At tonight's meeting, the CC and I sat down and had a discussion about reinstatement of grade, which raised a few questions about how to proceed. Long story short, I'm a previous Earhart Cadet turned Senior Member 1st Lt, now returning with more than a 2 year absence.
Prior to the latest version of the 35-5, once Level I was complete, at the CC's discretion he could fill out a form 2, and reinstate my previous grade. Under the current version, the same is true, but I now need to attain the PD level of that previous grade before reinstatement. With the new changes, PD changed as well, now requiring Level II completion for promotion to 1st Lt, rather than just a Technician rating.
For Level II, my final requirement will be SLS, which I will attend in August.
My question for the group, if the CC reinstates me 1 rank below my previous, can he then promote me to 1st Lt in August when I finish Level II, or would I have to wait TIG from 2nd Lt to 1st? If he holds off, and I wait the 6 months TIG as a SMWOG and get promoted to 2d Lt in July, will he be able to reinstate me in August when I finish Level II, or would I have to wait TIG in that case as well?
If putting in for 2d Lt now will mess up my 1st Lt, I would rather forego the butterbars and go with no grade till the end of summer, but if I'm going to have to wait 18 months between 2d and 1st Lt anyway, it would make more sense to just ask for the bars.
Have any of you run into this? What would be the proper way to proceed? This isn't a rant, or me whining about bling, just trying to figure out the route with the least amount of issues down the road.
There's two reads I see.
One is former cadet - which means you get the "equivalency" of the grade, but need to catch up on all of the PD for your next promotion.
Second is returning member, which gets foggy. I have no clue how to interpret this:
Quote3-7. Former Members. A former member may be reinstated to the same grade held prior to
voluntary membership termination, provided he or she qualifies for that grade under current
criteria (including applicable professional development criteria).
I suppose what they are saying is that if you got 1st Lt as a Former cadet, but never did the PD before leaving for some reason, now you can't get re-instated grade because you don't have the PD done?
Quite odd...
Its been a while since I dealt with that, but if memory serves..... EServices is not going to allow a direct promotion by your CC w/o filling the TIG requirement.
That's what it looks like to me.
I was promoted to 1st Lt due to Earhart, and then completed Level I and a tech rating as a Senior before leaving, so when I left my PD was through 1st Lt. Now they've changed criteria for 1st Lt, and now require Level II, which will require SLS, which the Wing will be doing in August.
Quote from: capmaj on March 20, 2015, 03:20:01 AM
Its been a while since I dealt with that, but if memory serves..... EServices is not going to allow a direct promotion by your CC w/o filling the TIG requirement.
Which would be waived with a form 2 reinstating previous grade now, but could a form 2 be filed in August after being promoted to 2d Lt in July?
Have you looked at promotion using your Earhart instead of reinstatement?
Question is...can he?
That section says former cadets.
He is a former SM.
As far as I know, Earhart only works with less than a 2 year membership gap correct?
Looks to me like the PD requirement is going to bite you in the butt on a technicality since leaving basically undoes your cadet-to-senior string you had to be up at 1st Lt for some weird reason.
Quote from: S/M Thompson on March 20, 2015, 04:13:32 AM
As far as I know, Earhart only works with less than a 2 year membership gap correct?
Nope. The 2 year limit determines whether you need to complete the Foundations or not.
I am a former cadet who earned the Earhart. By the time I was able to document it after a 18 year break, I had a month until I had completed the TIG for 1st Lt. The paperwork process would have taken longer.
Quote from: CAPR 35-5
NOTE: Members applying for duty performance promotions during the period 11 August 2014
to 11 August 2018 may use the previous duty performance promotion requirements for their
next promotion. The member's present date of grade must be prior to 11 August 2014 in order
to be eligible for this grandfather clause. This clause may only be used once for the member's
next promotion
Could that help in August after you complete SLS? I know it's not technically a next promotion but could the same waiver be used for a reinstatement?
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on March 20, 2015, 04:06:53 AM
Question is...can he?
That section says former cadets.
He is a former SM.
He is still a former cadet.
Which ever is most advantageous to the member....and of course is approved by the commander should be the rule that applies.
The options are 1) He comes in as a SM and starts from scratch.
2) He comes in at he previous rank (assuming he still meets the criteria)
3) He comes in as a 1st LT due to his Earhart.
I don't see any provisions where he can come in as a 2d Lt.....unless I have missed something in para 3-7.
A quick question to KB may be in order to see if the commander can bring you in as a 2d LT....but your TIG would start on the date that that promotion was awarded....so you would not be putting on 1st Lt in August.
Another option.....is to stay a SM until August and then apply for your former rank.
MSgt Harris, will eservices automatically make me a 2d Lt in July when TIG is met, or can I stay a SMWOG for another month and then apply for reinstatement at 1st Lt after completing SLS?
Quote from: arajca on March 20, 2015, 06:02:11 AM
Quote from: S/M Thompson on March 20, 2015, 04:13:32 AM
As far as I know, Earhart only works with less than a 2 year membership gap correct?
Nope. The 2 year limit determines whether you need to complete the Foundations or not.
I am a former cadet who earned the Earhart. By the time I was able to document it after a 18 year break, I had a month until I had completed the TIG for 1st Lt. The paperwork process would have taken longer.
I have my physical Earhart certificate, and it shows in eservices, so proving it wouldn't be a problem. The form 2 does list Earhart as a reason for promotion, but I'm not sure if that would work without meeting the PD requirements for 1st Lt.
No promotion is automatic....someone has to initiate it.
And the Earhart promotion still works....regardless of your PD status.
You can request either a special appointment for being a former Earhart cadet or grade reinstatement for being a former member. The Earhart is your best bet.
Special appointments have nothing to do with current grades, so you could be promoted by your commander to 2d Lt and shortly after, if approved, to 1st Lt. But why would you want to? Why spend money on grade insignias you would only wear for a few weeks?
I recommend you pursue a promotion based on your Earhart and then continue working to catch up with your PD.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 20, 2015, 01:28:49 PM
And the Earhart promotion still works....regardless of your PD status.
This seems to be the ticket, I appreciate all of the advice. I can't find anything in 35-5 that contradicts the fact that Earhart=1st Lt regardless of PD.
While digging, I also came across the following KB link:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1080/kw/former%20earhart%20cadet/session/L3RpbWUvMTQyNjg1NDczNS9zaWQvbnJOa2tOaG0%3D (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1080/kw/former%20earhart%20cadet/session/L3RpbWUvMTQyNjg1NDczNS9zaWQvbnJOa2tOaG0%3D)
I was unaware that the Earhart also granted a Technician Rating in CP. A C/LtCol in our Squadron mentioned it to me once, but the PDO thought she was incorrect, and I didn't know which reg to look in, and what exactly I was looking for.
Ok so you were a cadet then turned SM and used your Earhart for advanced promotion and then left? I would think that you can't use milestone achievements for advanced promotion more than once.
If this were true, it would have to state so somewhere in the regs?
Quote from: abdsp51 on March 20, 2015, 02:24:22 PM
Ok so you were a cadet then turned SM and used your Earhart for advanced promotion and then left? I would think that you can't use milestone achievements for advanced promotion more than once.
Have done it myself a few times as well as seen others do it. They have yet to baulk at it in the past. I doubt they would start now.
I agree. Go with the route that is most advantageous to the member. If NHQ has a problem with it, they will reject it.
Quote from: S/M Thompson on March 20, 2015, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on March 20, 2015, 01:28:49 PM
And the Earhart promotion still works....regardless of your PD status.
This seems to be the ticket, I appreciate all of the advice. I can't find anything in 35-5 that contradicts the fact that Earhart=1st Lt regardless of PD.
While digging, I also came across the following KB link:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1080/kw/former%20earhart%20cadet/session/L3RpbWUvMTQyNjg1NDczNS9zaWQvbnJOa2tOaG0%3D (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1080/kw/former%20earhart%20cadet/session/L3RpbWUvMTQyNjg1NDczNS9zaWQvbnJOa2tOaG0%3D)
I was unaware that the Earhart also granted a Technician Rating in CP. A C/LtCol in our Squadron mentioned it to me once, but the PDO thought she was incorrect, and I didn't know which reg to look in, and what exactly I was looking for.
CAPR 50-17, section 9-1 covers the requirements for the Technician and Senior Ratings in CP based on the Earhart and Spaatz Awards, respectively. These are not automatic and are awarded on an "individual basis". The rating must be requested through NHQ/DRP after approved by your commander. Personally, I would only approve it for someone demonstrating equivalent knowledge to that required by CAPP 216 for the rating being requested. I would also take into account the length of the break in membership and the level of training and experience of the individual. That said, it's up to your commander to determine whether to request it or not.
True. Wasn't the purpose of the post anyway, just something I found while digging, but I can brush up on the CP regs and then have a conversation with the CC about it eventually.
The same goes for grade appointment, promotion or reinstatement; none of them are automatic and require commander's approval. Talk to your commander and see what he (or she) wants to do.
We actually have 3 seniors who came back in January after a long absence, all with previous grade, so the Commander already decided he would reinstate us, if he could. The other 2 situations were pretty clear, but he wasn't sure how to proceed with mine, so now we have clear direction.
Incidentally, you said "Personally, I would only approve it for someone demonstrating equivalent knowledge to that required by CAPP 216 for the rating being requested." In your opinion, would successfully passing the technician exam be sufficient to demonstrate equivalent knowledge, or would you require more if it were you. I'll have a sit down with the CC in 2 weeks (he'll be gone next week), and if I mention that excerpt in the reg, it might be beneficial to have the tech quiz completed and passed.
Quote from: S/M Thompson on March 20, 2015, 07:20:38 PM
We actually have 3 seniors who came back in January after a long absence, all with previous grade, so the Commander already decided he would reinstate us, if he could. The other 2 situations were pretty clear, but he wasn't sure how to proceed with mine, so now we have clear direction.
Incidentally, you said "Personally, I would only approve it for someone demonstrating equivalent knowledge to that required by CAPP 216 for the rating being requested." In your opinion, would successfully passing the technician exam be sufficient to demonstrate equivalent knowledge, or would you require more if it were you. I'll have a sit down with the CC in 2 weeks (he'll be gone next week), and if I mention that excerpt in the reg, it might be beneficial to have the tech quiz completed and passed.
Just to clarify, this is just my opinion. I wouldn't use a single criteria, but would definitely consider that as part of the whole. Mainly, I would look at the member's training, experience, achievements and contributions. I would have a talk to see where he or she really is in the program. I'm looking to see if granting this rating will not only benefit the member, but the cadets and organization as a whole.
+1.
Someone who got their Earhart before they were numbered and hasn't thought of CAP since is different that someone who rolled over under the more modern program.
He's already used the Earhart Option. He can be reinstated to the grade of 1LT upon completing the existing requirements of the grade, which is award of the Davis Award. I would wait for the receipt of the award before sending in any paperwork. You may also want to check nearby Wings to see if they have an earlier SLS.
I'm a previous Earhart Cadet turned Senior Member 1st Lt, now returning with more than a 2 year absence.
I read it as, you got 1st Lt permanently, you earned the Earhart. The two year plus break requires you to do Level I, CPPT and OPSEC. 8)