I recently had someone tell me the flight cap is worn with the top closed (making a single ridge fore and aft) for males, and open for females. I was dubious, having not seen that in 20 years of wearing similar headgear in the Navy, but allowed that this could be an unwritten Air Force tradition. Several google searches and conversations with former Zoomies later, I figured I'd ask here.
Has anyone heard of this?
I've never seen it. My unit has a lot of AD Air Force.
Nope......someone is selling you a line Tim.
I understood that the unwritten rule was you wore it with the top open if you are a fighter jock.
The fishtail was another matter entirely
Proper wear:
(http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/New_Corp_Uniform_Flight_cap_no_grad_DAB0BD427DB4E.jpg)
How else would you wear it?
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 07:47:35 PM
The fishtail was another matter entirely
Is that where the back looks like you slept in it?
I remember that from my time in AFJROTC in the late 80's. However, when I got to the USAF in the early 90's, that wasn't called out like it was in JROTC.
Per AFI 36-2903:
6.2.4.1. (Male and Female) The flight cap will be worn slightly to the wearer's right with vertical creases of the cap in line with the center of the forehead and in a straight line with the nose. The cap extends approximately 1 inch from the eyebrows in the front and the opening of cap is to the rear.
No difference in wear between the sexes.
However, I do always wear it that way and I don't wear the female flight cap. ;)
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 07:47:35 PM
I understood that the unwritten rule was you wore it with the top open if you are a fighter jock.
The fishtail was another matter entirely
I heard the same thing, and was given the reason that it's because the top opens when the hat is too tight. Usually due to a swollen head >:D
Are these the same hat?
(http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/New_Corp_Uniform_Flight_cap_no_grad_DAB0BD427DB4E.jpg)(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7563/yw1x.jpg)
Is it because, presumably, a female member has hair to tuck in?
Never noticed this before.
There is a female flight cap that is worn with the peak open. The female flight cap has a curved profile as opposed to the rectangular profile of the male flight cap.
I've noticed the difference in the pictures, but as there is no accompanying textual description of the gap, didn't consider it prescriptive. AFI 36-2903 states nothing regarding degree of gap either. No Air Force personnel I've spoken with indicate one way or the other. I'm beginning to suspect the circumstances of a photo shoot have dictated someone's understanding of the proper wear of the cap.
Not the same hat. From the side, the female hat is cut much shorter in overall height and tapers to the back whereas the male hat is basically rectangular when they are laid flat.
Quote from: Lt Col Tim Day on January 03, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
I've noticed the difference in the pictures, but as there is no accompanying textual description of the gap, didn't consider it prescriptive. AFI 36-2903 states nothing regarding degree of gap either. No Air Force personnel I've spoken with indicate one way or the other. I'm beginning to suspect the circumstances of a photo shoot have dictated someone's understanding of the proper wear of the cap.
I have heard that males should have the top of their flight cap closed since before the female flight cap even existed, let alone that picture. It is not based on that picture is my point.
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1315/g9sy.jpg)
AAFES catalog shows enlisted female cap open, but when you look at them flat they are much more curved as mentioned
above.
Oh my bad.....I thought the question was about females wear the male flight cap.
Yes...the female flight cap.....worn by females is open. When females wear the male flight cap....it is closed.
Quote from: lordmonar on January 03, 2014, 08:12:22 PM
Oh my bad.....I thought the question was about females wear the male flight cap.
Yes...the female flight cap.....worn by females is open. When females wear the male flight cap....it is closed.
Well, what do you know about that... ok, given that there's no verbiage in either AFI 36-2903 or CAPM 39-1 regarding "closed" or "open" what is the degree of closed or openness you look for during inspections? That is, let's say the member's flight cap is worn such that it meets all the criteria listed: worn slightly to the wearer's right, vertical creases of the cap in line with the center of the forehead and in a straight line with the nose, cap extends approximately 1 inch from the eyebrows in the front, opening of cap is to the rear.
Do you merely eyeball the open/closed state or is there some AF gouge?
I use my eye ball.....if it is male....and it is too open....hat is too small. If it the female hat and it is too closed.....the hat it too big, or not being worn correctly over the hair.
As for the USAF pilot crush.....yes they do wear that here on Nellis......I don't let my cadets do it.
Quote from: Lt Col Tim Day on January 03, 2014, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 03, 2014, 08:12:22 PM
Oh my bad.....I thought the question was about females wear the male flight cap.
Yes...the female flight cap.....worn by females is open. When females wear the male flight cap....it is closed.
Well, what do you know about that... ok, given that there's no verbiage in either AFI 36-2903 or CAPM 39-1 regarding "closed" or "open" what is the degree of closed or openness you look for during inspections? That is, let's say the member's flight cap is worn such that it meets all the criteria listed: worn slightly to the wearer's right, vertical creases of the cap in line with the center of the forehead and in a straight line with the nose, cap extends approximately 1 inch from the eyebrows in the front, opening of cap is to the rear.
Do you merely eyeball the open/closed state or is there some AF gouge?
Jeeze, Tim, are you leave today or something???? ;D
Quote from: ProdigalJim on January 03, 2014, 09:41:13 PM
Jeeze, Tim, are you leave today or something???? ;D
Snow day sir! I actually did go in, but it was very dead. So now I'm undergoing a little professional development.
Thanks to lordmonar and Al Sayre I think I've made another step in looking less like a Naval Aviator pretending to be a CAP Officer. I've already fixed the habitual "fin" or what was referenced here as a "fish tail" or "Pilot Crush" (which I don't let our cadets do either). Fingers still twitch every time I put the cap on. Today I've learned that the AF cares about the gap at the top of the cap, just not enough to write it down.
My "fighter jock flight cap wear" example always came from the Thunderbirds team photos going back, well, forever.
Examples:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIEovkPAnXLMeIBw0M9Wgma8Yq7OODYSGEkA44xwNxFkrzJkbziQ (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIEovkPAnXLMeIBw0M9Wgma8Yq7OODYSGEkA44xwNxFkrzJkbziQ)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1R-X6xOuHwo/StCxSokEy5I/AAAAAAAASok/4kzRKJRwr4A/s400/Aircraft+of+the+'Thunderbirds'+US+Air+Force+Air+Demonstration+Squadron+fly+as+they+perform+during+an+air+show+at+Don+Muang+airport+in+Bangkok+on+October+10,+2009.+5.jpg)
(http://www.peterson.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/090525-F-1688D-026.jpg)
and the most obvious one:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3523/3261148605_4d92011fdc_o.jpg)
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
Then you have these guys:
(http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_12_2010/post-18845-1293769983.jpg)
But you can count on the Jarhead on the team to keep it real:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd57/phrogpilot73/BA1.jpg)
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
Then you have these guys:
(http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_12_2010/post-18845-1293769983.jpg)
But you can count on the Jarhead on the team to keep it real:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd57/phrogpilot73/BA1.jpg)
^^^
:clap: :clap: :clap: (in lieu of the "LIKE" button)
I always wonder why guys with "BTDT" to spare need to feel "extra" special.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 03, 2014, 11:57:20 PM
I always wonder why guys with "BTDT" to spare need to feel "extra" special.
Because you don't understand psychology. >:D
To the OP: I don't think I ever wondered about this particular part of wearing a flight cap in 37 years of wearing them. Curious.
I'm guessing the 'duck tail' is the flight cap's equivalent of the '50-mission crush'.
Some of it is wearing the correct size hat too. If it's too small you tend to get "opened up" look.
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:44:21 PM
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3523/3261148605_4d92011fdc_o.jpg)
Wow, look at pilots 2, 3, and 4. In this case, I have to admit, the blue angels look better during their ground performances.
Quote from: ol'fido on January 04, 2014, 01:31:51 AM
To the OP: I don't think I ever wondered about this particular part of wearing a flight cap in 37 years of wearing them. Curious.
I'm with you. Though, my experience was 20 years flying with the Navy. As an aviator I pretty much took it out of my flight suit pockets and jammed the "fore-and-aft" cap on my head as if expecting a hurricane. As I put the cap on my head, I'd use the index finger and thumb to kind of "tweak" the last couple of inches of the ridge so that I had a "vertical stabilizer" back there. The only time I was ever confronted over the way I wore my cap it was to let me know I failed to look like an aviator (before I learned to make the tail fin).
If I were an AD Air Force pilot I might not care... might keep the pilot crush even if the AFI said not to and Chief Master Sergeants all looked at me funny. But, I'm not - I'm a CAP officer and a Deputy Commander for Cadets and it's my job to wear it the "right way." It's not that pilot's aren't professional. We're just as picky about the way we train people to run a checklist or fly an approach. But the cadets have to start somewhere, and learning how to wear a uniform the right way is that good place to start, and the right way means the way it's written in the book, and since I'm training them I guess I have to model it right.
All that's to say I appreciate everyone's input - have learned something new and may either get a slightly larger cap or not jam it down so hard on my brain housing group.
Quote from: LSThiker on January 04, 2014, 04:20:44 AM
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:44:21 PM
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3523/3261148605_4d92011fdc_o.jpg)
Wow, look at pilots 2, 3, and 4. In this case, I have to admit, the blue angels look better during their ground performances.
That's because they have their hats pulled all the way down to their ears. If they were wearing them properly, i.e. higher up on their heads, they wouldn't have opened up like that.
But that's The Thunderbirds. They have their own way of doing everything and don't you dare question it! :o ::)
I never heard any other way. ??? I think it looks much more professional to have the male flight caps closed.
The "tuck" is a rated thing. Used to be prohibited by the regs, the fighter mafia took care of that.
Quote from: Mustang on January 05, 2014, 04:37:43 AM
The "tuck" is a rated thing. Used to be prohibited by the regs, the fighter mafia took care of that.
Not a "rated" thing. A fighter pilot thing. Never saw a heavy driver do it.
Quote from: PHall on January 05, 2014, 05:36:23 AM
Quote from: Mustang on January 05, 2014, 04:37:43 AM
The "tuck" is a rated thing. Used to be prohibited by the regs, the fighter mafia took care of that.
Not a "rated" thing. A fighter pilot thing. Never saw a heavy driver do it.
It was explained to me one time that the tuck is "for" pilots after breaking the sound barrier (so basically fighter pilots). Do not know if it is true and in all honesty, do not really care. It is like people complaining about the "ranger" roll for patrol caps, which has essentially stopped with the ACUs. Although I do see it occasionally and it looks worse.
And then there are our RAF/Commonwealth allies:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Tedder1943_crop.jpg/175px-Tedder1943_crop.jpg)
Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Tedder, deputy to "Ike."
When I was a Boy Scout, we were told to wear the garrison cap at a slight angle similar to Sir Arthur here.
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2014, 12:30:55 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 03, 2014, 11:57:20 PM
I always wonder why guys with "BTDT" to spare need to feel "extra" special.
Because you don't understand psychology. >:D
Correctomundo. Chicks dig "Top Gun" so you got to be with the 'look'. Hollywood, cool 8)
Quote from: Private Investigator on January 06, 2014, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2014, 12:30:55 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 03, 2014, 11:57:20 PM
I always wonder why guys with "BTDT" to spare need to feel "extra" special.
Because you don't understand psychology. >:D
Correctomundo. Chicks dig "Top Gun" so you got to be with the 'look'. Hollywood, cool 8)
I understand that there is a fine at the Naval Fighter Weapons School for quoting or referencing "Top Gun", the movie.
Quote from: ol'fido on January 06, 2014, 11:54:52 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on January 06, 2014, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on January 04, 2014, 12:30:55 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 03, 2014, 11:57:20 PM
I always wonder why guys with "BTDT" to spare need to feel "extra" special.
Because you don't understand psychology. >:D
Correctomundo. Chicks dig "Top Gun" so you got to be with the 'look'. Hollywood, cool 8)
I understand that there is a fine at the Naval Fighter Weapons School for quoting or referencing "Top Gun", the movie.
Those fines are usually payable in Hopped Beverages!
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
That used to be called the "TAC Tuck." Of course, there's no more TAC. And I'd guess calling it the "ACC Tuck" wouldn't be the same...
Quote from: NEBoom on January 07, 2014, 02:28:36 AM
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
That used to be called the "TAC Tuck." Of course, there's no more TAC. And I'd guess calling it the "ACC Tuck" wouldn't be the same...
Other than that, those two gentlemen look very good in their uniforms.
But would you say that to their faces?
>:D
Flyer
Quote from: usafaux2004 on January 07, 2014, 04:31:34 AM
Quote from: NEBoom on January 07, 2014, 02:28:36 AM
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
That used to be called the "TAC Tuck." Of course, there's no more TAC. And I'd guess calling it the "ACC Tuck" wouldn't be the same...
Other than that, those two gentlemen look very good in their uniforms.
I would hope so since they are both current (at the time the picture was taken) Unit Commanders.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on January 07, 2014, 04:31:34 AM
Other than that, those two gentlemen look very good in their uniforms.
Except their faces tell a story of "this is not going to end well" :)
Quote from: usafaux2004 on January 07, 2014, 04:31:34 AM
Quote from: NEBoom on January 07, 2014, 02:28:36 AM
Quote from: NIN on January 03, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
(http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/air-force-south-carolina-atlantic-pilotjpg-eb3fdb342db8dd98_large.jpg)
That used to be called the "TAC Tuck." Of course, there's no more TAC. And I'd guess calling it the "ACC Tuck" wouldn't be the same...
Other than that, those two gentlemen look very good in their uniforms.
Ahh, but did you tape test them first? :P
Quote from: shuman14 on January 07, 2014, 08:32:40 PM
Ahh, but did you tape test them first? :P
They're pilots, and hence close enough to Godhood to not have to worry about such plebian matters. :P