http://www.dailypress.com/news/military/dp-nws-milupdate-1125-20131125,0,4342589.story (http://www.dailypress.com/news/military/dp-nws-milupdate-1125-20131125,0,4342589.story)
"Tasked by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to find ways to preserve force readiness amid sharply falling budgets, his comptroller and the Joint Staff have asked the Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA) for a plan to close all stateside base grocery stores, according to military resale community sources.
Time will tell if this is just the loudest warning shot yet fired by a department desperate for budget relief, or if stateside commissaries, still enormously popular with military families and retirees, are viewed by current military leaders as a costly relic burdening a financially stressed force.
Under Secretary of Defense Robert Hale, the department's top financial adviser, and Air Force Lt. Gen. Mark F. Ramsay, director of force structure, resources and assessment for the Joint Staff, reportedly requested the plan in a meeting with military personnel policy and commissary officials."
(http://blogs.militarytimes.com/flightlines/files/2013/12/jpg)
Not a direct CAP issue, but would effect a lot of our members.
There are non-trivial contractual and procedural issues in the way of the idea, but money is money.
Well, what do you expect. We're back an era of the late 1970s where the military is expected to do everything with little or nothing.
As for closing commissaries, however, I remember that the last time my family used one, we began to question whether it was really a good deal or not. My wife found that paying attention to sales flyers and shopping carefully off base saved more money than we would have derived on-base.
Perhaps the issue here is that more families have realized the same and found savings shopping off base -- which causes less of a market for the on-base commissary, and higher costs.
Haven't stepped foot a commissary in a while, but I went shopping with my brother at the Fort Rucker PX a couple of months back (he's an Army E7). I was not impressed with the prices at all. He told me that neither he nor his family do any real shopping at the PX or the commissary, as they have lousy selection and their prices are on par with the local stores.
Even the gas was a couple of cents a gallon cheaper off base than at the PX gas station.
Along with the request for a plan to be generated to close commissaries, plans were also requested to formulate ways to move all US personnel from Italy, drawdown forces in Korea, contract all medical services currently provided on U.S. installations, shutdown DoD Educational Activties (close grade schools) along with hundreds of other "cost saving ideas".
This is only "busy work" to make it appear that the accountants are actually needed at the pentagon!
Having used both for the last 14 years it's hit or miss depending on where you are at. I get most of my food from a local store and actually save using my VIP card. If you're smart about it the BX does offer a savings on most products. Gas you can save using the Mil Star card. Commissary used to be a savings but with the surcharge and the price of goods going up I get more for my money out in town and I do not get charged tax or a surcharge.
When I was on active duty I rarely shopped at the Commisary, usually only when I needed something quick and didn't have time to go off base.
Closing them would save money and it would open the market up to big box stores (IE Walmart, Meiers, etc.) to compete for contracts to fill the gap left by the closed commisaries. I see that as a good thing.
Quote from: shuman14 on December 04, 2013, 04:37:24 AM
When I was on active duty I rarely shopped at the Commisary, usually only when I needed something quick and didn't have time to go off base.
Closing them would save money and it would open the market up to big box stores (IE Walmart, Meiers, etc.) to compete for contracts to fill the gap left by the closed commisaries. I see that as a good thing.
What makes you think they would replace the DeCA run Commisaries with an "outside" store?
What I could see is the overseas stores and Conus stores that are in "out of the way" places like Ft Hunter-Liggett, CA staying open.
But anything within 20 miles of a big box store would be toast.
But that's just MY opinion. But I don't think congress would let any major store closings happen. Too politically sensative.
Quote from: PHall on December 04, 2013, 04:56:48 AM
Quote from: shuman14 on December 04, 2013, 04:37:24 AM
When I was on active duty I rarely shopped at the Commissary, usually only when I needed something quick and didn't have time to go off base.
Closing them would save money and it would open the market up to big box stores (IE Walmart, Meiers, etc.) to compete for contracts to fill the gap left by the closed commissaries. I see that as a good thing.
What makes you think they would replace the DeCA run Commissaries with an "outside" store?
What I could see is the overseas stores and Conus stores that are in "out of the way" places like Ft Hunter-Liggett, CA staying open.
But anything within 20 miles of a big box store would be toast.
But that's just MY opinion. But I don't think congress would let any major store closings happen. Too politically sensitive.
Well it's like when we use to have no-name AAFES brand fast food places (IE Robin Hoods Sandwiches) on base and now we have name brand places (IE Subway). If the commissaries close, there will be a market to exploit, a gap to be filled, someone (IE Walmart, Meijers) will most likely fill it.
I could be wrong. :-\
Quote from: shuman14 on December 04, 2013, 06:52:49 AM
Well it's like when we use to have no-name AAFES brand fast food places (IE Robin Hoods Sandwiches) on base and now we have name brand places (IE Subway). If the commissaries close, there will be a market to exploit, a gap to be filled, someone (IE Walmart, Meijers) will most likely fill it.
I'm sure DoD gets some
kickbacksshare of the profits from these arrangements.
I also would like to draw attention to the fact that prices are heavily regulated in the Commissary according to laws passed by congress and DOD regulations that mandate the artificial setting of base prices of a particular food or product so that they are no less than 10-18% cheaper than what's found within 50 miles of the installation (Walmart).
Originally the price setting was limited to tobacco and alcohol, but lobbyists convinced policy makers to rob service members of a once awesome benefit by implementing "price fairness".
If anything is considered for closure it should be the Military Exchange organizations.
I have used commisaries on and off for years. I am lucky enough to live near a small one. The prices are hit and miss. Some prices are cheaper others are beyond exspensive. My wife does the shopping and knows her prices. She gets some very good deals sometimes and other times she shops onto her places, wherever the best bang for the buck is. The Commisaries are run by DECA these days and I always had issues with how they waste money or bow to outside complaints from other businesses . Can't understand why we have a Military Officer let alone a General in charge of commisaries but waste fraud and abuse is a government Privledge.
This is from the DECA website
QuoteAlthough commissaries collectively realize sales of about $5 billion per year, there is no profit generated on these sales.
By law, commissaries are required to sell goods at prices that are set at a level to recover the cost of goods, with no profit built into these prices. There are also very stringent legal controls on the ways that DeCA can use taxpayer monies that Congress provides to operate commissaries.
Because commissaries are prohibited by law from making profit on goods sold, and because of the stringent controls on use of funds provided for commissary operation, commissaries cannot use a lot of merchandising practices that commercial stores use routinely.
For instance, commissaries cannot "double" (or otherwise increase) the face value of coupons, commissaries cannot sell goods below cost to create a low price "image," commissaries cannot pay a "rebate" to patrons who return bags for reuse, or who use non-disposable cloth bags, and commissaries cannot donate money or products to an individual or organization, however worthy.
The "great deals" everyone is familiar with at the big box grocery and department stores are actually just greedy tactics to make you think your getting a good deal in the long run.
But if they close the commissaries, where else can I go to get elbowed by 80 year old retirees on moto-scooters and thongs of unruly children on my way through narrow aisles to get my choice of the discounted expired meat, and then pay back the savings by having to tip a cart pusher to push the cart I've been handling the last hour the remaining 50 feet to my car?
Quote from: UH60guy on December 04, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
But if they close the commissaries, where else can I go to get elbowed by 80 year old retirees on moto-scooters and thongs of unruly children on my way through narrow aisles?
There's always Wal-Mart (http://youtu.be/YvxNgdFeWqM), my friend.
Quote
Well it's like when we use to have no-name AAFES brand fast food places (IE Robin Hoods Sandwiches)
Just had a flashback to the glory days of "The Run-in-Chef"........
Quote from: Panache on December 04, 2013, 07:17:46 AM
Quote from: shuman14 on December 04, 2013, 06:52:49 AM
Well it's like when we use to have no-name AAFES brand fast food places (IE Robin Hoods Sandwiches) on base and now we have name brand places (IE Subway). If the commissaries close, there will be a market to exploit, a gap to be filled, someone (IE Walmart, Meijers) will most likely fill it.
I'm sure DoD gets some kickbacksshare of the profits from these arrangements.
Cutting costs
AND earning money. ;)
Quote from: UH60guy on December 04, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
But if they close the commissaries, where else can I go to get elbowed by 80 year old retirees on moto-scooters and thongs of unruly children on my way through narrow aisles to get my choice of the discounted expired meat, and then pay back the savings by having to tip a cart pusher to push the cart I've been handling the last hour the remaining 50 feet to my car?
You must live by an olde commissary. I'm in San Diego, and we have three commissaries in San Diego County that are less than 10 years old, and they suffer none of these complaints. They are well lit, with wide aisles, and if you want to push your own cart out to your car, have at it. The perishables are fresh, and properly rotated.
Commissaries were awesome when we had soldiers stationed on the frontier in the Nevada Territory. Today, there are 50 choices of economial places to shop for groceries.
For an organization so against socialism, you'd think they'd see that commissaries are exactly what they're fighting against...
Quote from: flyboy1 on December 03, 2013, 12:14:29 PM
Well, what do you expect. We're back an era of the late 1970s where the military is expected to do everything with little or nothing.
You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/08/csbachartmon.png)
This one is US defense spending versus global defense spending:
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/4A8078449E794DFB8CC33ADD00A6F1AF.gif)
(http://themoderatevoice.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/02/blinders-mother-jones.png)
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/everything-chuck-hagel-needs-to-know-about-the-defense-budget-in-charts/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/everything-chuck-hagel-needs-to-know-about-the-defense-budget-in-charts/)