What does CAP do for a presidential visit? If nothing; what could we do if this were to be a mission?
Thank you
Quote from: usafcap1 on April 22, 2014, 06:49:56 AM
What does CAP do for a presidential visit? If nothing; what could we do if this were to be a mission?
Thank you
Q1 - Essentially nothing. Maybe a crowd line with the right opportunity, but not likely these days.
Q2 - It's a solution looking for a problem. No mission.
Run in a circle with its hair on fire?
We were notified of a chance to participate in a Presidential visit, turned out to be a lot of work for nothing because as soon as the people doing the advance planning heard "a bunch of cadets", they said "no", because they didn't want to deal with backgrounding a ton of adults to watch them.
They must have confused us with Romper Room.
(http://i.imgur.com/McbHza4.gif)
I've been involved with 3 visits, on the public safety side. Trust me, they don't need CAP.
Ive been involved in a couple presidential type visits on the LE side. G.W. Bush, McCain while he was the Republican Candidate and VP Cheney and several for the CA Governor (Terminator and Moonbeam). I really cant see where CAP would fill a role. The president and VP come with a literal armada of weapons and aircraft and drain local LE of every possible resource and body available. A designated candidate has their own Secret Service protection that taps local LE and public safety a governors have their own state police dignitary protection. Its such a fast moving and rehearsed routine. I couldn't really see where volunteers and/or cadets would fill a niche. You arent going to get anywhere near the Pres or VP thats for sure. Although I did manage to stand about 5 feet from Cheney and McCain with my .45 :) But I had the good guy pass.
NER has been involved in posting notices at the GA airports for upcoming Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) due to Presidential visits. You'd be amazed how many airports are effected by the President landing in Boston, Providence or Martha's Vinyard.
"Sound and fury, signifying nothing"
Quote from: Phil Hirons, Jr. on April 22, 2014, 03:56:54 PM
NER has been involved in posting notices at the GA airports for upcoming Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) due to Presidential visits. You'd be amazed how many airports are effected by the President landing in Boston, Providence or Martha's Vinyard.
We've done that as well.
With POTUS' hometown (for now) still being in Chicago, his holiday home visits wreck havoc with local GA.
Quote from: a2capt on April 22, 2014, 02:33:43 PM
We were notified of a chance to participate in a Presidential visit, turned out to be a lot of work for nothing because as soon as the people doing the advance planning heard "a bunch of cadets", they said "no", because they didn't want to deal with backgrounding a ton of adults to watch them.
They must have confused us with Romper Room.
When the Vice President's wife visit Nellis AFB during and Airshow....the Secret Service AIC asked for us to help with a crowd control cordon..... wanted the cadets involved.
So YMMV.
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 22, 2014, 03:47:06 PM
Its such a fast moving and rehearsed routine. I couldn't really see where volunteers and/or cadets would fill a niche. You arent going to get anywhere near the Pres or VP thats for sure. Although I did manage to stand about 5 feet from Cheney and McCain with my .45 :) But I had the good guy pass.
Depends on the tempo and wishes of the President as well. I had a impromptu 20 minute talk with former-President Bush, Senior. He wanted to talk with a local student and I was asked. I was searched by Secret Service, given specific rules (no politics), and then introduced. We had a good talk about fishing. Somewhere I have a picture of him and me next to each other. I was also allowed to talk with first-lady Clinton for 10 minutes. She wanted a local student to talk with and got lucky a second time. We talked education.
Maybe an honour guard...beyond that I doubt there is much we could do that he does not have already worked out well in advance.
When G.H.W. Bush was President, I remember he flew into the nearby airport for a campaign stop.
I thank God I was not anywhere nearby. As I understand it, the local LEO's, State Police, U.S. Marshals, Secret Service and anyone else you can think of had the roadways around the airport "sanitised" to the point of creating nightmarish traffic snarls.
In retrospect I wish I could have been nearby to see Air Force One land, but I doubt I could have got close enough to the airport.
Quote from: LSThiker on April 22, 2014, 06:53:10 PM
Depends on the tempo and wishes of the President as well. I had a impromptu 20 minute talk with former-President Bush, Senior. He wanted to talk with a local student and I was asked. I was searched by Secret Service, given specific rules (no politics), and then introduced. We had a good talk about fishing.
I would probably have wanted to talk airplanes with him...remember, he was a Naval Aviator and has a DFC and three Air Medals. One of the first models I built as a kid was a TBF Avenger (which he flew). He got his Ensign's commission three days before his 19th birthday...I cannot see how he got that without a four-year degree, except for the fact that there was a war on.
Seriously, I would not want to talk politics with any sitting or former President. Inevitably there are going to be points of disagreement (I am all over the map politically) and I would rather not spoil such an occasion.
Quote from: LSThiker on April 22, 2014, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 22, 2014, 03:47:06 PM
Its such a fast moving and rehearsed routine. I couldn't really see where volunteers and/or cadets would fill a niche. You arent going to get anywhere near the Pres or VP thats for sure. Although I did manage to stand about 5 feet from Cheney and McCain with my .45 :) But I had the good guy pass.
Depends on the tempo and wishes of the President as well. I had a impromptu 20 minute talk with former-President Bush, Senior. He wanted to talk with a local student and I was asked. I was searched by Secret Service, given specific rules (no politics), and then introduced. We had a good talk about fishing. Somewhere I have a picture of him and me next to each other. I was also allowed to talk with first-lady Clinton for 10 minutes. She wanted a local student to talk with and got lucky a second time. We talked education.
My experience with this sort of thing was when I was not active in CAP. I went down to Little Rock to the opening of the Clinton Library for a journalism class assignment. The two girls I was with were kind of timid about being in a room full of high-powered folks like Hilary and Bill and a LOT of celebrities. They were wanting a picture with Hilary and I said I would arrange it. I just walked up to Madame Senator and said "Madame Senator, I have two young ladies who would like a photo with you." She didn't say a word, just turned and smiled and the two girls got a picture of a lifetime.
This was the first time I was introduced to the Secret Service, as well. They do not want their picture taken or being included in video. I was warned...once. I complied. No, it had nothing to do with me approaching her. This was way before we were allowed on the property.
Got to meet Bill again, Hilary, George Stephanopolous, Judge Reinhold, Morgan Freeman (who fussed about my female companion's choice of footwear for the cold, rainy day), Bono, got my photo taken with Robin Williams...saw John Kerry from a distance and I swear that man is 9 feet tall. Didn't see Dubya because we were asked to not be in the area when he was travelling back to AF1. Also, my female companion (she is going to remain nameless)'s ex boyfriend is the Soldier who accidentally bopped Hilary with an umbrella when she was speaking.
When I was with DHS, I was assigned to a JTF doing protection details during the 08 elections. Got to meet the then Senators Obama and Clinton, Senator McCain, and Governor Palin. It was a great way to spend a few months, and hear vastly different speeches each time they appeared. Now, I live about a mile from the sometimes home of AF2. My son loves when it flies over my house...
Couldn't it go under a HLS mission?
Quote from: CyBorg on April 22, 2014, 07:23:57 PM
I would probably have wanted to talk airplanes with him...remember, he was a Naval Aviator and has a DFC and three Air Medals.
If I recall correctly, I think that was on the list of please do not ask. Either way, fishing was what he wanted to talk about. Fishing would not have been my first choice subject. Since it was entirely unexpected to be asked, I think I was going to ask him about leadership.
Barring what you thought of him as a President, he seemed pretty down to Earth really. Also on the list of rules was "do not call him President or Former-President". Call him Mr. Bush or sir.
QuoteSeriously, I would not want to talk politics with any sitting or former President.
Neither would I (unless it was journalistic piece or something). The Secret Service were probably just sick of people being stupid and asking.
Quote from: Phil Hirons, Jr. on April 22, 2014, 03:56:54 PM
NER has been involved in posting notices at the GA airports for upcoming Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) due to Presidential visits. You'd be amazed how many airports are effected by the President landing in Boston, Providence or Martha's Vinyard.
Actually, no, I wouldn't :)
Depending on where they center the 30nm arc, my DZ's airspace sits *just outside* [ETA: "when the boss comes to Boston"]:
http://www.skyhavennh.com/_sky-pics/tfr-bos-030811.jpg (http://www.skyhavennh.com/_sky-pics/tfr-bos-030811.jpg) (upper left, our parachute symbol is right on the edge)
As long as our pilot climbs to altitude towards Nashua and north, we're good. :)
And when Dubya would fly into PSM to visit dad? Those poor guys at Skydive New England were hosed.
(until they got permission to continue flying as long as they let a secret service guy fly right seat.. Serious!)
I worked a crowd line as a cadet at the 1964 Democratic convention in Atlantic City. It was excruciatingly boring, hot, and physically demanding because we didn't get to sit down the whole time we were there. It made similar details at air shows seem like parties.
Such duty would be even less of a fit for today's cadets than it was 50 years ago.
Had a conversation with Bush Sr. about how a centrifugal fire pump works, at a campaign stop at our firehouse. He actually seemed interested, but I was never sure if he was just being a real good politician or if he enjoyed the distraction during an exhausting campaign. Either way, it was pretty cool.
I've lost count of how many dignitary protection details I worked at LAX. Every President from Carter to Bush II, Pope John Paul II, Nelson Mandela, bunches of Prime Ministers, Princes, potentates.
Anyway, even being a long-time CP guy, I can't think of a mission for CAP at any of them. Two major problems, if a mission could be identified, are training and coordination. Every agency involved is expected to supply people trained for the mission and also expected to supply knowledgeable decision makers for planning meetings. Whenever we did planning for air shows or crash exercises, CAP would send whoever was available, not necessarily who would actually be performing the mission. N
A more serious problem - CAP has trouble giving firm numbers for staffing commitments. If they say they will provide 50 and only 20 show up, that's not good.
A case in point - we used to get all sorts of promises from CAP for "victims" at aircraft incident exercises. Nobody from CAP ever knew how many to expect until the actual event. Then they'd literally count who showed and that would be their number.
Quote from: usafcap1 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:03 PMCouldn't it go under a HLS mission?
Sure, but again, we'd need something to do (as in a "mission"). What would you propose CAP could bring to the table when a VIP visits town?
Quote from: Fubar on April 23, 2014, 02:37:54 AM
Quote from: usafcap1 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:03 PMCouldn't it go under a HLS mission?
Sure, but again, we'd need something to do (as in a "mission"). What would you propose CAP could bring to the table when a VIP visits town?
A feel good photo op?
Quote from: Fubar on April 23, 2014, 02:37:54 AM
Quote from: usafcap1 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:03 PMCouldn't it go under a HLS mission?
Sure, but again, we'd need something to do (as in a "mission"). What would you propose CAP could bring to the table when a VIP visits town?
I don't know something along the lines of maybe photo reconnaissance of ports, access points to said airfield, etc. and what ever else the customer wanted.
That's me two cent, what's yours?
The Secret Service usually has that all figured out days to weeks ahead of time, and maintains a history, so they don't have to reinvent the wheel for each visit. And I doubt that they would be willing to hand out travel/routing info to just anyone.
Quote from: SarDragon on April 23, 2014, 08:21:00 AM
And I doubt that they would be willing to hand out travel/routing info to just anyone.
The SS can keep all that stuff. We don't need to know, unless it's a Need To Know situation and even at that I think S or TS eyes can view that type of information.
I just think that CAP could do more. At least in my Wing. . .
If you are on a base, contact the Base PAO to see if you're needed or what part you can play. If off base, contact the local political party chair and go from there.
As a former Air Force PA type with a Security Forces background, I was involved with two presidential visits, one Secretary of State visit and a visit by the Vice Premier of China while assigned to Elmendorf AFB. Each time we were assigned to special support team that reported to a White House advance team -- in two cases, directly to the White House Chief of Staff. Also, I was one of the military photographers at President Reagan's last Inauguration.
If the involvement is indirect, your personnel would more than likely just be other faces in the crowd. If directly, you would be assigned specific duties after being properly vetted.
Last comment is to advise you that it is NEVER as exciting or as dynamic as it sounds. However, you get a good exposure to EVERYTHING that goes on in the background.
Contact the local USSS office Special Agent in Charge and lay out what you have to offer.
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2014, 01:27:05 PM
Contact the local USSS office Special Agent in Charge and lay out what you have to offer.
And they will politely say "Thank you" and that'll be the last you hear from them. CAP can provide little to none of the things that the USSS needs when doing these visits. Could they arrange to have the boss walk past a group of cadets? Sure. Is CAP going to be providing commo, or security, or helping little old congresscritters to their seats? Maybe in a bygone era, but not in today's complex threat environment.
I remember the briefing we got from the SS one time. I was on a street assignment blocking a road in a crown Vic. I was pretty much told if I step in front of the caravan I will be run over and they won't stop. Same to the motor scouts if they slowed down in front of the caravan. They'd hit them and keep going. The guy had no smile when he said it. I took him at his word.
Quote from: THRAWN on April 23, 2014, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2014, 01:27:05 PM
Contact the local USSS office Special Agent in Charge and lay out what you have to offer.
And they will politely say "Thank you" and that'll be the last you hear from them. CAP can provide little to none of the things that the USSS needs when doing these visits. Could they arrange to have the boss walk past a group of cadets? Sure. Is CAP going to be providing commo, or security, or helping little old congresscritters to their seats? Maybe in a bygone era, but not in today's complex threat environment.
Especially if Cadet Lowbrow dares his buddy Cadet Bagodonuts to do something stupid on a dare. Hey, it could happen. If some dumb jackwagon 16 year old can outwit airport security and hop a free ride to Hawaii in the wheel well of a plane...
Quote from: THRAWN on April 23, 2014, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2014, 01:27:05 PM
Contact the local USSS office Special Agent in Charge and lay out what you have to offer.
And they will politely say "Thank you" and that'll be the last you hear from them. CAP can provide little to none of the things that the USSS needs when doing these visits. Could they arrange to have the boss walk past a group of cadets? Sure. Is CAP going to be providing commo, or security, or helping little old congresscritters to their seats? Maybe in a bygone era, but not in today's complex threat environment.
Three years ago....they seemed to like us. So it does not hurt to ask.
http://www.okwgcap.org/2012/05/10/okwg-civil-air-patrol-supports-presidential-visi/ (http://www.okwgcap.org/2012/05/10/okwg-civil-air-patrol-supports-presidential-visi/)
Quote from: THRAWN on April 23, 2014, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2014, 01:27:05 PM
Contact the local USSS office Special Agent in Charge and lay out what you have to offer.
And they will politely say "Thank you" and that'll be the last you hear from them. CAP can provide little to none of the things that the USSS needs when doing these visits. Could they arrange to have the boss walk past a group of cadets? Sure. Is CAP going to be providing commo, or security, or helping little old congresscritters to their seats? Maybe in a bygone era, but not in today's complex threat environment.
I was just trying to be nice. You can tell people all day long that it's not needed. At some point they just need to hear it from the source.
Quote from: LSThiker on April 22, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Barring what you thought of him as a President, he seemed pretty down to Earth really. Also on the list of rules was "do not call him President or Former-President". Call him Mr. Bush or sir.
He seems like he would have been a down-to-earth person, especially away from the Bravo Sierra that is Washington.
As to the title - I thought Presidents were allowed to keep the form of address for life, unless in this case it was Mr Bush's personal preference.
Quote from: usafcap1 on April 22, 2014, 06:49:56 AM
What does CAP do for a presidential visit? If nothing; what could we do if this were to be a mission?
In Hawaii Wing, we provide air defense targets to spin up the HIANG fighters and Coast Guard helos on the AD procedures and ROE a couple of days before Obama arrives for his Christmas vacation every year. We've done similar things before other events with presidential participation such as the APEC meeting in 2011.
During the visit? I don't think so. We've got nothing to put on the table that's not already handled with a capital H.
Quote from: CyBorg on April 24, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
He seems like he would have been a down-to-earth person, especially away from the Bravo Sierra that is Washington.
As to the title - I thought Presidents were allowed to keep the form of address for life, unless in this case it was Mr Bush's personal preference.
They are. However, I guess that was his personal preference.
If you ever saw what is involved in a presidential visit, you'd never want to participate in it.
No POTUS visit should never involve rounding up and jailing 'undesirables' weeks before the visit, blocking half the roads in and out of the city, tossing people out of their homes and businesses on threat of arrest and training loaded sniper rifles on bystanders.