts across the board. It has therefore been decided to put a 30-60 day hold on the realignment proposal. In a best-case scenario realignment could happen in late spring of 2015. It is not anticipated that this will impact the location of the National Headquarters. In any case it is vitally important that CAP NHQ and CAP-USAF are collocated.
BoG minutes, December 2014:
Col Tyynismaa (CAP-USAF/CC) provided a brief update on the 1AF Realignment program. There has not been a lot of movement since the last BoG meeting.
From the NORTHCOM website:
First Air Force (1AF, Air Forces Northern) is one of three numbered air forces assigned to Headquarters Air Combat Command. First Air Force is also the designated air component for the U.S. Northern Command. When tasked, 1AF conducts homeland defense and Defense Support of Civil Authorities operations in the USNORTHCOM area of responsibility.
From AFRCC: AFRCC is a direct reporting unit to the 1AF/CC.
Mike
Sardak, do you have a link for the full minutes? I can't seem to find them and would be interested in seeing other updates from the BoG.
The minutes for the BoG, CSAG, NEC and NB are in eServices, left column, "National Agenda/Meeting Minutes."
Mike
I do not know how long it has been there, but on the Air Combat Command welcome page on af.mil we get a short mention under First Air Force or Air Forces Northern.
http://www.acc.af.mil/main/welcome.asp (http://www.acc.af.mil/main/welcome.asp)
QuoteThe Civil Air Patrol is a significant partner in search and rescue and other DSCA missions.
Quote from: winterg on April 24, 2015, 03:37:36 AM
I do not know how long it has been there, but on the Air Combat Command welcome page on af.mil we get a short mention under First Air Force or Air Forces Northern.
http://www.acc.af.mil/main/welcome.asp (http://www.acc.af.mil/main/welcome.asp)
QuoteThe Civil Air Patrol is a significant partner in search and rescue and other DSCA missions.
We've always worked with 1AF, but our organization is under AETC.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 23, 2015, 10:18:37 PM
While I'm certainly not predicting that anything will happen because of this, it certainly isn't terribly good news for the cadet program since in a broad way it represents some sort of switch in attitudes about what the AF thinks CAP is about.
This, most likely is good for CAP. On the Ops side, our missions may expand and offer us an increased footprint. On the AE side, we can still utilize AU resources. On the CP side, our connection with ACC may give us a recruiting tool, and a expansion of our allowance to fund. I am optimistic.
I'm glad to see this is finally happening, for many of the reasons already mentioned. I used to get eye rolls from colonels when I would bring this idea up. Good for the organization...
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
I guess that means that we need flying CAP Vans... >:D
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
.......ehmm.........we fly.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 23, 2015, 10:18:37 PM
While I'm certainly not predicting that anything will happen because of this, it certainly isn't terribly good news for the cadet program since in a broad way it represents some sort of switch in attitudes about what the AF thinks CAP is about.
It was explained to me (by the CAP-USAF chain not CAP) the only reason CAP was under AETC in the first place was the coincidental fact that both CAP and JROTC/ROTC had cadets.
On the operational side the plus is that the component that tasks CAP "owns" CAP. If I recall correctly it "would" make it easier for 1st AF to task and fund CAP operations, because they dont have to ask someone else (cross commands) to fix, fund, communicate with, make available etc etc the assets they need for a particular task.
mk
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Yeah, just remember folks, ACC is owned and operated by the Fighter Pilot Mafia...
Quote from: PHall on April 25, 2015, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Yeah, just remember folks, ACC is owned and operated by the Fighter Pilot Mafia...
Does that mean we can hang some AIM-9s under the wings?
Quote from: PHall on April 25, 2015, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Yeah, just remember folks, ACC is owned and operated by the Fighter Pilot Mafia...
Which is a good thing for us in this case.....because the last thing the FPM wants to do is inland SAR. So we will always have a job.
;)
Quote from: PHall on April 25, 2015, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Yeah, just remember folks, ACC is owned and operated by the Fighter Pilot Mafia...
And how is that different from the AETC fighter pilot "mafia"?
- CAP-USAF/CC — F-15 pilot
- AU/CC — F-15 pilot
- AETC/CC — F-16/CC
Possibly the place where CAP belongs is AMC; the successor of Military Airlift Command. MAC was the former home for miscellaneous flying related "services" - Airways and Air Communications Service (under it's predecessor Military Air Transport Service), Air Weather Service, and Air Rescue Service. But CAP won't ever be placed under AMC.
The "problem" is CAP's diverse nature.
Our Emergency Services mission is clearly a good fit with ACC since ACC "owns" AFRCC. The Air Force Rescue units belong to ACC too.
The Cadet Program is a more natural fit with AETC. Since that's where AFJROTC and AFROTC are slotted too.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on April 25, 2015, 02:24:10 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 25, 2015, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 24, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
Good luck on funding with ACC if it dont fly they dont buy.
Yeah, just remember folks, ACC is owned and operated by the Fighter Pilot Mafia...
And how is that different from the AETC fighter pilot "mafia"?
- CAP-USAF/CC — F-15 pilot
- AU/CC — F-15 pilot
- AETC/CC — F-16/CC
Just remember the alternate name for Air Force Pilot Wings = Universial Management Badge.
With very limited exceptions, Pilot Wings are a requirement to enter the Command Track in the Air Force.
Quote from: PHall on April 25, 2015, 05:57:25 AM
The "problem" is CAP's diverse nature.
Our Emergency Services mission is clearly a good fit with ACC since ACC "owns" AFRCC. The Air Force Rescue units belong to ACC too.
The Cadet Program is a more natural fit with AETC. Since that's where AFJROTC and AFROTC are slotted too.
I think , in very broad terms, its easier to get an operations focused group to understand a training function than to get a training focused group to understand operations.
ie... I was one day trouble shooting a radio failure on the aviation radio that i needed to communicate with an in bound helo to my lz....an aetc ltc decided this was the best time to tell me about my crooked flight suit name tag and improperly rolled sleeves.....
MK