It is unfortunate that there is not a category for leadership, but such is life I guess. A lot can be learned from our mistakes in leadership or missed opportunities for leadership. This is essentially the purpose of an after-actions report/review. I do not necessarily mean the "had I taken this job, I could have become the Encampment Commander" type of missed leadership opportunities. I mean the: I made a mistake being a leader and gave a person the wrong advice.
For example, I had a soldier that was reprimanded in Iraq for screwing around. Ultimately, he accidentally stabbed a fellow soldier in the hand (nothing serious, no stitches) when they were horsing around. When we redeployed back to the US, as with a number of redeployments, the company leadership changed. The new company commander, first sergeant, PLs, and a few BN officers were standing around talking about this soldier and the incident. The soldier in general was a pain in my fourth point of contact throughout my entire deployment and we (the then commander, XO, me, and his platoon sergeant) had thought about sending him back to the US for a failure to adapt. So when all the new leaders were talking, they were grossly mis-telling the story and embellishing what really happened. Finally, I decided to correct them all on the story (read stand up for the kid). Which did not earn any friends in the unit or the BN.
In the corner of the room sitting quietly, there was a specialist that was friends with him. Well the specialist had told the soldier what I had done. The soldier came in and thanked me for standing up for him. My response back to him was plainly and sternly "I believe everyone deserves a fair chance". Nothing more. The soldier had a confused look and left. Unfortunately, I was a bit busy and did not really think about the incident until later in the day. The specialist came up to me and later told me that he again talked with the soldier about what I had said. The specialist at least understood what I was getting at, but it was clear my message to the soldier was misunderstood. I think the soldier finally got it after the specialist explained to him.
My point is, I obviously failed to communicate my message clearly. Fortunately, the specialist understood what I was saying. Had he not though, the situation could have been worse. Even though it has been years since then, I still think about it and wonder "how better could I have handled that situation?"
So what are your failed or missed leadership opportunities? Or times when you wondered if you could have handled a situation better?
P.S. when I corrected the others, a BN staff officer made the quick comment "well that was not how the report told the incident". My comment back was: "Funny, I wrote that report and was physically there. I think I know the situation better than you". Fortunately, I was leaving the unit and battalion later that week.
Quote from: LSThiker on December 20, 2013, 05:29:30 AM
P.S. when I corrected the others, a BN staff officer made the quick comment "well that was not how the report told the incident". My comment back was: "Funny, I wrote that report and was physically there. I think I know the situation better than you". Fortunately, I was leaving the unit and battalion later that week.
Perhaps you wrote your report up in a way that gave that BN Staff Officer and others the wrong impression of the incident?
You admit the soldier was not so super, giving you trouble, then him injuring another soldier. You also admit that he was reprimanded. Was it an official reprimand or simply a verbal "settle down" reprimand?
You were physically present during the "stabbing", wrote up a report that would have led to a reprimand yet you downplayed the nature of the incident when your company leadership was discussing it, YET you also admit you seriously considered sending this troubled soldier back to the US because he was doing things of such a seriously negative nature that he would most likely face discharge.
Had I been your Commander and received your "correction" in front of the other company leadership and Battalion Staff, you would be writing a totally different "Leadership Failure" story.
In 1997 our young medic was horsing around with his bayonet (yes, we were issued bayonets back then) and it ultimately ended up in his thigh and requiring stitches. I was a team leader at the time and saw what happened. Stupid? Yes, but not worthy of any formal paperwork. After all, he got what he deserved by getting stitches and ruining a set of BDU pants. The overweight non-tabbed LT wanted to make an example of this guy (out sole platoon medic). The platoon sergeant and I strongly encouraged the LT to let us handle it, but he wouldn't give in, however, he did free to simply issuing a written counseling.
Fast forward to 10+ years and that young medic turned out to earn a green beret as an SF engineer, earned the rank of SFC and then CW3, has a couple of bronze stars with "V", earned a masters degree and now does work for an OGA.
What happened to the butter bar? Made captain but was put out for failing the PT test too many times.
GIs, like cadets, are not stupid. They know when one of their peers has screwed the pooch enough to get "official" punishment and they will accept that. What they appreciate is a commander that will go to bat for them even if they ultimately get the full weight of the UCMJ actions. They don't appreciate a commander who will throw them to the wolves without fighting for them. I have seen it happen in my old infantry company. One commander, mustang, would go to bat for soldiers to the fullest extent possible even if they did end up getting punished. His replacement, West Pointer, would basically go to the BC and work out the harshest way to hammer the soldier. We highly respected the mustang and couldn't stand the ring knocker. All the senior, career infantry NCOs went looking for other jobs on post and were replaced by retreads from other branches who wanted to get promoted.
Quote from: Patterson on December 20, 2013, 06:03:21 AM
Perhaps you wrote your report up in a way that gave that BN Staff Officer and others the wrong impression of the incident?
You admit the soldier was not so super, giving you trouble, then him injuring another soldier. You also admit that he was reprimanded. Was it an official reprimand or simply a verbal "settle down" reprimand?
You were physically present during the "stabbing", wrote up a report that would have led to a reprimand yet you downplayed the nature of the incident when your company leadership was discussing it, YET you also admit you seriously considered sending this troubled soldier back to the US because he was doing things of such a seriously negative nature that he would most likely face discharge.
Had I been your Commander and received your "correction" in front of the other company leadership and Battalion Staff, you would be writing a totally different "Leadership Failure" story.
Ah, I see the where the wrong assumptions are being made. The soldier was a general pain and we had considered sending him home, but that was well after this incident. Up to this point was he tolerable. My report was literally 1 paragraph long. It was simple and to the point. Here is the edited version:
At local time 2136 on 17 August, Soldier X and Soldier Y were horse playing in the barracks area of FOB XMV, Iraq. According to Soldier X, he jokingly pulled a knife at the same time Soldier Y turned around. Soldier Y's hand came into contact with Soldier X's knife blade causing a small wound. Soldier Y agrees with this story. According to the CPT C, company physician assistant, Soldier Y is still operationally fit and will require no further medical follow-up. A general counseling statement was conducted on Soldier X and sworn statements taken from other soldiers in the area. All soldiers agree that it was an accident and that Soldier X was not acting maliciously. I recommend no further actions to be taken towards this soldier.
The report was then agreed and signed by the company commander, which I had actually written and he signed. If that can be taken in any other way, then those ways are the rumor mills. The counseling statement was destroyed as per regulations later after the redeployment.
Oh and by the way, I had DOR on the BN staff officers (1LTs). He was a freshly pinned 1LT and I was leaving to pin CPT the next week. This is probably why I made such a quick comment. Either way, the comment was only directed at him and the rest of the party (including my commander) acknowledge having the wrong information. She and I did discuss the incident later and was glad that I was willing to set the record straight rather than having her continue with the wrong information.
Interestingly, the Air Command and Staff College course has some really good information about critical thinking and critical reading. I wonder why the Army PME I had taken never hit on these topics.
Quote from: ol'fido on December 20, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
GIs, like cadets, are not stupid. They know when one of their peers has screwed the pooch enough to get "official" punishment and they will accept that. What they appreciate is a commander that will go to bat for them even if they ultimately get the full weight of the UCMJ actions. They don't appreciate a commander who will throw them to the wolves without fighting for them. I have seen it happen in my old infantry company. One commander, mustang, would go to bat for soldiers to the fullest extent possible even if they did end up getting punished. His replacement, West Pointer, would basically go to the BC and work out the harshest way to hammer the soldier. We highly respected the mustang and couldn't stand the ring knocker. All the senior, career infantry NCOs went looking for other jobs on post and were replaced by retreads from other branches who wanted to get promoted.
I had a company commander that went to bat for a stellar NCO that his only mistake in life was getting caught with marijuana. He was demoted to PFC, which he made back rather quickly. To this date, had no other problems.
Quote from: Stonewall on December 20, 2013, 12:12:23 PM
What happened to the butter bar? Made captain but was put out for failing the PT test too many times.
1LT and CPT are pretty much automatic promotions. I cannot find the information right now, but 1LT promotions were like 98-99% and captain promotions were around 95-96% of army officers a few years ago.
Although interesting, but what I am looking for is your leadership failures or mistakes. We can analyze other people's mistakes all we want. Or take the easy route and analyze Billy Mitchell's leadership "style". It is easy to find other's mistakes. However, it can be difficult to find our own mistakes.
There's your communication issue again. Topic should be YOUR leadership failures in that case.
Quote from: Stonewall on December 20, 2013, 12:12:23 PM
In 1997 our young medic was horsing around with his bayonet (yes, we were issued bayonets back then) and it ultimately ended up in his thigh and requiring stitches. I was a team leader at the time and saw what happened. Stupid? Yes, but not worthy of any formal paperwork. After all, he got what he deserved by getting stitches and ruining a set of BDU pants. The overweight non-tabbed LT wanted to make an example of this guy (out sole platoon medic). The platoon sergeant and I strongly encouraged the LT to let us handle it, but he wouldn't give in, however, he did free to simply issuing a written counseling.
Fast forward to 10+ years and that young medic turned out to earn a green beret as an SF engineer, earned the rank of SFC and then CW3, has a couple of bronze stars with "V", earned a masters degree and now does work for an OGA.
What happened to the butter bar? Made captain but was put out for failing the PT test too many times.
If the chubby 2LT did not make an example of the young medic, he would not have done well in his career. If somebody tells you to dot the 'i' and cross the 't' you become more diligent. I have seen lots of good troops never get corrected on little things they screwed up on and sure enough they want to test the boundries or they know one of the 'good ole boys' will take care of them. A good example is the simple sexual harrassment that escalates into rape.
When I was an FTO on the police department I had a trainee who had a bronze star with a "V". He watched what he did around me because I corrected him the first time he was out of line. The other FTOs were Veterans too but let him slide when he was 'teaching' bad guys a lesson. He got terminated on probation because he was so heavy handed with the homeless, mentally ill, skateboarders, college kids, eventually everybody.
The lesson learned there, is a bronze star with "V" does not make you the perfect soldier, it recognizes you for doing great job. But it is not a 'free pass' and does not qualify you to become a general. 8)
Quote from: Patterson on December 20, 2013, 06:03:21 AM
Quote from: LSThiker on December 20, 2013, 05:29:30 AM
P.S. when I corrected the others, a BN staff officer made the quick comment "well that was not how the report told the incident". My comment back was: "Funny, I wrote that report and was physically there. I think I know the situation better than you". Fortunately, I was leaving the unit and battalion later that week.
Perhaps you wrote your report up in a way that gave that BN Staff Officer and others the wrong impression of the incident?
Have you read, About Face: The Odyssey of an American Warrior by Col David Hackworth, USA Ret.? Interesting story about a battle in the Korean War where no one but a few American teenagers survive. One deserved a Medal of Honor but nobody who survived knew how to write it up. Eventually many years later the deed was recognized. 8)
Quote from: usafaux2004 on December 20, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Topic should be YOUR leadership failures in that case.
Funny, I think I did:
QuoteA lot can be learned from our mistakes in leadership or missed opportunities for leadership. This is essentially the purpose of an after-actions report/review. I do not necessarily mean the "had I taken this job, I could have become the Encampment Commander" type of missed leadership opportunities. I mean the: I made a mistake being a leader and gave a person the wrong advice.
QuoteSo what are your failed or missed leadership opportunities? Or times when you wondered if you could have handled a situation better?
Notice how none of my pronouns are "he/she" or "they", but rather "I" or "you".
Topic is not op.
Leadership isn't just about taking care of the good troops, it sometimes involves saving the lost as well. It's easy to dump a screw up and move on. But nothing shows one of the basic forms of leadership as salvaging a troop that straightens out and becomes better because of his or her mistakes. Nobody learn everything about leadership from books or academies. All leaders need to be exposed to all types of troops, the great, the good and the screw-ups. It is more challenging fixing the broke or at least making an effort. The ones that you can't save still make them better and help you to become a better leader.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on December 20, 2013, 07:02:27 PM
Topic is not op.
So let me get this straight, you are saying because the title did not include the word "Your", that caused the entire body of the post to loose all context?
Quote from: DennisH on December 20, 2013, 07:19:26 PM
Leadership isn't just about taking care of the good troops, it sometimes involves saving the lost as well. It's easy to dump a screw up and move on. But nothing shows one of the basic forms of leadership as salvaging a troop that straightens out and becomes better because of his or her mistakes. Nobody learn everything about leadership from books or academies. All leaders need to be exposed to all types of troops, the great, the good and the screw-ups. It is more challenging fixing the broke or at least making an effort. The ones that you can't save still make them better and help you to become a better leader.
I 100% agree with you. Cultural competence, even within our own society, is important for any leader to understand. So here is a question, it is easy to find books, classes, websites, and other resources about understanding other cultures outside of the US. What are some good resources for understanding the cultures that exist in the US? Personally, I have not ran across a good one yet.
This is just my personal opinion but to really understand a culture you should seek out and participate with that culture which may sound like a bogus answer .
In Iraq in 2009 I had a SRA that was at best a turd. He was continuously late, overweight, looked like a bag of ass, and then when corrected gave major attitude back. I finally had enough and after tearing into him one day, had to go up the chain.
The First Shirt gave him one warning, and yup, he was late the next day. His punishment was removal of all personal time. He decided that they were not going to take away his time off, and didn't show up for formation or his shift. That's when it got bad.
A BIRD COLONEL and two armed SF troops showed up. The Col. gave him 5 min to be in uniform on his way to work or he was going to jail. He was allowed to stay in theatre and finish the tour.
Here is where both my leadership and I failed. I wrote up his article 15, and his LOE in which I recommended demotion and a bar from re-enlistment. I should have done everything in my power to get him sent home early. Not only was this turd allowed to stay in, when we returned back to home station, he was promoted to SSgt. I couldn't believe what was happening. I went to my leadership and was told that they didn't want to not promote him for fear of a IG/OSI investigation because the said waste happened to be a minority. FAILURE.
He was then allowed to deploy again, this time to HOA, and after 3 weeks, was demoted in theatre and sent home. Finally, he was given a Gen Discharge and sent back to whatever rock he crawled out from under.
I should have pushed the issue in 09, and my "leadership" should have stood up and did what was right regardless of how much paperwork or politics they may have had to deal with.
Quote from: GroundHawg on December 21, 2013, 03:39:40 AM
I went to my leadership and was told that they didn't want to not promote him for fear of a IG/OSI investigation because the said waste happened to be a minority. FAILURE.
Thanks for the story.
Interestingly, I had something similar. We had an Army Reserve 09L (Linguist [Arabic]) attached to us while we were in Iraq. The guy was an E-4 and was hoping to get his paperwork in for the E-5 boards. I had no clue about the Army Reserve promotion system, their personnel database/portal, or anything. Nor did our 1SG or CSM. Fortunately, I had an Army Reserve AG battalion or something on my base. Anyway, I started working with a 42A (Human Resource) SGM. She was helping me for a while to get the proper paperwork together for his packet and teaching me how the system worked. We sent his paperwork to a review board and he was ultimately turned down for promotion. They sent me comments on how he could improve his scores and I forwarded those to him. After finding out that he was denied, this E-4 filed an IG complaint against me. He stated that I did not help him because he was Shiite (or maybe Sunni). I knew he was Muslim, but did not know or ever ask him what kind.
So of course I talk with the investigator. I had all the emails between the SGM and me about his packet (at this time the SGM and her unit had redeployed to the US). Also, for my own curiosity, I was sending out weekly interesting historical items that included Iraqi historical statues we saw on post, about the Islam religion, history and culture of Iraq, etc. Well I turned those all over to the investigator as well as the comments on his promotion packet (the most common ding against him was lack of education). The investigator just laughed and said "this whole thing is baseless".