If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
No, not all services offer E-3 for the Mitchell award. The Army offers E-2 for example.
CG is E-3.
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 18, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
There are five armed services and seven uniformed services.
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 18, 2014, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 18, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
There are five armed services and seven uniformed services.
He did say other 4.
I don't think the Marines recognise our cadet achievements at all - can anyone confirm/deny?
It boils down to what you get at the time you sign. We've had some cadets get something, others not, being on a Marine base, we get prior cadet Marines in, too, and they say the same thing.
This is definitely something that the cadet must ask about when he/she visits the recruiter(s). If the advanced grade is available, make sure that it's written into the contract. Visit more than one branch, so that you can tell the recruiter what the other services are offering.
Exactly. For the Army, there is a lot of leeway in the ranks E-2 and E-3. Even though the Mitchell gets E-2, I have seen a number of former Mitchell Cadets, including me, get E-3 in the Army.
I guess I had it easy as I was both a JROTC cadet and a CAP cadet. I had every branch offering me advanced grade based on those two certificates alone. Each one offered me advanced grade of E3 starting. Of course that was back in 1999 but hey times change.
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 18, 2014, 08:34:34 PM
I guess I had it easy as I was both a JROTC cadet and a CAP cadet. I had every branch offering me advanced grade based on those two certificates alone. Each one offered me advanced grade of E3 starting. Of course that was back in 1999 but hey times change.
Some minor things have changed but not much over the years. I remember the NG was offering the advanced rank for recruiting people back in the late 90s and early 2000. It was like 1 person in you get E-2, two people in you get E-3. Not sure if it still exists today, but I am sure similar programs are around. Of course at that time there were no Rep63 training programs that you see today.
When I enlisted the Marines did recognize my Mitchell award and gave me contract PFC E-2. But maybe I was lucky and had a good recruiter.
Quote from: LSThiker on January 18, 2014, 06:28:58 PM
Exactly. For the Army, there is a lot of leeway in the ranks E-2 and E-3. Even though the Mitchell gets E-2, I have seen a number of former Mitchell Cadets, including me, get E-3 in the Army.
I received E3 in the Army for my Mitchell, but that was in 1995 :o
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 18, 2014, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 18, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
There are five armed services and seven uniformed services.
When I said "other 4 branches", I meant the branches of the Armed Forces
other than the Air Force.
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
There are a few other here and there examples of advanced promotion. For example, if you are a paramedic and enlist as a 68W through Army Civilian Aquired Skills Program (ACASP), they will give you E-4 and shave about 8 weeks of AIT off. Basically, you skip the EMT-B portion and focus on just the medicine in a combat environment portions.
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 19, 2014, 02:24:52 AM
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 18, 2014, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 18, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
There are five armed services and seven uniformed services.
When I said "other 4 branches", I meant the branches of the Armed Forces other than the Air Force.
And...you said it correctly.
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 05:30:43 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
There are a few other here and there examples of advanced promotion. For example, if you are a paramedic and enlist as a 68W through Army Civilian Aquired Skills Program (ACASP), they will give you E-4 and shave about 8 weeks of AIT off. Basically, you skip the EMT-B portion and focus on just the medicine in a combat environment portions.
I wasn't aware they did. We had several people fast-track through when I was at Ft. Sam in 2009, but only those with Bachelor's Degrees were E-4s. Is this a recent change?
Quote from: 68w10 on January 19, 2014, 06:30:06 AM
I wasn't aware they did. We had several people fast-track through when I was at Ft. Sam in 2009, but only those with Bachelor's Degrees were E-4s. Is this a recent change?
I cannot say how long that has been around. However, if I remember correctly, I heard about back in 2000. Not all fast-trackers through 68W will get E-4. If I recall correctly, if you are EMT-B, you only E-3 but still skip the first 8 weeks.
As of about a month ago, they were not giving E-4 for anyone regardless of civilian skill. Thats for the NG, maybe active is different
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 08:50:19 AM
As of about a month ago, they were not giving E-4 for anyone regardless of civilian skill. Thats for the NG, maybe active is different
And that will change based on "the needs of the service".
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 07:03:11 AM
Quote from: 68w10 on January 19, 2014, 06:30:06 AM
I wasn't aware they did. We had several people fast-track through when I was at Ft. Sam in 2009, but only those with Bachelor's Degrees were E-4s. Is this a recent change?
I cannot say how long that has been around. However, if I remember correctly, I heard about back in 2000. Not all fast-trackers through 68W will get E-4. If I recall correctly, if you are EMT-B, you only E-3 but still skip the first 8 weeks 5 weeks.
FTFY, sorry to nitpick, but that's how long the EMT portion is taking them these days.
On the USAF side it has been there since the '80's.
Quote from: 68w10 on January 19, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 07:03:11 AM
I cannot say how long that has been around. However, if I remember correctly, I heard about back in 2000. Not all fast-trackers through 68W will get E-4. If I recall correctly, if you are EMT-B, you only E-3 but still skip the first 8 weeks 5 weeks.
FTFY, sorry to nitpick, but that's how long the EMT portion is taking them these days.
When did that change? It was the first 8 weeks was the BLS, EMT, and NREMT certification.
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 08:50:19 AM
As of about a month ago, they were not giving E-4 for anyone regardless of civilian skill. Thats for the NG, maybe active is different
There you go. As always, check with recruiters as they will have the most up-to-date information.
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: 68w10 on January 19, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 07:03:11 AM
I cannot say how long that has been around. However, if I remember correctly, I heard about back in 2000. Not all fast-trackers through 68W will get E-4. If I recall correctly, if you are EMT-B, you only E-3 but still skip the first 8 weeks 5 weeks.
FTFY, sorry to nitpick, but that's how long the EMT portion is taking them these days.
When did that change? It was the first 8 weeks was the BLS, EMT, and NREMT certification.
I'm not sure, but as of 2009 (and my newer Medics are giving the same time frame) they were squeezing the course into 5 weeks.
Quote from: a2capt on January 18, 2014, 06:37:21 AM
It boils down to what you get at the time you sign.
+1
Convince the recruiter and get it in writing. Preferably get your Date of Rank (DOR) the same as Date of Enlistment (DOE) so you start getting Time in Grade (TIG) from day one. And start getting used to speaking in Three Letter Abbreviations (TLA) ;D
Quote from: Noble Six on January 18, 2014, 10:50:24 PM
When I enlisted the Marines did recognize my Mitchell award and gave me contract PFC E-2. But maybe I was lucky and had a good recruiter.
I concur, the Marines will sign you up as a PFC E-2. Last I heard the others will give you E-3.
Quote from: LSThiker on January 19, 2014, 05:30:43 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
There are a few other here and there examples of advanced promotion. For example, if you are a paramedic and enlist as a 68W through Army Civilian Aquired Skills Program (ACASP), they will give you E-4 and shave about 8 weeks of AIT off. Basically, you skip the EMT-B portion and focus on just the medicine in a combat environment portions.
The Navy used to have a similiar program, called the Advanced Pay Grade Program. Depending on your civilian skills you could come in as high as a E-6.
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
It depends on the situation. Some services (ie. Navy) want you to have a Bachelor of Science in particular disciplines. So if you have a Liberal arts degree in underwater basketweaving or sanskrit, you may not be eligible for a Commission. It all really depends on recruiting quotas.
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
That is an individual preference. The duties of an officer and NCO are vastly different. Some people do not like the "leadership" duties of an officer but like the the hands-on duties of an enlisted person. I have meet a number of enlisted persons in the Guard and Reserves that had a tremendous amount of responsibilities during their normal jobs. They wanted to join the military (for various reasons) but did not want to take on extra responsibilities. Even though they had a master's degree (or in one case a PhD in genetics), they simply just wanted the lifestyle of an enlisted or the job of an enlisted (the PhD wanted to be a medic).
Quote from: LSThiker on February 01, 2014, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
That is an individual preference. The duties of an officer and NCO are vastly different. Some people do not like the "leadership" duties of an officer but like the the hands-on duties of an enlisted person. I have meet a number of enlisted persons in the Guard and Reserves that had a tremendous amount of responsibilities during their normal jobs. They wanted to join the military (for various reasons) but did not want to take on extra responsibilities. Even though they had a master's degree (or in one case a PhD in genetics), they simply just wanted the lifestyle of an enlisted or the job of an enlisted (the PhD wanted to be a medic).
My question was more rhetorical than anything else. I retired from the Air Force as an E7. My son-in-law is the CSM (E-9) for 1st Divison, 1st Cav. If I'd gotten off my butt and taken two more classes I could have gone for a commission. No one to blame but me. He has a degree but wanted to be with his troops. Now he's with the General and Division staff. So much for being with his troops.
My point was really, you work so hard for that education, it seems like a waste of time not to get the commission.
Now days you see more enlisted people with college degrees. Some higher than some officers. It's a better educated military than when I was in.
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
If you have a degree but didn't do ROTC then you're route to a commission is by enlisting. Your degree means you'll be an E-4 until/if you get your commission. As a TAC Officer at OCS I'm seeing the standards being raised each class and that means several people who enlisted with a degree with a promise of OCS are failing out and now are back in a line unit as a Specialist.
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 08:50:19 AM
As of about a month ago, they were not giving E-4 for anyone regardless of civilian skill. Thats for the NG, maybe active is different
Since it's for the Guard, I wonder if it's on a state-by-state basis?
Quote from: CyBorg on February 02, 2014, 01:06:59 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 08:50:19 AM
As of about a month ago, they were not giving E-4 for anyone regardless of civilian skill. Thats for the NG, maybe active is different
Since it's for the Guard, I wonder if it's on a state-by-state basis?
I've said it already, but you can say it with me again!
Needs of the service!If they need bodies for specific slots and giving them E4 is the only way they can get them, then it will happen
until they get those slots filled.
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
I have an AAS (3.735 GPA) plus a load of classes I ended up not needing because my college switched to a semester from a quarter system. >:(
When I joined the ANG the recruiter told me that I had enough raw credits for a bachelor's degree and they had a system whereby if you signed a contract to go to a state school and take a few other classes, somehow all those credits I had would have been shoehorned into the bachelor's degree I needed for a commission...but you had a VERY limited time to complete these classes before you could go to ANG AMS at McGhee-Tyson (now, I believe, co-located at Maxwell with OTS).
As I was also working full-time there would not have been enough hours in the day for me to do it.
Like others have said, there are a lot of SNCO's with graduate-level degrees. However, with the exception of the Air Force, all of the other services give the opportunity for those senior-level people to become warrant officers.
I believe that the Army Aviation MOS is the only one where someone can walk in off the street and qualify to be a warrant...all the others require time as enlisted/NCO. Some years ago I knew a CG recruiter E-7 who applied and got "warranted."
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 19, 2014, 02:24:52 AM
Quote from: GroundHawg on January 18, 2014, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: nmkaufman0 on January 18, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
If a CAP Cadet earns C/2LT, he or she can get promoted to the E-3 pay grade if he or she were to enlist in the Air Force. Do Cadet officers have the same promotion advantages in the other 4 branches of the Armed Forces?
There are five armed services and seven uniformed services.
When I said "other 4 branches", I meant the branches of the Armed Forces other than the Air Force.
You were correct, I apologize for my misread. The Coast Guard usually gets left out and I'm quick to make sure they get their due. Too quick this time! Sorry!
Quote from: Grumpy on February 01, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Quote from: JK657 on January 19, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
Recently with the draw down the ability to get promoted prior to BCT in the Army has been greatly reduced. I enlisted back in 2007 and there were so many incentives that just about everybody got E-2 or E-3. Now, its the opposite, E-1 (fuzzies) are the most common and pretty much the only promotions you are getting is for college. A bachelors degree still does equate to an E-4 though.
If you have a bachelors degree why wouldn't you try for a commission instead of E-4?
You should read the book, "Blackhawk Down". The movie does not explain why Grimes knows how to type. He had a BA and did ROTC but no officer spots were open on active, reserve or in the guard. So he took E-4 and the Ranger slot he wanted.
In the Navy my daughter's coworkers in Air Traffic Control, the majority have a bachelors degree but they are all enlisted.