CAP Talk

Operations => Aviation & Flying Activities => Topic started by: bobcat746 on July 17, 2014, 10:07:27 PM

Title: Instrument Rating
Post by: bobcat746 on July 17, 2014, 10:07:27 PM
Is it acceptable for an individual to work on their instrument rating under an Air Force Mission number designated for mission pilot proficiency flying?
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: lordmonar on July 17, 2014, 10:57:05 PM
If you are a MP...you can work on your IFR rating.    Not sure what mission symbol to use.....that is a question best directed to your wing ops section.

Title: Instrument Rating
Post by: Storm Chaser on July 17, 2014, 11:21:26 PM
Quote from: CAPR 60-3
Other than on approved training missions, no additional flying maneuvers are to be conducted on Air Force assigned missions that are not required to accomplish the mission. Additional flying maneuvers include, but are not limited to, pilot training/instruction on missions with a primary purpose other than training, flying proficiency enhancement, currency accomplishment, "time building" or maneuvers that are not required to complete the mission but increase overall flight time.

If it's not part of the mission, it can't be done. Many proficiency sorties require you to fly a specific profile. It's best to check with your WG/DO.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: bobcat746 on July 17, 2014, 11:48:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Cliff_Chambliss on July 18, 2014, 12:28:54 AM
The symbol you want is C25 
Ref CAPR60-1.

Only took 3 minutes to look it up.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Storm Chaser on July 18, 2014, 04:58:31 AM

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on July 18, 2014, 12:28:54 AM
The symbol you want is C25 
Ref CAPR60-1.

Only took 3 minutes to look it up.

C25 missions are not AFAM, but CAP corporate missions. The OP asked about doing training towards an instrument rating on an AFAM.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Eclipse on July 18, 2014, 05:24:42 AM
^ Correct.

Profiles 7 & 9 can be used for IFR proficiency (9 specifically), but not for upgrade training.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Panzerbjorn on July 27, 2014, 06:37:30 PM
There's nothing saying you can't fly a transport/Mx flight with a CFII, filing IFR and logging it as training in your logbook.  You're allowed one landing and one instrument approach. Go and do multiple instrument approaches?  No, can't do THAT.  But there are ways to accomplish what you're trying to do while staying in the regs.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Flying Pig on July 28, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
Go missed  >:D
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2014, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on July 27, 2014, 06:37:30 PM
There's nothing saying you can't fly a transport/Mx flight with a CFII, filing IFR and logging it as training in your logbook.  You're allowed one landing and one instrument approach. Go and do multiple instrument approaches?  No, can't do THAT.  But there are ways to accomplish what you're trying to do while staying in the regs.

Actually, the Transport Profile (#4) states:
QuoteThis flight will consist of a cross-country flight with a minimum of three navigation legs that
culminate in landings at three airports. Total flight time should be approximately 1.5 hours.

So you can conduct at least 3 instrument approaches as part of a #4 A12
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Panzerbjorn on July 28, 2014, 07:29:42 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on July 28, 2014, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on July 27, 2014, 06:37:30 PM
There's nothing saying you can't fly a transport/Mx flight with a CFII, filing IFR and logging it as training in your logbook.  You're allowed one landing and one instrument approach. Go and do multiple instrument approaches?  No, can't do THAT.  But there are ways to accomplish what you're trying to do while staying in the regs.

Actually, the Transport Profile (#4) states:
QuoteThis flight will consist of a cross-country flight with a minimum of three navigation legs that
culminate in landings at three airports. Total flight time should be approximately 1.5 hours.

So you can conduct at least 3 instrument approaches as part of a #4 A12

Well, I'll be derped.  It CAN be funded under an A12 profile.  That's new to me.  Last I looked at those profiles, not too long ago, they said they're only funded under B12 missions.  Guess I had an old copy before Oct 2013. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Though reading it again, it appears to need Wing Commander approval for that profile to be funded.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on July 28, 2014, 07:29:42 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on July 28, 2014, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on July 27, 2014, 06:37:30 PM
There's nothing saying you can't fly a transport/Mx flight with a CFII, filing IFR and logging it as training in your logbook.  You're allowed one landing and one instrument approach. Go and do multiple instrument approaches?  No, can't do THAT.  But there are ways to accomplish what you're trying to do while staying in the regs.

Actually, the Transport Profile (#4) states:
QuoteThis flight will consist of a cross-country flight with a minimum of three navigation legs that
culminate in landings at three airports. Total flight time should be approximately 1.5 hours.

So you can conduct at least 3 instrument approaches as part of a #4 A12

Well, I'll be derped.  It CAN be funded under an A12 profile.  That's new to me.  Last I looked at those profiles, not too long ago, they said they're only funded under B12 missions.  Guess I had an old copy before Oct 2013. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Though reading it again, it appears to need Wing Commander approval for that profile to be funded.

Actually, if the Wing is OK with it, TMPs can actually fly an A12 on profile #4...I think it's the only one that you don't need to be a full-Mission Pilot for.  I did an A7 (old symbol) for that one myself.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: Panzerbjorn on July 28, 2014, 08:53:12 PM
The reality of it, though, is that I don't think most Wings will approve funding for TMP training when there's always a long line of MP training sorties to do.
Title: Re: Instrument Rating
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2014, 09:27:43 PM
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on July 28, 2014, 08:53:12 PM
The reality of it, though, is that I don't think most Wings will approve funding for TMP training when there's always a long line of MP training sorties to do.

Depends.  TMPs that are close to qualifying for MP, might get some A12s to get them over the hours hump.  One MP is worth a lot in the airplane allocation formula.