Recently, we had a change of command ceremony and the flag was passed from person A to person B.
The opinions I am soliciting are what should A be doing next? Should they remain in the squadron as a mentor to B? Or, should they go do other things.
Some of the members of the squadron are of the opinion that B will never be able to establish themselves as the commander if A is always around as all current member are so used to going to them. Some think that having A there to give guidance to B and step in as necessary is a good thing.
Surely this has happened many times before in CAP and so I would like to find out your thoughts on which has worked better, or if there are additional options.
More information - A was given a group-level position and is still coming to the squadron on meeting nights and stays all through the meeting, but does not have a formal squadron function at this time.
:-\
A should be doing his new job and letting B establish his precense.
A's time would better spent going to other units or working with wing in his new capacity.
In general it would probably be best if A uses their experience in a higher level of CAP. However, it wouldn't hurt anything if they stayed at the squadron.
This is one of the key differences I see between CG Aux and CAP -- In CG Aux you ALWAYS stay in your flotilla even if you take on additional duties at a higher level. So, when I was the Aux flotilla commander I had probably at least 6 former flotilla commanders that were actually still active in the unit. Not once did any of them horn in where they shouldn't have, and they were invaluable to have around.
My opinion is that very few former CAP squadron commanders stick around after they leave the position either because they have moved up or they leave the organization -- either because they were forced out by the GOBs or had been kept in the squadron commander position so long that they just need to get away. Hopefully, as squadron commander term limits take effect the latter becomes less of an issue.
My opinion is that A would be welcome to stick around as long as he/she practices the following statement: "Thanks for asking my opinion, but you really need to discuss this with the squadron commander."
The unforeseen consequence s that in today's CAP reality, that Unit CC is probably also holding 3 other important jobs,
and possibly doing one of them 100% (or more).
It takes a special person to stay on as an ESO or CPO and doing things "differently" once you've been the CC.
In a perfect world we're all on the same team, and there is transition planning - I benefited from that multiple times,
but I always made it a point to stay away once the keys were turned over to give the new guys his chance.
In my first command i had the circumstance where my predecessor did not step back right away, which essentially
resulted in two camps and more inertia then necessary.
My 10 cents, based on my experience from the regular military and civilian employment.....
Person A should stay away for at least 3 months, politely defer all telephone calls and emails to the new CC and politely decline any invitations to social events that might give the staff the opportunity to complain about the new guy....Take some time to enjoy the load coming off and to get fully engaged in the new position.
After about 3 months, if A really is missing the 'squadron life' then by all means ask the new CC if they can attend a meeting or two each month. Better still, find another squadron to be part of if they can.
A should do B a real favor and make sure B knows how to get hold of them in that 3 months.....you know, for the odd thing that turns up that got missed in the turnover! After 3 months, A is on their own!
Truly, though, the best thing is to go away and stay away. That said, we have a former CC on staff but he didn't come back until nearly 3 years after his tenure and two wing staff jobs. He also contacted the current CC quietly first. When he's with us, he adds value and nobody on the staff now actually recalls him as the CC.
My 2 cents. A lot depends on B. When I handed over, the new CC was rather weak, and after a couple months of hand holding, I had to take myself out of the picture completely to make him do the job. He resigned after about 1 year in office due to a move, and the new guy took over. Much different personality. I was frequently around (Squadron shares HQ with Wing) and able to (privately) help point him in the right direction, but he acted as a commander, and there were no issues with me being nearby.
^ A good point.
A should definitely make himself available for transition issues and mentoring in the background, unless or until B says
something to the effect of "I got this." This is one reason why transition planning and training is so important.
If the CDs are actually doing their jobs, and being effective, they really should be the heir apparent, and the transition
shouldn't be all that jarring. If there aren't any, or they are in name only, things will be much harder.
I stayed away from CAP for about three months after I stepped down as Squadron CC. Gave the new guy some space. Also, I needed a break from CAP.
When I stepped down as Group CC, I moved 350 miles away. ;D Gave the new guy plenty of space that time, probably more than he wanted (same guy who replaced me as Sq CC, actually).
I am of the opinion that former commanders should stay in the background, at least initially. Don't want people thinking there are two bosses. After the new command team has established itself, it's usually not a problem that a former commander happens to be around from time to time.
It depends on the Unit's culture. One SQ I know has six or seven former Commanders on their Staff. They know they are a "team". You do your tour as CC and then your back being the Supply Guy or the Comm Gal.
Another SQ has a kingdom mentiality. Now with term limits they 'hope' the overbearing former commander takes a Group or Wing job like his predcessor did. 8)
We had a change of command in 2012. Our former CC is still in the unit, very active in his new "billet," and does not interfere, interpose or otherwise make his presence known in command matters.
A broadly similar situation is when a former pastor of mine described when he would retire. I asked him if he would do as other pastors often do and stay on as "pastor emeritus." He flatly said "No, because then I would feel that I am getting in the way of the new pastor and his ministry."
I can see good and bad in both paths, It depends greatly upon the culture of the squadron.
In my old squadron, back in the early '80's, there were no term limits. A CC remained CC until either he/she could no longer serve in that capacity or was forcibly removed from the job due to inability to perform.
Our old CC was removed from the job by the Group commander -- this stemmed from a number of complaints. Basically the old CC was an Alpha Hotel who was destroying unit morale. Unfortunately he remained with the squadron and ruled the unit through his rather weak and unsteady replacement. It did not end well.
I have also seen where the old CC remained and did other things. Transition went smooth and all went well. There are no easy answers as each squadron has it's own culture.
Former commanders should either take a post at a higher HQ (if possible), or, if remaining in the local squadron is the only alternative, keep a very low profile for the first 3-6 months of a new command.
In my mind, this ought to include a 'sabbatical' from weekly meetings for 2-3 months...just participating in training, missions, special events -- and then in a very low key way.
I agree with Treadhead. It depends on the unit and the individuals involved.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 19, 2014, 07:15:57 PM
Former commanders should either take a post at a higher HQ (if possible), or, if remaining in the local squadron is the only alternative, keep a very low profile for the first 3-6 months of a new command.
In my mind, this ought to include a 'sabbatical' from weekly meetings for 2-3 months...just participating in training, missions, special events -- and then in a very low key way.
Why?
The former commander should stay in his new lane.....but why "kick" him out of CAP for 2-3 months?
If CAP is going to push the term limits issue.....then they better be putting people in charge that can manage the "old commander" issues.
This issue should be resolved before the Change of Command. What position would you be willing to serve in? Will you be moving to another unit or staying here? etc.
This shouldn't be an issue at all.....
The successor should be known a few months in advance of the change and by the time the new commander comes in, he/she should have probably been at the helm of making most of the decisions already. Interesting reading comments that the old commander waits for new commander to say "I got this" That training and prep should have been done long before they every took over. As the commander, I had no issue fading into being the guy who made sure the refrigerator stayed stocked. Most CC's I know are more than happy to just sit back and be a face in the crowd for a while.
Moving up to a higher command? Ehhhhh.... this isnt the military. No requirement for that and no interest on the part of most people. Taking a 3-6 month break from meetings? Did your people hate you? Ive never seen CAP so engrossed with a particular commander that the old commander had to disappear for a few months. In my 20+ yr involvement with CAP its a pretty friendly change...... Well, except for the one I was part of where the Group Commander said "You and him (my sidekick) need to take over the Sq or the unit is probably going to be shut down." >:D In that case, it was really time for the old regime to take a permanent break.
Quote from: lordmonar on September 19, 2014, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 19, 2014, 07:15:57 PM
Former commanders should either take a post at a higher HQ (if possible), or, if remaining in the local squadron is the only alternative, keep a very low profile for the first 3-6 months of a new command.
In my mind, this ought to include a 'sabbatical' from weekly meetings for 2-3 months...just participating in training, missions, special events -- and then in a very low key way.
Why?
The former commander should stay in his new lane.....but why "kick" him out of CAP for 2-3 months?
If CAP is going to push the term limits issue.....then they better be putting people in charge that can manage the "old commander" issues.
To give the new CC the opportunity to fully establish her/himself in command.
I'm not kicking anyone out of CAP...just suggesting they steer clear of the home unit for awhile...might be a chance to help another squadron in the vicinity on an ADY basis, since we all have CAP specialties earned and learned prior to command service.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 20, 2014, 06:52:12 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on September 19, 2014, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 19, 2014, 07:15:57 PM
Former commanders should either take a post at a higher HQ (if possible), or, if remaining in the local squadron is the only alternative, keep a very low profile for the first 3-6 months of a new command.
In my mind, this ought to include a 'sabbatical' from weekly meetings for 2-3 months...just participating in training, missions, special events -- and then in a very low key way.
Why?
The former commander should stay in his new lane.....but why "kick" him out of CAP for 2-3 months?
If CAP is going to push the term limits issue.....then they better be putting people in charge that can manage the "old commander" issues.
To give the new CC the opportunity to fully establish her/himself in command.
I'm not kicking anyone out of CAP...just suggesting they steer clear of the home unit for awhile...might be a chance to help another squadron in the vicinity on an ADY basis, since we all have CAP specialties earned and learned prior to command service.
I know why are suggesting they take a break......I disagree that it should be policy or suggested as "a good idea".
If the old commander can't squash the temptation to back seat command or undermine the new commander's authority.....then the new commander should deal with it.
As is true more often than not, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 20, 2014, 07:00:38 PM
As is true more often than not, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!
Geeeez..... some of you guys were part of a much different CAP than I was
Quote from: lordmonar on September 20, 2014, 06:55:59 PM
I know why are suggesting they take a break......I disagree that it should be policy or suggested as "a good idea".
If the old commander can't squash the temptation to back seat command or undermine the new commander's authority.....then the new commander should deal with it.
Because we all know how much command imperative exists in the average CAP unit or from their next echelon.
There's never been a case in CAP history where the previous commander sowed discontent from the back row
and worked against the new guy, and the new guy just walked instead of dealing with it. That's OK, though, right?
Because every unit has like 5 other guys ready and wiling to command thanks to CAP's robust recruiting
and development programs. why make things easier on the new guy when we can avoid making the last guy sad?
I walked that road myself, and it's no fun. I was able and prepared to tell people to "follow or leave", but
for those not so inclined, I can't imagine how unpleasent an experience it would be to have to run things
while "Lt Col Jimmy whispers about me in the back room..."
How many companies think it's a good idea for a department manager to go back to the line
when they are replaced?
What does the USAF do with unit CCs when their time it up?
The policy should be "up, elsewhere, or out" at least for a year.
What you're missing is that term limits and knowing it's not going to be your show, put good commanders
against a clock to get things done, and puts bad ones on notice that no tyranny is infinite.
Basic management 101 issues CAP can't seem to understand.
And we have had more were the old commander is a valuable contributing member who understands his role. I am not saying there are not problems. Just that instead of making BS policy we let commanders deal with it if needed
Quote from: Eclipse on September 20, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
I walked that road myself, and it's no fun. I was able and prepared to tell people to "follow or leave", but for those not so inclined, I can't imagine how unpleasent an experience it would be to have to run things while "Lt Col Jimmy whispers about me in the back room..."
I have not really been in that situation in CAP, because all I have been is a Deputy Commander.
However, should such a situation happen to me in CAP, I would deal with it as I would in any other situation.
My dad told me from day one that if someone says something behind your back it's because they haven't the guts to say it to your face, and if you hear of something being "whispered," you call them on it and kibosh it before it has a chance to grow any more.
That is the way I have always dealt with it. I find the person purportedly responsible, take them aside (praise in public, admonish in private, remember?) and ask them if it is true what they have been saying. If they have the courage to own up to it, I tell them, "if you knock it off right now I'll forget this happened." However, if they get pigheaded with me...that is another story.
Quote from: lordmonar on September 21, 2014, 03:37:27 AM
And we have had more were the old commander is a valuable contributing member who understands his role. I am not saying there are not problems. Just that instead of making BS policy we let commanders deal with it if needed
Repeating now...
Quote from: lordmonar on September 20, 2014, 06:55:59 PM
How many companies think it's a good idea for a department manager to go back to the line
when they are replaced?
What does the USAF do with unit CCs when their time it up?
I'm certainly glad some of you are not writing policy. I would have missed out on the last 29 years of CAP! When I stepped down as sdn. CC, I stayed, like many around here do, helping wheresoever I was needed, and held just about every position in the squadron (except Legal, Medical, Chaplain). "Up" was not an option for me; Wing HQ was 300 miles away and remote fulfillment was not very practical. "Elsewhere" meant traveling 30 miles each way to a Cadet Sqdn without pilots, not something that would have kept me in for very long.
When I was working, I ran manufacturing companies. I vigorously supported team concepts, and many times had leads, supervisors, managers, or department heads step back down into the rank and file, sometimes of my choosing, sometimes of theirs. I always had preliminary meetings with those individuals, explaining that the company needed their help both as team players, supporting the new leader, and as the experienced individuals they were. They understood that I expected them to work with the new leader, that efforts to the contrary would not be in their best interests. Once in a while it didn't work, and the individual had to leave. That became my problem to solve.
I see that same responsibility being held by the next echelon CC, ensuring that the new unit CC has support and that the previous CC knows that his/her conduct needs to be supportive of the new CC, or actions would be taken.
The problem is not just of the local unit, but of the Group and/or Wing as well.
The same solution will not, cannot, should not work for every squadron.
I am speaking from many years of CAP experience in a more densely populated area, Northeast Region.
The spirit behind my views is that a former CC needs to visibly back off and let the new CC have the reins.
How that will happen will vary based on local conditions....but it does need to happen.
Though not a Squadron Commander (current or former), I have been a Wing and Region Chaplain. My practice was to not attend the first couple of Wing Conferences or first Region Conference so that my successor would get to have the stage (so to speak) to themselves. I did not want to appear as a leader in the shadow. In both transitions, my successor had been one of my deputies or on staff -- so we had a healthy relationship. They knew that I supported them and would serve as a counselor/advisor -- should they seek out my counsel or opinion. I feel that I had my time to serve and put into effect what I could...it is now their time. They knew on the front end that I would not be making appearances so that it was nothing personal. It gives them time to build their own relationships and set the tone for their tenure (which according to regs can possibily be up to 6 years). I hadn't planned to attend this year's Chaplain Corps Region Staff College -- since it was my successor's first and want he and his staff to "own" the event. However, I did attend -- but it was because I was serving in a different capacity -- so I stayed in my own lane :) Never attended the CCRSC staff meetings or intruded in my successor's dealing with details of the college or interjected my observations. So it is possible for a former leader to stick around and enjoy the company of those whom he/she served without casting too big of a shadow over the one who is current holding the #1 position.