I was at a wing activity, and it was brought to my attention that with the new CAPM 39-1 we can now wear a CPR Patch on our BDU's. Could we wear any CPR Patch? Where would we get this Patch?
Closest yardsale? American Red Cross? American Heart Association? many are free and on line..
Any? No.
For example...
Constant Prepayment Rate
Controlled Products Regulations
Continuous Plankton Recorder
Computerized Patient Record
Coffee Provides Resuscitation. (It does, but no).
Cost Performance Report
Code of Professional Responsibility
Calibrated Peer Review
Clubs for Prevention and Recovery
Catch, Photograph, and Release
Condominium Property Regime
Computer Peripheral Repair
Crosby, Pevar, and Raymond
Comprehensive Program Review
Constructed Product Result
Creating Positive Relationships
Conserve, Protect, and Restore
Cultural Participation and Research
Close Proximity Recovery
...would all be "no".
However, if you have successfully completed Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation training, and are current in the qualification (i.e. card not expired),
then you could wear a patch from the provider of the training.
I have to know.... did you type each on individually or cut and paste?
This is from the appropriate area of CAPM 39-1.
Quote
10.7.23. Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) Patch. May be worn by individuals who have
satisfactorily completed CPR training, as awarded by a CPR-training agency whose training standards meet the US Department of Transportation "National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings".
Patches will only be worn while the member is current. Patch will be appropriate in size and appearance for the uniform being worn and that authorized by the agency that
completed the training
The American Heart Association does not have any cloth patch, only a metal pin. Believe me, I am an AHA instructor and I looked carefully for one.
The American Red Cross does not [edited to add] have any either. Ten years ago I was told by an ARC saleswoman that "these cloth patches do not sell so they are difficult to get." At the time the only ones sold by the Red Cross were instructor patches, so you could not wear one if you were not a CPR instructor... If you can find one you will have to be certified by the ARC...
That would have left any third-party made CPR patch but it would have been in violation of the manual indication as these "
are not issued by a known organization."
I suggest go to eBay... Still, this one is not acceptable as it is not made by any organization: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPR-PATCH-LOOK-AND-BID-NOW-/110856495066 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPR-PATCH-LOOK-AND-BID-NOW-/110856495066)
One like this is acceptable if and only if your class was from the American Heart Association... http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Heart-Association-CPR-Patch/301119724999?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23928%26meid%3D8339124181201512028%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10200%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151324126849 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Heart-Association-CPR-Patch/301119724999?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23928%26meid%3D8339124181201512028%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10200%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151324126849)
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 15, 2014, 08:08:23 PM
This is from the appropriate area of CAPM 39-1.
Quote
10.7.23. Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) Patch. May be worn by individuals who have
satisfactorily completed CPR training, as awarded by a CPR-training agency whose training standards meet the US Department of Transportation "National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings".
Patches will only be worn while the member is current. Patch will be appropriate in size and appearance for the uniform being worn and that authorized by the agency that
completed the training
The American Heart Association does not have any cloth patch, only a metal pin. Believe me, I am an AHA instructor and I looked carefully for one.
The American Red Cross does have any either. Ten years ago I was told by an ARC saleswoman that "these cloth patches do not sell so they are difficult to get." At the time the only ones sold by the Red Cross were instructor patches, so you could not wear one if you were not a CPR instructor... If you can find one you will have to be certified by the ARC...
That would have left any third-party made CPR patch but it would have been in violation of the manual indication as these "are not issued by a known organization."
I suggest go to eBay...
Or just don't wear the patch.....
That posted by Hall, too...
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 15, 2014, 08:06:58 PM
I have to know.... did you type each on individually or cut and paste?
Heh - looked up "CPR" and copied the defs.
Ive always been one for moderation. The CPR patch, ES patch, Comm Patch all just looked a little to boy-scoutish for my taste. Perhaps it was my Marine upbringing where you could stand a records clerk next to a scout sniper and not be able to tell them apart by their uniforms.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301119724999?lpid=82 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301119724999?lpid=82)
:)
Quote from: lordmonar on July 15, 2014, 11:41:30 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301119724999?lpid=82 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301119724999?lpid=82)
:)
Just... No.
Back In The Day, after I got certified as an Instructor, they gave me a patch that looked just like this one:
(http://facultyfiles.deanza.edu/images/donahuemary/AmericanRedCrossCPRinstruct.jpg)
My Sergeant told me that I was supposed to get it sewn onto my uniform. I never did. I think it's probably floating around in a drawer or closet somewhere in my house.
In the old days, while at Ft. Sam in medic training, some of us got our Life Saving certification and were told we could sew the patches on our bathing suits..
I've looked for these patches when asked by cadets; they're really hard to find and I'm surprised they were included in the new CAPM 39-1. Even if you can find one somewhere, I don't see the need or purpose of this patch. My recommendation would be against it, although if someone wants to wear it, it's an approved patch and they certainly can.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 16, 2014, 12:54:53 PM
they're really hard to find and I'm surprised they were included in the new CAPM 39-1
The availability of the patch has probably never been really addressed at NHQ. Thus, it entirely probable that the NUC or the paid staff are unaware of the issue.
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 15, 2014, 08:42:02 PM
Ive always been one for moderation. The CPR patch, ES patch, Comm Patch all just looked a little to boy-scoutish for my taste. Perhaps it was my Marine upbringing where you could stand a records clerk next to a scout sniper and not be able to tell them apart by their uniforms.
:clap: :clap:
My personal preference also. One day, I'll find time to tell the (sad, sad) story of what happened when RAF pilots were allowed to have their wings sewn on their uniform sweaters......not my service's finest hour by any means! >:D
Which brings me to my next point..... Uniform sweaters are of the devil. Send them all back to hell and burn them.
http://www.ecsi-merchandise.com/ecsi/default.aspx?page=products&cat=560 (http://www.ecsi-merchandise.com/ecsi/default.aspx?page=products&cat=560)
This is who we use, the program is thorough and they have patches in stock whenever you "need" one. It is nice to be able to present a cadet a patch after their course completion.
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 16, 2014, 02:37:25 PM
Which brings me to my next point..... Uniform sweaters are of the devil. Send them all back to hell and burn them.
No...I liked mine! Then again, you should have seen what they replaced! Mercifully I can't find any pictures!
:)
Quote from: GroundHawg on July 16, 2014, 06:33:32 PM
http://www.ecsi-merchandise.com/ecsi/default.aspx?page=products&cat=560 (http://www.ecsi-merchandise.com/ecsi/default.aspx?page=products&cat=560)
I'm not sure I would be comfortable affixing a patch to my BBDUs telling the reader to "Experience the difference". :P
Not sure if these are any better but:
http://www.medpins.com/store/p/759-First-Aid-CPR-AED-Trained-Emblem-Pin.aspx (http://www.medpins.com/store/p/759-First-Aid-CPR-AED-Trained-Emblem-Pin.aspx)
Quote from: shuman14 on July 17, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
Not sure if these are any better but:
http://www.medpins.com/store/p/759-First-Aid-CPR-AED-Trained-Emblem-Pin.aspx (http://www.medpins.com/store/p/759-First-Aid-CPR-AED-Trained-Emblem-Pin.aspx)
Those are not allowed. CAPM 39-1 clearly states that the patch must be awarded/authorized by the organization conducting the training (i.e. ARC, AHA, ASHI, etc.).
Shuman-
Also not allowed as they are pins, not cloth patches.
CAPM 39-1 allows patches on BDUs but does not authorize metal pins on the Blues. Go figure...
I just Google searched and that's what came up. :-\
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 17, 2014, 08:56:43 PM
Shuman-
Also not allowed as they are pins, not cloth patches.
CAPM 39-1 allows patches on BDUs but does not authorize metal pins on the Blues. Go figure...
Time to get your peepers checked. Scroll down....
I have to ask: Why do you need a patch for CPR training? Isn't it enough to have the myriad others that either require the training or imply it?
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on July 18, 2014, 12:00:20 AM
I have to ask: Why do you need a patch for CPR training? Isn't it enough to have the myriad others that either require the training or imply it?
Well....first....other the EMT badge....I can't think of any other badge that actually requires CPR training.
Second....I think this is a hold over from long ago when CPR was "new" and the ARC and AHA were trying to get as many people as possible qualified. So CAP joined in by offering the wear of the patch...which is above and beyond any other ES requirements.
Having said that.....I too think it is something that CAP should drop. We need to add the CPR requirement to our GT and UDF ratings....but I don't see a need for a patch. But don't care one way or the other if someone chooses to wear it.
CPR used to be required for GTM3, back when the split to GTM3, GTM2, and GTM1. That's why my qual expired back then, because I couldn't manage to find a convenient class.
Actually, there was never a requirement for ground team leaders, members or anyone else to have CPR. I've gone through all the ES regs back to 1983 and none mention CPR or any other resuscitation training (like mouth-to-mouth, arm-lift-chest pressure, etc.) being required or even recommended. I think that for a time, first aid courses just automatically included CPR training since it was new and potentially lifesaving. Once someone figured out that more money could be made by teaching CPR separately, it was. Wings may have made CPR an add-on requirement.
I think the other item that led to the belief that CPR was required was the format of the application for a 101 card (form 100). It had a space for the applicant to check off their level of first aid/medical training and expiration date, and a block for CPR with expiration date. The form only stated to attach a copy of the first aid certificate.
In 2004, the year that GTM was split into three, we also switched to SQTRs, so the form 100 was no longer required. That was also the year that advanced first aid was dropped from the GTL SQTR. GTLs weren't always required to have advanced first aid or equivalent.
Beginning in 1996 there was a requirement that all ground teams have two members trained in bloodborne pathogen protection. This became a task for GTLs to demonstrate the use of a protective suit. Now it's a GTM3 task to exercise universal precautions.
Mike
QuoteBy Thrawn...
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 17, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
Shuman-
Also not allowed as they are pins, not cloth patches.
CAPM 39-1 allows patches on BDUs but does not authorize metal pins on the Blues. Go figure...
Time to get your peepers checked. Scroll down....
I re-read and scrolled down.
I think you read too fast and missed the connection. I was responding to a message about the CPR patch. Therefore my response was referring to wear of the CPR patch and CPR pin
only. If I respond to a message about a CPR patch, I do not need to state the word "CPR." But apparently you need to see it...
So, CAPM 39-1 allows CPR patches on BDUs but does not authorize CPR metal pins on the Blues. Go figure...Or copy
where does CAPM 39-1 states that CPR pins can be worn on the Blues...And also I stated that the American Heart association sold CPR pins but not CPR patches anymore...
As a nonpracticing Paramedic, I am quite honestly not sure why someone would want to wear a CPR patch or pin. Just about every GT member has CPR to go with the First Aid so it is nothing special. Every nurse, doctor, EMT, Paramedic, etc wearing their insignia have it. If you wear a GT patch and are current, it is fairly obvious that you have probably taken first aid and CPR. For those who wear it, it can make them liable for not acting if something goes wrong or they take no action. Additionally, this is not the boy scouts where we wear a patch for every single thing.
Not really.
I am an American Heart Association instructor.
The American Heart Association has the following classes:
BLS for the Healthcare Professional (no First Aid class, just CPR and AED for nurses and the like).
CPR/AED and First Aid (CPR, AED, and First Aid some places require all, others only CPR).
CPR/AED (no First Aid class, some places require only CPR such as child care, mall security workers).
For every five CPR AED classes the company I work people require only one CPR First Aid class.
The same format is taught by the National Safety Council. That is, their instructors can teach CPR/AED only, First Aid only (no CPR), and CPR/AED/First Aid. I am not aware of the ratio as I am not an NSC instructor.
I am not aware how the Red Cross conduct their First Aid and CPR classes at the time. However I was an ARC instructor ten years ago teaching for only four or five years. I could teach First Aid alone, CPR alone, or both together.
I am not sure if your reply post is to me or not but I work for the Red Cross in humanitarian- disaster services so I do not teach classes anymore; however, I taught for a few years in CPR and First Aid, CPR Pro, EMR, and Wilderness First Aid. We have a variety of CPR courses for lay rescuers and then CPR for Professional Rescuer. We also have emergency medical responder which is an OSHA version of the DOT first responder curriculum. I taught for the AHA for nearly 12 years. I taught BLS, HeartFacts, and some other courses. Every state requires nurses, EMTs, EMT-Is, Paramedics, and most physicians to recertify. As part of the re-certification, CPR is required. To be honest even though ARC offers CPR for Professional Rescuers, nearly every medical provider recertifies through the BLS for HCP for AHA.
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 20, 2014, 08:37:12 PM
Not really.
I am an American Heart Association instructor.
The American Heart Association has the following classes:
BLS for the Healthcare Professional (no First Aid class, just CPR and AED for nurses and the like).
CPR/AED and First Aid (CPR, AED, and First Aid some places require all, others only CPR).
CPR/AED (no First Aid class, some places require only CPR such as child care, mall security workers).
For every five CPR AED classes the company I work people require only one CPR First Aid class.
The same format is taught by the National Safety Council. That is, their instructors can teach CPR/AED only, First Aid only (no CPR), and CPR/AED/First Aid. I am not aware of the ratio as I am not an NSC instructor.
I am not aware how the Red Cross conduct their First Aid and CPR classes at the time. However I was an ARC instructor ten years ago teaching for only four or five years. I could teach First Aid alone, CPR alone, or both together.
Quote from: Jaison009 on July 20, 2014, 08:15:20 PMFor those who wear it, it can make them liable for not acting if something goes wrong or they take no action.
A patch doesn't make you liable for anything, one way or another.
Quote from: Jaison009 on July 20, 2014, 08:15:20 PM
Additionally, this is not the boy scouts where we wear a patch for every single thing.
Cite pl.....((*snicker*))...plea...((*snort*))...((*sigh*))...
I can't even get it out...
Yes, the response was for you Jaison.
So the Red Cross is still as I was before. And like the AHA and NSC. Every state does require BLS for the Healthcare Provider (AHA) or a corresponding class CPR for Professional Rescuer (Red Cross).
The point is that CAP would be seen at most as a lay rescuer, when NHQ states that CAP is not a First Aid responder.
(I know I know I am not using the exact words, here is where DRUMROLL! twenty other readers will jump to correct me!)
Since NHQ does not mandate nor expect us to be a professional rescuer nor list us in the regulations as a First Aid provider, it does make those of us certified as Ground Team with CPR as something special by itself. More so when the only thing mandated by NHQ from ES personnel is First Aid and not CPR. It is this mandate that will make the majority of us take First Aid and not First Aid / CPR. The difference is about $35 for AHA classes: CPR / AED with First Aid = $80; CPR / AED alone or First Aid alone = $65.
Unless the unit can find a good deal...
Eclipse-
He is probably referring to public expectations but left some (most) out...
The reason why, when I worked at a volunteer ambulance service we were told not to wear our uniforms to / from our station, people see us with our EMT uniform, they have an emergency and would expect us to help without stopping to think 1) we were alone; 2) did not have equipment thus not able to treat much; 3) not on an ambulance so cannot transport injured / ill safely...
And the reason why I see School Safety Agents who in New York City are part of the New York City Police Department (although unarmed) when they go home they take off their uniforms. And probably why many, many policemen / policewomen take off their uniforms when going home: 1) they are alone; 2) did not have equipment thus not able to call or might have to arrest / fire / without backup; 3) not on a police car so cannot transport safely...
Thus the public see us with the CPR patch they expect us to act...
I think that is the leap or connection that Jaison is trying to make... or break... or not be made...
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 20, 2014, 10:08:47 PM
Thus the public see us with the CPR patch they expect us to act...
I'm not aware of any regulation that prevents a properly trained and certified CAP member from administering CPR to a member of the public in an emergency situation. Granted it is still up to the CAP member to decide if they are willing to use this skill or not in any particular instance, but I suspect anyone proud enough of this skill to wear the patch would give it a try.
The EMT patch is a little more problematical since from what I understand there are quite a number of EMT-level skills that the EMT probably isn't going to want to try to use outside the scope of the agency for which he is an EMT.
River:
The sequence of events was like this:
Jaison posted a message re the CPR patch.
I answered.
Eclipse said something where he doubted the CPR patch making any expectations to perform.
I made the connection between Jaison and Eclipse's posting.
Now your response is as if I stated the liability.
You are right on your message about a properly trained and certified member but that training expires every two years, and if you are going to wear that patch you have to remove it when your training expires. You will find a large number of members will not remove it. So your point becomes moot. When their CPR expires they will not be properly trained or certified.
Many CPR cards say "recommended renewal date".... so in the spirit of may, will or shall that means that you may renew , but you may also perform CPR even if that date is in the past. So "technically" speaking it doesnt expire. This is theory most applies to "lay person" level cards.
Not that I agree mind you, personally I think every operations level person should be current certified in at least adult CPR/AED.
MK
Are you a CPR instructor? Do you teach CPR classes, either BLS (Healthcare) or CPR (lay)?
I am.
The people I talk to when I start my classes I always ask them "why are you taking this class?"
Those that are renewing always say "my company said my card expired..."
And if you read New York State law it states and I paraphrase, that the card expires after 1 year in the case of working at a summer camp, but a different NY law states that healthcare has to renew it after two years. Not "recommended" as the card states but "required." I bet it is the same in other states.
Maybe you will feel comfortable that CAP personnel go with "recommended," ut I feel more comfortable with what the law says...
Are you guys for real?? Being a medical professional and staying up-to-date on all of my requirements, let me say, while renewal of CPR is a good idea, I do not feel it is mandatory. It is a skill that once learned sticks with you and does not need a 4 hour class every year or two to refresh. 10-15 minutes would do. The think I always enjoy is that they modify the training each time by the width of the hair on a gnats you know what. This year we will not elevate the chin. This year we will not lift the back of the head. This year we will do 20 breaths and not 15. This year we will not worry about chest compressions. This year we will no longer safety pin the tongue to the shirt collar. So many people trying to substantiate their paychecks over nothing. CPR hardly ever works. What a waste of valuable training time, kind of like our monthly, daily, hourly safety briefings. Check the box, move on. Everything has gotten so CS that it isn't fun anymore. I think the only time I heard CPR being used successfully in CAP was when HWSNBN saved 15 people on a grayhound bus that he ran off the road or something like that.. But I digress.
So if it riles you up so much, why the long dissertation on it? :angel:
Quote from: AirAux on July 22, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Are you guys for real?? Being a medical professional and staying up-to-date on all of my requirements, let me say, while renewal of CPR is a good idea, I do not feel it is mandatory. It is a skill that once learned sticks with you and does not need a 4 hour class every year or two to refresh. 10-15 minutes would do. The think I always enjoy is that they modify the training each time by the width of the hair on a gnats you know what. This year we will not elevate the chin. This year we will not lift the back of the head. This year we will do 20 breaths and not 15. This year we will not worry about chest compressions. This year we will no longer safety pin the tongue to the shirt collar. So many people trying to substantiate their paychecks over nothing. CPR hardly ever works. What a waste of valuable training time, kind of like our monthly, daily, hourly safety briefings. Check the box, move on. Everything has gotten so CS that it isn't fun anymore. I think the only time I heard CPR being used successfully in CAP was when HWSNBN saved 15 people on a grayhound bus that he ran off the road or something like that.. But I digress.
Great Caesar's ghost...you're right. It seldom works...aside from the two times in my life that I have seen it used effectively, once by me. As a "medical professional" you should know that there are perishable skills. That's why you have to keep up with and recertify for specifics skills. By your logic, once someone does a form 5, or shoots a gun, or drives a car, they should never have to demonstrate that skill again. Medical science changes, and with it, so do procedures. Keeping up with those procedures is part of the responsibility that you take on when you agree to take the training.
All this over a $1.95 patch....priorities are in the right place, at least.