A few years ago, I was put in for a CAP Life Saving Medal by the Sq Comm (or at least I saw the form) for an action where I also received the Certificate of Valor and Life Saving Medal from my police department. I was an active CAP member at the time. He asked me for the Police Citations and obtained a statement from my Department regarding the incident. How would I find out what happened?
A) Contact that squadron commander or the current personnel officer at the squadron to inquire the status, if known.
B) Contact National Headquarters (not sure exactly who) and have them check to see if any Life Saving Awards were issued during that timeframe that have your name on it.
To my knowledge, there is no list of recipients made public that you can reference.
Have the administrative officer initiate a tracer request.
Quote from: Stonewall on April 08, 2007, 04:43:16 AM
A) Contact that squadron commander or the current personnel officer at the squadron to inquire the status, if known.
B) Contact National Headquarters (not sure exactly who) and have them check to see if any Life Saving Awards were issued during that timeframe that have your name on it.
Or that.
You can do it the right way & trace the request, which works fine if it's within the last year or so. Or you can do it fast & call HQ to see if they ever got or issued the request. Susie Parker is who you want to talk to there. She's pretty much knows everything you'll ever need from them & is in charge of half of it (the half that matters).
IF it didn't process, then resubmit. It's not that hard to get approved assuming you actually did the deed, and doesn't sound like there's any doubting that.
This occurred in 2001. I just never thought much about it. I actually dont even know what he put me in for. It may have never even left his desk. I dont even remember the Sq. Cmdrs name.
Whatever, call & check. If it isn't there then resubmit. If he put you in for a bronze/siver medal then that might have gotten stuck in the chain, but lifesaving is almost automatic if you save a life (I said that already right, sorry).
IAW CAPR 39-3, para 5.:
All award recommendations must be submitted within 2 years of the termination date of the act, achievement, or service performed.
Emphasis mine. This included resubmissions to overcome black holes, etc.
Wing is the best bet, probably. Wing issues Lifesaving certificates. It only took 4 years to have mine in hand, but there's a number of reasons for that. As if I care anyway...I wore my ribbons at the last wing conference, and before that, the previous wing conference. Somehow I always get asked about it because it looks kinda like the Spaatz:
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/lifesaving.gif)
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/spaatz.gif)
My son was submitted for a lifesaving medal ( A Spaatz Cadet, now active duty AF) after running out in the street and saving a high school student from being hit by a car. He was struck by the car in the process and sustained minor injuries. The facts were fairly well documented in the police report, but the award never made it through, and was not even downgraded. The filing just went into the paper work blackhole. I wish you luck in finding yours.
Capt. Lord
Quote from: CaptLord on April 08, 2007, 03:59:29 PM
My son was submitted for a lifesaving medal ( A Spaatz Cadet, now active duty AF) after running out in the street and saving a high school student from being hit by a car. He was struck by the car in the process and sustained minor injuries. The facts were fairly well documented in the police report, but the award never made it through, and was not even downgraded. The filing just went into the paper work blackhole. I wish you luck in finding yours.
Capt. Lord
Yet another victory for CAP in recognizing its volunteers ::) :P :-\
The only life saving medals I know about ( there were probably lots more) were awarded to Wing Staff for saving the life of... Wing staff....
Capt. Lord
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2007, 04:33:54 AM
A few years ago, I was put in for a CAP Life Saving Medal by the Sq Comm (or at least I saw the form) for an action where I also received the Certificate of Valor and Life Saving Medal from my police department. I was an active CAP member at the time. He asked me for the Police Citations and obtained a statement from my Department regarding the incident. How would I find out what happened?
If this was done while performing a duty as a paid professional, i.e. EMT, Sheriff, Police, etc. Then CAP should not issue a Lifesaving Award. Otherwise, every EMT would have a chest full of awards. If you saved a life while not on duty, then the award should be approved.
Wing is the approving authority on Lifesaving Awards. Contacting NHQ would be a waste of time. As someone who has worked on the wing awards committee, the recipient or originator needs to follow-up, follow-up, follow-up. I know some wing personnel officers make decisions "on their own" and the paperwork dies with them and never makes it to the committee. If an award if not approved then an explanation needs to be given by the disapproving authority.
If this happened 6 years ago and you now want to get it, then the 24 month time frame comes into play, i.e no award. A copy of the application and approved/disapproved CAPF 120 should have been put in your personnel file. If wing keeps copies, they may have it also. If not, you may be out of luck on this one.
As someone who is waiting on a Silver Medal of Valor, I know how frustrating it can be. I have seen the Silver Medal of Valor awarded to people directing traffic or holding a fire extinguisher on a smoking tire, but in my case, I ran into a burning restaurant kitchen and lead 8 people out the back door. I was even in uniform. Now, a year and a half later, it is still tied up in politics at region and NHQ. So much for taking care of your people. :(
Quote from: JC004 on April 08, 2007, 03:14:11 PM
Wing is the best bet, probably. Wing issues Lifesaving certificates. It only took 4 years to have mine in hand, but there's a number of reasons for that. As if I care anyway...I wore my ribbons at the last wing conference, and before that, the previous wing conference. Somehow I always get asked about it because it looks kinda like the Spaatz:
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/lifesaving.gif)
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/spaatz.gif)
Colgan....what were you chocking on at the time you saved your life? BS perhaps! Seriously 4 years wait......thats like "remember 4 years ago when you saved all those cats from that burning house, well heres another ribbon for you"
I've never really argued this, but I agree with mashcraft.
Not bragging here, just saying I was doing my job, but even as an 18 year old cadet I was a Volunteer Firefighter as well. Inside of one year, I played a role in the saving of numerous lives as part of my duties. I personally went into 3 separate burning structures, initially the were to search for people, then to put the fire out. Not to mention the countless times I've done CPR to include bringing back 2 people, only for them to die later.
Since then, I've always maintained my EMT certification, yet never belonged to a VFD; just CAP. In the past 16 years, I've stopped at numerous car accidents or medical emergencies.
In fact, 2 days ago one the way back from the doctor who diagnosed me with friggin pneumonia, I witnessed a car try to avoid a semi truck only to end up ON the guardrail/barrier that prevents cars from going into the marsh. Her car was litterally teetering. I removed the one year old baby and talked the mom into coming out through the passenger side. I'm a police officer and EMT, it didn't cross my mind that I may or may not have been elligible for the Life Saving Award.
Does anyone have a write up for a life saving award I could read? Would like to see how they're written up.
Quote from: mikeylikey on April 08, 2007, 05:37:30 PM
Quote from: JC004 on April 08, 2007, 03:14:11 PM
Wing is the best bet, probably. Wing issues Lifesaving certificates. It only took 4 years to have mine in hand, but there's a number of reasons for that. As if I care anyway...I wore my ribbons at the last wing conference, and before that, the previous wing conference. Somehow I always get asked about it because it looks kinda like the Spaatz:
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/lifesaving.gif)
(http://www.mer.cap.gov/ribbons/spaatz.gif)
Colgan....what were you chocking on at the time you saved your life? BS perhaps! Seriously 4 years wait......thats like "remember 4 years ago when you saved all those cats from that burning house, well heres another ribbon for you"
Lies. I was not choking someone. I was drowning them. Get it straight. You know these things. It was a lot of work to make it look like I wasn't just trying to get a ribbon. Sheesh.
It wasn't that the certificate was done 4 years later...it was done twice because it was lost by our highly-organized folks. The second one was approved in 2001 (which is the 120 that I have in my file). I got the certificate in 2003. It was actually 3-point-something years, I believe - close to 4.
I got a giant envelope with a half dozen blank lifesaving certs in it at Sq, I got no idea why, but they're just sitting there. I guess so you can just skip that tedious approval process & print your own.
Its not a big deal, as you can see its 6 years later. Just curious. I had about a 3 years absence from CAP and was wondering if it was sitting on a shelf somewhere.
However, I dont think I necessarily agree with being a paid employee exempts you, otherwise Police and Fire wouldn't have medals, it would just be part of your job. Now, for every time you do CPR? No. But if your agency takes the first step, then I dont see why CAP couldnt consider it.
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 08, 2007, 08:51:29 PM
However, I dont think I necessarily agree with being a paid employee exempts you, otherwise Police and Fire wouldn't have medals, it would just be part of your job. Now, for every time you do CPR? No. But if your agency takes the first step, then I dont see why CAP couldnt consider it.
I would agree with that. I think the bar goes up a bit when it's your job, but saving a life is saving a life & the reg makes no distinction, despite there being fire/police/ems in the org when the award was created & ever since then. If someone ends up with a lifesaving medal stacked in clasps, then good for them.
As for the break, that may explain it. Try contacting your wing administrator or personnel officer to see if they can track it down. I assume it's not on your record in eServices. You can email susie parker like I said & ask her what you need to do to get it sorted out. She's been very helpful with me on my break in service issues & getting personnel records sorted out.
Quote from: CaptLord on April 08, 2007, 04:43:33 PM
The only life saving medals I know about ( there were probably lots more) were awarded to Wing Staff for saving the life of... Wing staff....
Capt. Lord
We had a cadet get one about 3 years ago after he pulled a woman and 3 kids out of a house on fire while he waited on the morning school bus. IMHO he should've been put in for a Silver Medal of Valor but all he got was the LSR.
Johnny Y.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on April 09, 2007, 12:48:18 AM
Quote from: CaptLord on April 08, 2007, 04:43:33 PM
The only life saving medals I know about ( there were probably lots more) were awarded to Wing Staff for saving the life of... Wing staff....
Capt. Lord
We had a cadet get one about 3 years ago after he pulled a woman and 3 kids out of a house on fire while he waited on the morning school bus. IMHO he should've been put in for a Silver Medal of Valor but all he got was the LSR.
Johnny Y.
Yeah, I agree with you on that one. Just based on "cadet rescues 3 kids and a woman from house fire" warrants a bit more than a lifesaving medal.
Quote from: Stonewall on April 09, 2007, 12:54:07 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on April 09, 2007, 12:48:18 AM
Quote from: CaptLord on April 08, 2007, 04:43:33 PM
The only life saving medals I know about ( there were probably lots more) were awarded to Wing Staff for saving the life of... Wing staff....
Capt. Lord
We had a cadet get one about 3 years ago after he pulled a woman and 3 kids out of a house on fire while he waited on the morning school bus. IMHO he should've been put in for a Silver Medal of Valor but all he got was the LSR.
Johnny Y.
Yeah, I agree with you on that one. Just based on "cadet rescues 3 kids and a woman from house fire" warrants a bit more than a lifesaving medal.
Absolutely agree.
FYI - you can't get stacked clasps and multiple awards of the Lifesaving Ribbon for savings multiple lives. You can only earn it once. If it wasn't for organ transplant, you get the star device. No other devices, no multiple awards, nada.
Given this provision in the regs, I'm betting CAP had already taken into account the 'professional life saver' when they developed the award. So, if you performed the action in any capacity, professional or by-stander, somebody should put you in for it. Were you thinking of the decoration while doing the act? No, but people rarely are when they are committing acts of valor/heroism or general good deeds. They still deserve the award.
That's too bad about the clasps. It causes people not to be put in for subsequent acts that the org would like to know and make a big deal about.
Quote from: DNall on April 09, 2007, 02:35:43 AM
That's too bad about the clasps. It causes people not to be put in for subsequent acts that the org would like to know and make a big deal about.
If a person commits a livesaving act, always put them in the for the highest award you can. Shoot for the Silver or Bronze Medal of Valor. If they have a previous award of the Lifesaving ribbon, you can still put them in for higher and other awards for their actions (heck, it might even dissuade approval authority from downgrading the award, since they can't downgrade it to a lifesaving if they've got a previous award of it). :)
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 02:40:14 AM
Quote from: DNall on April 09, 2007, 02:35:43 AM
That's too bad about the clasps. It causes people not to be put in for subsequent acts that the org would like to know and make a big deal about.
If a person commits a livesaving act, always put them in the for the highest award you can. Shoot for the Silver or Bronze Medal of Valor. If they have a previous award of the Lifesaving ribbon, you can still put them in for higher and other awards for their actions (heck, it might even dissuade approval authority from downgrading the award, since they can't downgrade it to a lifesaving if they've got a previous award of it). :)
I always tell people I don't do the same first aid procedure twice. It's just redundant and boring. If you're gonna be dieing, you have to pick something I haven't already done. ;D
Personally, I don't think CAP should give awards for actions taken outside of a CAP activity.
Just the other day, I think Friday, my buddy who was a cadet with me back in 80s remembered that I was still in CAP. I am just now getting active again since moving to Florida and having a baby in August. He brought up an event that happened over last summer and said he should put me in for the life saving medal. I sort of laughed but then gave it some thought and said go for it. I still don't feel right about it, but after reading through these posts and talking to a few people, I've decided to let him send the letter to my commander. Below is what he wrote (I edited it for grammar). He's a cop, you'd think he could write better... Let me know if you think this warrants the award...
-----
To whom it may concern:
I would like to recommend that Lt Col Peter K. (Kirt) Bowden be put in for Civil Air Patrol's Life Saving Medal.
On August 26, 2006, while surfing at Mayport Beach with Kirt and coming to shore after seeing a shark on three separate occasions, we noticed a father yelling for his young son who was caught in a current on a boogie board. We noticed a young lifeguard struggling to get through the waves so we took action ourselves. Both Kirt and I made it through the waves to the young child where he was already past the breakers and in very deep water; neither of us could touch the ocean floor. Shortly thereafter, the lifeguard and father arrived and both were overwhelmed with exhaustion. The young boy was placed on top of one surfboard while the two adults grabbed on to the other. Slowly working our way back to shore we were toppled by a large wave and had to reorganize everyone into position. It wasn't until we got to knee deep water that additional lifeguards arrived.
It is without a doubt that Kirt played a major role in the saving of the child's life in addition to assisting both the father and young lifeguard after their exhaustive swim. As a former member of the Jacksonville Composite Squadron in the 1980s, I didn't think to recommend Kirt for this award until now. I myself am a former life guard captain and know the dangers of ocean rescue. Although Kirt is an avid swimmer and no stranger to the ocean, it took great heroism on his part to help the lives of others in such conditions. He did so without hesitation and regard to his own safety.
If you have any questions regarding my recommendation please feel free to contact me at 904-728-xxxx or jody.fiala@xxxx.com. Although I do not have the names of the others involved, my wife was also a witness to the act. Additionally, I would hope there is a record of this rescue with the Mayport Life Guards.
Sincerely,
Jody V. Fiala
Quote from: Stonewall on April 09, 2007, 03:12:31 AM
Let me know if you think this warrants the award...
I say submit it! It's the job of the approving authority to determine if it warrants the award. ;)
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 03:18:56 AM
I say submit it! It's the job of the approving authority to determine if it warrants the award. ;)
Sure. My dad got one for actions as an airline employee, aiding a girl having a siezure, in front of the date. Company gave him a little paper certificate w/o frame & a talking to about liability & call for the EMTs. He joked about the certificate at a meeting & bang, congrats here's your award, ended up in the paper too.
A friend and fellow CAP officer, several years ago, ran into his neighbor's home during a fire and rescued a sleeping individual from a smoke-filled house.
He was, at the time, a squadron commander....the Group CC put him in for a Bronze Medal of Valor, approved by wing.
Region downgraded it to Lifesaving "because the building was not engulfed in flames".
yet another poor soul who does not understand the risks of smoke inhalation!
It may be a rare occasion but you can actually have a Lifesave upgraded to a Medal of Valor. It has happened in the past. A Florida Wing member (not staff or region or wing) earned (not given) a lifesaving medal about 15 years ago was upgraded to a Silver Medal of Valor after someone in the squadron found some articles about the incident. They resubmitted it and it was approved. It can happen.
I feel that they should make the Awards System easier to do like the promotions on eservices. This would greatly increase the number of submissions in my opinion.
I was nominated for the SMV in July of 2006 and was recently told that it takes atleast a year most of the time for them to make it to the National Board. The only time they are voted on is the Summer Board I believe. I found out about it during the Winter National Board in Washington this past February.
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 01:25:24 AM
FYI - you can't get stacked clasps and multiple awards of the Lifesaving Ribbon for savings multiple lives. You can only earn it once. If it wasn't for organ transplant, you get the star device. No other devices, no multiple awards, nada.
I don't think this was always the case. If I remember correctly, we used to wear the prop device for awards received while doing aircrew things. My lifesaving awards are all aircrew saves during my time in AKWG and I have photos of me in uniform with the prop and a couple of bronze triangles on them at the Encampment Dinner standing with the Wing CC and his lifesaving ribbon has multiple awards also.
We might have been wrong, but I had really sharp cadet officers who would have called us on it. I think that there was a reg change in the middle 90's.
Quote from: DNall on April 09, 2007, 03:56:05 AM
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 03:18:56 AM
I say submit it! It's the job of the approving authority to determine if it warrants the award. ;)
Sure. My dad got one for actions as an airline employee, aiding a girl having a siezure, in front of the date. Company gave him a little paper certificate w/o frame & a talking to about liability & call for the EMTs. He joked about the certificate at a meeting & bang, congrats here's your award, ended up in the paper too.
I know of 2 situations (none of them in CAP) where awards were given for valor by their employer as well as terminations for violating company/department policy. One was a cop for using non-approved department ammo in a shooting of a cop killer, the other was for giving CPR to a coworker.
The cop was reinstated after a nasty, nasty media campaign against the City who employed him. The other case the company folded after the nasty media campaign as well as the lawsuits.
crazy world we live in, crazy litigious world.
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 01:25:24 AM
FYI - you can't get stacked clasps and multiple awards of the Lifesaving Ribbon for savings multiple lives. You can only earn it once. If it wasn't for organ transplant, you get the star device. No other devices, no multiple awards, nada.
Where does it say you can't earn more than one...
Last I checked you just can't affix another device to THAT ribbon. If you earn 2 Silver Medals of Valor, you put another ribbon on. 39-1 says that if you can't fit the devices for another award on the ribbon to wear another ribbon. i.e. encampment... you've been 25 times...you can't put 4 silver clasps and 4 bronze clasps on one ribbon...the fix, put the remaining devices on another encampment ribbon. Same thing applies to the other ribbons. Since you can't put another star on, you denote subsequent awards with another ribbon.
On another note, professional life savers shouldn't be eligible for lifesaving awards in performance of their paid duties. Otherwise, you would have surgeons, emts, police, fire, coast guard, and all others who get PAID to save lives earning the award. The award is supposed to recognize those who save a life as an extra.
If you are a fire fighter and earn an award for bravery in performance of your job duties, great, you get a paycheck.
I think this should also apply for the Paid employees of CAP earning MSMs, ESM and DSMs...if you work at national as a cirriculum developer, I'd hope that what you do affects the organization on a national level. It's what we are paying you to do.
*rant rant*
Would it be possible to have the regs rewritten so clasps could be awarded? If so, who could suggest the change?
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 11, 2007, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: Pylon on April 09, 2007, 01:25:24 AM
FYI - you can't get stacked clasps and multiple awards of the Lifesaving Ribbon for savings multiple lives. You can only earn it once. If it wasn't for organ transplant, you get the star device. No other devices, no multiple awards, nada.
Where does it say you can't earn more than one...
Last I checked you just can't affix another device to THAT ribbon. If you earn 2 Silver Medals of Valor, you put another ribbon on. 39-1 says that if you can't fit the devices for another award on the ribbon to wear another ribbon. i.e. encampment... you've been 25 times...you can't put 4 silver clasps and 4 bronze clasps on one ribbon...the fix, put the remaining devices on another encampment ribbon. Same thing applies to the other ribbons. Since you can't put another star on, you denote subsequent awards with another ribbon.
Although it may look goofy to see 3 of the same ribbons straight across one row, I've seen it more than once.
This guy actually. A close friend who pinned on my "blood wings".
(http://www.jacksonvillesquadron.org/images/airborne_graduation.jpg)
He has so many Air Medals that he had 3 separate ribbons, all with oakleaf clusters or whatever device is worn on them. As a CAP cadet at 14, I even asked him about it when I had lunch with him in the Pentagon
"why do you have three of the same ribbon", I asked. He told me exactly what Jimmy wrote up top. Like it or not, I guess its legit.