All right, some of you may well think I am being sarcastic here, but I am not.
Just when did all the Bravo Sierra about uniforms start? I am going to assume (hope?) that there was at least some era when there was not griping about uniforms, nor was there a division of "AF" v. "corporate."
I joined in September 1993. That was during the early "berry boards" era, and, as I have said, the members of my first unit were quite bitter. Back then the G/W kit was solely the white shirt, no epaulettes, grey trousers, black blazer nameplate, no ribbons or devices, and the "smurf suit."
Ever since I have been in, there has always been at least a simmering undercurrent of discontent (which often reaches boiling point on CT), to put it mildly, about uniforms.
So when did all this start?
I joined in 1987 as a cadet and don't remember any issues with uniforms, other than the occasional discussion about when we were going to get BDUs.
I would say that it started in 1941....sometime in December.
I remember reading somewhere that CAP pilots during WWII would make their own wings. The reason being that the issued ones didn't look military enough. So I would have to guess that it's been going on for at least 70 years. The internet just allows us to be more vocal about it.
I think the BS about uniforms were probably always there in certain degree. The problem with the internet and forums like these is that this BS becomes concentrated and then amplified. Thus today simply makes it sound worse. However, it probably really started ramping around the time corporates were introduced.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 10, 2014, 09:06:27 PM
I would say that it started in 1941....sometime in December.
OK, Master Sergeant, rim shot. :clap:
However, I doubt that the earliest members of CAP groused about uniforms, at least not the way we (and I include myself in that) do now.
Quote from: LSThiker on March 10, 2014, 09:37:06 PM
I think the BS about uniforms were probably always there in certain degree. The problem with the internet and forums like these is that this BS becomes concentrated and then amplified. Thus today simply makes it sound worse. However, it probably really started ramping around the time corporates were introduced.
I would say you are correct on both counts. If we still had the uniforms of the 1980s, I think there would be a lot less induced acid reflux happening.
When I joined we wore the basic blue uniform and fatigues. Some pilots wore smurf suits or old flight suits. Occasionally someone would have a shade 84 shirt, a service coat, or a poplin jacket. Most of us wore flight jackets of varying origins(even with blues and fatigues) and nobody got really bent out of shape unless you were too far out there. At that time, getting hold of this stuff was the major accomplishment. Getting a hold of the right stuff was a miracle of circumstance.
We were less obsessed with uniforms up until some time in '90's.
In the early '70's, CAP even recruited plain clothes members as owner-pilot specialists -- guys who trained for missions, but didn't wear uniforms or attend weekly meetings.
After some supposedly aviation insurability driven concerns, sometime in '70's uniforms were optional for seniors unless flying or dealing directly with cadets. Utility uniforms-fatigues and flight suits- could be worn without grade if you were fuzzy or under tall. And, if you were fuzzy, under tall or fashion-impaired, the smurfsuit was usable at weekly meetings or as a utility uniform.
In that era, some of us kept red or orange or yellow jackets with silkscreen or reflectorized markings as our 'go to airport at night for ELT's' ensemble- worked great with blue jeans- unofficial 'raid' jacket.
When OG107 fatigues went, so did USAF utility uniforms for fuzziness and under talls.
If somebody's got better recollection ...
Personally, I think it's a CAP Talk thing. Other than checking the mirror to make sure everything is in place, I don't know anyone who gives anything more than a passing thought about uniforms.
Quote from: tribalelder on March 11, 2014, 12:29:23 AMIn the early '70's, CAP even recruited plain clothes members as owner-pilot specialists -- guys who trained for missions, but didn't wear uniforms or attend weekly meetings.
You can see what was leading up to that ..
From an early 1970 issue of Flying Magazine:
(http://s27.postimg.org/kdvmy2exv/CAPRecruiting1970.png)
A new kind of membership, the "General Aviation" membership. From an era when member owned assets supported the organization. As opposed to now.
(http://s10.postimg.org/vdvoyle61/CAPRecruiting1971.png)
"Here's my check for at least eighteen bucks" ..
The
New Civil Air Patrol
Quote from: CyBorg on March 10, 2014, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on March 10, 2014, 09:06:27 PM
I would say that it started in 1941....sometime in December.
OK, Master Sergeant, rim shot. :clap:
However, I doubt that the earliest members of CAP groused about uniforms, at least not the way we (and I include myself in that) do now.
I don't know about that.....CAP started with USAAF uniforms with the red epaulets...but that went away by wars end IIRC. One could speculate that the CAP members of that day were not happy with what they were given and did a lot of grousing and complaining to get it changed.
Quote from: EMT-83 on March 11, 2014, 01:09:36 AM
Personally, I think it's a CAP Talk thing. Other than checking the mirror to make sure everything is in place, I don't know anyone who gives anything more than a passing thought about uniforms.
Nah, more of an internet thing. There's plenty of chatter on the topic in other social media venues as well.
I've had plenty offline conversations about uniforms. I know a lot of members hate the G/Ws. A lot of them hate it so much, they wear blues, regs be [darn]ed.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 11, 2014, 04:06:53 AM
I've had plenty offline conversations about uniforms. I know a lot of members hate the G/Ws. A lot of them hate it so much, they wear blues, regs be [darn]ed.
The same goes for me. However, I don't know too many that violate the regs and wear the blues. They wear the G/W's, and kind of treat it as the price they have to pay for being in CAP (outside of the well-known monetary aspects) and unable to wear the AF uniform...kind of like the "bitter pill" to swallow.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 11, 2014, 04:06:53 AM
I've had plenty offline conversations about uniforms. I know a lot of members hate the G/Ws. A lot of them hate it so much, they wear blues, regs be [darn]ed.
I wear 'em, but I don't like 'em. Because, hey, the rules are the rules.
When i came in back in 86, the uniforms were pretty nice. It was really hard to tell a SM from a regular AF officer so I don't know that there was much to gripe about. It was when the separation really started to move that I seem to notice it more.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 10, 2014, 09:06:27 PM
I would say that it started in 1941....sometime in December.
I agree :clap:
Quote from: a2capt on March 11, 2014, 01:55:22 AM
(http://s10.postimg.org/vdvoyle61/CAPRecruiting1971.png)
"Here's my check for at least eighteen bucks" ..
The New Civil Air Patrol
Now you have to go to a meeting or take a lesson online to stay "safety current". :)
Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was but a young snot-nosed cadink both cadets and senior members wore AF-style. Even then, some wore the uniform well, others... well wore 'em jacked up. Not much different than today, even with blues and grays.
There were some senior members that were seriously overweight wearing blues - I can remember one female senior member at the time who actually took two (count 'em, two!) light blue blouses and tailored them to fit her ample body. You could tell they were from two different shirts because of the ever so slightly different batches of cloth.
When I joined the first time in 63, we were wearing khaki's and low quarters. Of Course I was a Cadet, but we didn't gripe about anything. We had fun. Spent 10 days at Chanute AFB, flew a C-119 and a C-47 each for about 10 minutes (actually they flew me). We studied in a National Guard hanger with F-89's (Scorpions) sitting in the middle and if we were good we could sit in them. We did no search and rescue, that was for the seniors. We did drill and ceremonies. We sponsored German cadets one year. We learned a lot about flying and a lot of seniors had their own planes and would take us up a lot. It was fun and a lot of us joined the military because of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^
When I first started in CAP, Scott AFB still had a T-33 for the fighter pilot types to go out and get their hours on. It may even be the same one that Bud Day flew when he was assigned as an ROTC instructor in St. Louis.
Quote from: AirAux on March 11, 2014, 05:39:18 PM
When I joined the first time in 63, we were wearing khaki's and low quarters. Of Course I was a Cadet, but we didn't gripe about anything. We had fun. Spent 10 days at Chanute AFB, flew a C-119 and a C-47 each for about 10 minutes (actually they flew me). We studied in a National Guard hanger with F-89's (Scorpions) sitting in the middle and if we were good we could sit in them. We did no search and rescue, that was for the seniors. We did drill and ceremonies. We sponsored German cadets one year. We learned a lot about flying and a lot of seniors had their own planes and would take us up a lot. It was fun and a lot of us joined the military because of it.
How cool was that! Thanks for sharing 8)
I sense alot of "Back in My Day" Stories will commence Quickly on this Forum.
Back in my day + uniforms = how cool was that 8)
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 11, 2014, 05:28:18 PM
Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was but a young snot-nosed cadink both cadets and senior members wore AF-style. Even then, some wore the uniform well, others... well wore 'em jacked up. Not much different than today, even with blues and grays.
There were some senior members that were seriously overweight wearing blues - I can remember one female senior member at the time who actually took two (count 'em, two!) light blue blouses and tailored them to fit her ample body. You could tell they were from two different shirts because of the ever so slightly different batches of cloth.
I remember a giant cadet at my second encampment who was so big someone sewed panels in his fatigue shirt and pants and they were still too tight. They even sewed 3 blues belts together to fit him.
-THREE- belts? The things are 44 inches each. That means something larger than a size 88. I just put an 8 foot CAT 5 cable on the floor in a circle, end to end, to visualize that.
Thats .. I'm sorry. But that's huge. Someone has more things to worry about than encampment, and would probably find most facilitates where encampments are held to be quite inconvenient with that girth.
Quote from: lordmonar on March 10, 2014, 09:06:27 PM
I would say that it started in 1941....sometime in December.
Dec 1, 1941 0900: SM Doe " We're a civilian organization! Why should we wear army uniforms?"