Amended to add the "National Executive Officer" as restricted from serving as BoG Member at Large, and changes the CSAG and CCouncil
to include that title as well.
Allows for the National Commander to designate a direct report for "special" and Overseas units.
http://capmembers.com/media/cms/CAP_Constitution_Bylaws_4BC09E935985F.pdf (http://capmembers.com/media/cms/CAP_Constitution_Bylaws_4BC09E935985F.pdf)
*yawn*
Way above my pay grade.
Whatever.
We no longer have a Constitution and Bylaws, we have 27 edicts that supposedly run this organization that can change at the whim of a a de facto junta. This organization lost its constitution and Bylaws when the National Board and NEC were disbanded.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 26, 2015, 02:57:38 AM
Whatever.
We no longer have a Constitution and Bylaws, we have 27 edicts that supposedly run this organization that can change at the whim of a a de facto junta. This organization lost its constitution and Bylaws when the National Board and NEC were disbanded.
Hate a little?
No, being truthful.
When the constitution that outlines how your organization is run can be changed by a simple majority vote from a committee of eleven at pretty much any time then you really don't have one.
So Johnny, you're still a member why?
To get back on track for a few seconds...
Maybe I'm lost but can anyone explain what the "national executive officer" is?
I have not slept in a little over 27 hours so maybe I'm out of it, but that title is new to me.
Used to be Chief of Staff?
I know that a rewrite of 20-1 is in the works....seems like they are just getting their terms aligned.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 26, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
No, being truthful.
When the constitution that outlines how your organization is run can be changed by a simple majority vote from a committee of eleven at pretty much any time then you really don't have one.
That's a pretty normal board size. CAP is the only large non-profit I ever saw that had 3 governing bodies...
Quote from: PHall on January 26, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
So Johnny, you're still a member why?
For the same reason most everyone else is. Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the Kabuki theater that it's become at the top, however.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 27, 2015, 02:04:03 AM
Quote from: PHall on January 26, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
So Johnny, you're still a member why?
For the same reason most everyone else is. Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the Kabuki theater that it's become at the top, however.
Honestly, I'd say our current model is waaaay less kabuki than the old one.
Quote from: JC004 on January 27, 2015, 12:52:36 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 26, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
No, being truthful.
When the constitution that outlines how your organization is run can be changed by a simple majority vote from a committee of eleven at pretty much any time then you really don't have one.
That's a pretty normal board size. CAP is the only large non-profit I ever saw that had 3 governing bodies...
Board of Governors is the only governing body. CSAG and CC are only there to run the sub-divisions (Region and Wing). No different than other Corporations that have Division, Region, and Local management.
Quote from: MSG Mac on January 27, 2015, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: JC004 on January 27, 2015, 12:52:36 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 26, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
No, being truthful.
When the constitution that outlines how your organization is run can be changed by a simple majority vote from a committee of eleven at pretty much any time then you really don't have one.
That's a pretty normal board size. CAP is the only large non-profit I ever saw that had 3 governing bodies...
Board of Governors is the only governing body. CSAG and CC are only there to run the sub-divisions (Region and Wing). No different than other Corporations that have Division, Region, and Local management.
I'd give CSAG a bit of credit as a partial governing body, in that they have exclusive authority to elect 4 of the 11 seats on the BoG.
Quote from: MSG Mac on January 27, 2015, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: JC004 on January 27, 2015, 12:52:36 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 26, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
No, being truthful.
When the constitution that outlines how your organization is run can be changed by a simple majority vote from a committee of eleven at pretty much any time then you really don't have one.
That's a pretty normal board size. CAP is the only large non-profit I ever saw that had 3 governing bodies...
Board of Governors is the only governing body. CSAG and CC are only there to run the sub-divisions (Region and Wing). No different than other Corporations that have Division, Region, and Local management.
I said "had." The conflicting roles and tug of war made the BoardSource stuff necessary.
Quote from: NCRblues on January 27, 2015, 12:32:55 AM
To get back on track for a few seconds...
Maybe I'm lost but can anyone explain what the "national executive officer" is?
I have not slept in a little over 27 hours so maybe I'm out of it, but that title is new to me.
The Chief Executive Officer of CAP is the National Commander, however the National Executive Officer is a new position which has the same authority (as I seem to see it) as the old National Chief of Staff.
Why the change in name is beyond me, however in the military, the Chief of Staff is a title that is above all other military positions... Just sayn' :angel:
Had the pleasure to meet the National Executive Officer at Wing/Region Conference today ironically enough.
That said, changing the title from Chief of Staff to Executive Officer comes as no surprise, as that is in alignment with the USAF, plus I've often seen the term used at Encampment for the Cadet in charge of the Cadet support staff.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_officer:
QuoteThe United States Air Force (USAF), in a manner similar to the U.S. Army, the term "executive officer" (XO) in the U.S. Air Force is not a command/second-in-command position. Instead, it is used to designate a company grade officer or junior field grade officer who serves as a staff administrative assistant to a senior officer, typically a commander at the squadron level or above (e.g., squadron, group, wing, numbered air force, major command). In the other uniformed services, this position may be called an aide, an "executive assistant" or an adjutant. Like the Army, while experience gained as an XO is highly beneficial for an Air Force officer's professional development, it is not necessarily a prerequisite for a command position. For officers holding second-in-command positions, the USAF uses the titles of "vice commander" (CV), or "deputy commander" (CD) for an officer who serves as the second-in-command for an organization above squadron level. For a squadron, the second-in-command is typically termed the "director of operations" or "operations officer" (DO).
There are also officers assigned as "aide-de-camp" to general officers in the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force or U.S. Marine Corps, or as "flag aide" or "flag lieutenant" to flag officers (i.e., rear admiral and above) in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard. The rank of an executive officer in the U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force can vary from lieutenant or captain working for a colonel to a colonel (serving as the executive officer to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force.
A unique application of the term is executive officer to the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, and commander, United States European Command. This position is typically held by a brigadier general or rear admiral (LH) and is drawn from all of the armed services. The duties involve serving as both an "executive assistant" to Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) and also includes command responsibilities for the U.S. military community at Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) in Belgium.
Quote from: Brad on February 01, 2015, 01:45:27 AM
Had the pleasure to meet the National Executive Officer at Wing/Region Conference today ironically enough.
That said, changing the title from Chief of Staff to Executive Officer comes as no surprise, as that is in alignment with the USAF, plus I've often seen the term used at Encampment for the Cadet in charge of the Cadet support staff.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_officer:
QuoteThe United States Air Force (USAF), in a manner similar to the U.S. Army, the term "executive officer" (XO) in the U.S. Air Force is not a command/second-in-command position. Instead, it is used to designate a company grade officer or junior field grade officer who serves as a staff administrative assistant to a senior officer, typically a commander at the squadron level or above (e.g., squadron, group, wing, numbered air force, major command). In the other uniformed services, this position may be called an aide, an "executive assistant" or an adjutant. Like the Army, while experience gained as an XO is highly beneficial for an Air Force officer's professional development, it is not necessarily a prerequisite for a command position. For officers holding second-in-command positions, the USAF uses the titles of "vice commander" (CV), or "deputy commander" (CD) for an officer who serves as the second-in-command for an organization above squadron level. For a squadron, the second-in-command is typically termed the "director of operations" or "operations officer" (DO).
There are also officers assigned as "aide-de-camp" to general officers in the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force or U.S. Marine Corps, or as "flag aide" or "flag lieutenant" to flag officers (i.e., rear admiral and above) in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard. The rank of an executive officer in the U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force can vary from lieutenant or captain working for a colonel to a colonel (serving as the executive officer to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force.
A unique application of the term is executive officer to the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, and commander, United States European Command. This position is typically held by a brigadier general or rear admiral (LH) and is drawn from all of the armed services. The duties involve serving as both an "executive assistant" to Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) and also includes command responsibilities for the U.S. military community at Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) in Belgium.
In the Air Force, Executive Officers are usually junior officers and have mostly administrative functions. They're nowhere analogous to a Chief of Staff, which as the title implies, is responsible for managing the staff.
Quote from: Brad on February 01, 2015, 01:45:27 AMI've often seen the term used at Encampment for the Cadet in charge of the Cadet support staff.
Now transitioning as an option to Operations Support Officer, which is much more in line with the actual duties.
XO's usually have command authority in the absence of the commander, and Ops officer doesn't.
That deck chair looks really great on the other side of the ship. Man that iceberg is close...
Quote from: Eclipse on February 01, 2015, 02:14:53 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 01, 2015, 01:45:27 AMI've often seen the term used at Encampment for the Cadet in charge of the Cadet support staff.
Now transitioning as an option to Operations Support Officer, which is much more in line with the actual duties.
XO's usually have command authority in the absence of the commander, and Ops officer doesn't.
Air Force operational squadrons don't have deputy commanders, only groups do. That's why the operations officer is second in command. Someone has to be.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 01, 2015, 03:53:46 PMAir Force operational squadrons don't have deputy commanders, only groups do. That's why the operations officer is second in command. Someone has to be.
This is Operations
Support - not the same thing.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 01, 2015, 02:14:53 AM
XO's usually have command authority in the absence of the commander, and Ops officer doesn't.
Are you talking USAF organizations? Because you are wrong wrong wrong on that one.
Quote from: lordmonar on February 01, 2015, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 01, 2015, 02:14:53 AM
XO's usually have command authority in the absence of the commander, and Ops officer doesn't.
Are you talking USAF organizations?
No.
I realize that the USAF and Army doesn't use XO for second in command, which is why it is inappropriate as a role in CAP.
XO for the Army and USAF is generally akin to administrative assistant or adjutant.
I always found it odd that XO was included in encampment staff orgs, and am glad to see it being officially
listed as optional now in the curriculum.
In the Army only Brigades and higher have Deputy Commanders, Executive Officer are the second in command for Groups, Regiments and Battalions. Even some companies have XO positions.
Chief of Staff normally exist at the Division level and higher in the Army as well.
Quote from: shuman14 on February 01, 2015, 08:25:10 PM
In the Army only Brigades and higher have Deputy Commanders, Executive Officer are the second in command for Groups, Regiments and Battalions. Even some companies have XO positions.
Chief of Staff normally exist at the Division level and higher in the Army as well.
Regiments have Deputy Commanders
Quote from: shuman14 on February 01, 2015, 08:25:10 PM
In the Army only Brigades and higher have Deputy Commanders, Executive Officer are the second in command for Groups, Regiments and Battalions. Even some companies have XO positions.
Chief of Staff normally exist at the Division level and higher in the Army as well.
And even then, the XO may or may not be in the Chain. WIWOADS* in a rifle company, the second in command was the Senior Platoon Leader. The XO was admin/logistics support working closely with the 1st Sgt. In my ASA Detachment, the XO was next in command.
*When I Was On Active Drill Status ;D
Quote from: JK657 on February 06, 2015, 08:32:11 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on February 01, 2015, 08:25:10 PM
In the Army only Brigades and higher have Deputy Commanders, Executive Officer are the second in command for Groups, Regiments and Battalions. Even some companies have XO positions.
Chief of Staff normally exist at the Division level and higher in the Army as well.
Regiments have Deputy Commanders
Depends on the type of regiment, if it's an ACR (Armored Cavalry regiment), it's really an Armored Brigade and only called a "Regiment" for historical lineages purposes. As I'm sure you know, for the most part, regiments ceased to be a functioning tactical unit a long time ago.
In Combat Arms units they exist mainly to trace lineages and to determine which DUI a given unit wears on its uniform. They have no headquarters, a commander or staff.
In non-combat arms units, they exist as the "schoolhouse" for the Branch. For example, the Commandant of the USAMPS (US Army Military Police School) is also the MP Regiment "Regimental Commander".
Other than that regiments that exist as any type of functional unit are few and far between. Seen them as training units in the USAR and those have a commander and XO.
Quote from: wacapgh on February 06, 2015, 09:13:39 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on February 01, 2015, 08:25:10 PM
In the Army only Brigades and higher have Deputy Commanders, Executive Officer are the second in command for Groups, Regiments and Battalions. Even some companies have XO positions.
Chief of Staff normally exist at the Division level and higher in the Army as well.
And even then, the XO may or may not be in the Chain. WIWOADS* in a rifle company, the second in command was the Senior Platoon Leader. The XO was admin/logistics support working closely with the 1st Sgt. In my ASA Detachment, the XO was next in command.
*When I Was On Active Drill Status ;D
I haven't been assigned to an Infantry unit since I was an ROTC SMP Cadet, which was the early 1990's. That being said, my company XO back then was the second in command, did most of the admin/logistics, and was not a platoon leader. :-\
Different units, different MTO&E, different times, etc. It's by no way a "hard and fast" situation across the armed forces.