What the heck is this?
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n3_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/000000cap0928v_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html)
It looks like a minamalist sillouette of a pixie hairdo. And "Tribal Logo"? Perhaps VG isn't aware of the
ongoing issues with schools and other organizations in regards to their logos and mascots?
Unlike the BSA, we have no lineage to Native American lore or culture, so how does this get approved?
I really wish NHQ types would quit playing around with 'corporate branding' and focus on real issues.
New logo for the NCO Corps Tribe?
It looks like some poor, misguided attempt at stylizing these wings.
Mike
(http://www.uscg.mil/history/gifs/ARS_Shield.jpg)
(http://www.afsoc.af.mil/shared/media/ggallery/thumbnails160/AFG-051109-003.jpg)
(http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/shared/media/ggallery/thumbnails160/AFG-061201-005.jpg)
I spoke to a Vanguard employee at a conference one time. I was told that they are constantly being pushed to create new products that CAP members would be interested in. I dont know how many people have ever been to a conference where Vanguard sets up an entire uniform store on site in one of the side rooms. Ive only been to a conference in CAWG. They were interested in feedback for nonuniform products CAP members would be interested in. Honestly..... that initself is not a CAP emblem. I dont know that CAP has the rights to a red propellor? I think its silly looking but as a company Vanguard is marketing to its customers. I suppose any pilot could buy that. Its not limited to just CAP members.
What would stop me from putting a single red prop on a tshirt and selling it? I doubt CAP as an organization even has anything to do with this.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 02, 2013, 04:38:28 PM
What the heck is this?
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n3_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/000000cap0928v_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html)
It looks like a minamalist sillouette of a pixie hairdo. And "Tribal Logo"? Perhaps VG isn't aware of the
ongoing issues with schools and other organizations in regards to their logos and mascots?
Unlike the BSA, we have no lineage to Native American lore or culture, so how does this get approved?
I think this is less "tribal" with regard to Native Americans and more "tribal" as in the current tattoo culture.
I think I know where it came from..... ;D
Think I found my next tattoo! Oh wait...tribal went out of style...years before I could legally get one. >:D
WHAT IS THAT?
If they want new products, I come at a very reasonable consulting rate and would be happy to design products people would actually buy.
If they want to sell hats to pilots, they need to get rid of the button on the top. They get painful under a headset after a couple of hours...
^Haaaa!!! yeah. everytime I get a new hat the first thing I do is get a set of pliers and pop that button off! :)
On a related note -- why are there always those goobers that think that anything with CAP on it is actually a uniform item and try to wear it with parts of the real uniform?
There are some CAP-branded hats that I've worn over the years while on personal time and I think having non-uniform CAP clothing is a good thing from a public-relations point of view, but like almost everything else CAP does, it causes a uniform problem with some folks. Not a hard one to solve, but still grating.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 03, 2013, 03:24:52 PM
On a related note -- why are there always those goobers that think that anything with CAP on it is actually a uniform item and try to wear it with parts of the real uniform?
I wear this hat with the G/W's.
You wear a baseball cap with a dress shirt?
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
You wear a baseball cap with a dress shirt?
When I have the need to wear a hat (i.e. it's raining or really sunny outside).
Hey, don't blame me. Blame 39-1. I think it looks sloppy too.
I, for one, am grateful. It's about time they paid some respect to us old gray hairs with our long/walrus mustaches. We are the backbone of the organzation..
Looks like someone was playing with the "Hurl" filter in Photoshop...again.
I heart Vanguard ::)
Attention Vanguard:
Do you want more of my money? Of course you do.
Here's an idea ... offer something that I would buy.
For example (and this isn't the only example) ... why not offer full-size versions of the miniature medals? I would most definitely buy those ... and so would many of the Senior Members of CAP.
I know we don't wear them. Members who earn the Distinguished Service Award or the Silver or Bronze Medals of Valor don't wear them after they're presented either. But they'd look great in a shadowbox. And at a suggested cost of $20 - $25 a pop, you'd get a good chunk of change just from me - look at the rack in my signature block and you'll see. You're looking at $360 - $450 at the bare minimum. And I'm not the only one who'd pay for them.
Don't offer me crap like this "tribal" logo or any other stuff you keep putting in your "New Items" part of the website. Offer me something I want.
It's Marketing 101, folks, not rocket science.
Jack
^^ This totally sums up what I'm thinking.
Quote from: NIN on November 05, 2013, 05:57:26 PM
^^ This totally sums up what I'm thinking.
Right?
Make the cadet grades into key chains. I know I'd pick up some pips. Make some iPhone/Android device of the quarter cases with CAP themes. Make some decent bumper stickers. Make some stuff that's interesting and affordable so I can present it to cadets as little rewards.
Why does this hat remind me of Wilfred Brimley?
Quote from: ColonelJack on November 05, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
Attention Vanguard:
Do you want more of my money? Of course you do.
Here's an idea ... offer something that I would buy.
For example (and this isn't the only example) ... why not offer full-size versions of the miniature medals? I would most definitely buy those ... and so would many of the Senior Members of CAP.
I know we don't wear them. Members who earn the Distinguished Service Award or the Silver or Bronze Medals of Valor don't wear them after they're presented either. But they'd look great in a shadowbox. And at a suggested cost of $20 - $25 a pop, you'd get a good chunk of change just from me - look at the rack in my signature block and you'll see. You're looking at $360 - $450 at the bare minimum. And I'm not the only one who'd pay for them.
Don't offer me crap like this "tribal" logo or any other stuff you keep putting in your "New Items" part of the website. Offer me something I want.
It's Marketing 101, folks, not rocket science.
Jack
Any other ideas?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 05, 2013, 06:12:05 PM
Quote from: NIN on November 05, 2013, 05:57:26 PM
^^ This totally sums up what I'm thinking.
Right?
Make the cadet grades into key chains. I know I'd pick up some pips. Make some iPhone/Android device of the quarter cases with CAP themes. Make some decent bumper stickers. Make some stuff that's interesting and affordable so I can present it to cadets as little rewards.
I like those.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 02, 2013, 04:38:28 PM
What the heck is this?
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-stone-navy-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17095.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n3_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-ball-cap-navy-tan-with-prop-and-downward-wings-p-17096.html)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/000000cap0928v_LRG.jpg)
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-t-shirt-heather-grey-w-screened-tribal-logo-p-17109.html)
It looks like a minamalist sillouette of a pixie hairdo. And "Tribal Logo"? Perhaps VG isn't aware of the
ongoing issues with schools and other organizations in regards to their logos and mascots?
Unlike the BSA, we have no lineage to Native American lore or culture, so how does this get approved?
I'm tempted to draw in some eyes, a nose and the rest of Little LuLu's face.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 02, 2013, 04:38:28 PM
What the heck is this?
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg)
The car ahead of me had a similar decal in the window. Instead of the prop it had an "O". When I got closer it was for the University of Oregon. "Tribal Duck" ! ? ???
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 02, 2013, 06:16:55 PM
I dont know that CAP has the rights to a red propellor? ... What would stop me from putting a single red prop on a tshirt and selling it? I doubt CAP as an organization even has anything to do with this.
36 USC ยง 40306: Exclusive right to name, insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, marks, and words. The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol" and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.
But is a "red propeller" trademarked or such by CAP? If not, then it is fair game, even if CAP uses it.
Or just turn the thing the other way. Even if it isn't "theirs". That's like back when IBM essentially tried to trademark division, by getting the "/2" to be theirs., with the introduction of the PS/2 line. "Lets keep the cloners from calling them anything like what we do." It didn't work.
Quote from: RogueLeader on November 11, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
But is a "red propeller" trademarked or such by CAP? If not, then it is fair game, even if CAP uses it.
Red three-bladed prop on a white triangle? CAP.
But, red two-bladed prop on a white circle? Probably not.
Red three-bladed prop, with one blade pointed DOWN, no white triangle? Beats the heck outta me who can or cannot claim that.
It would take a judge to decide and two parties willing to litigate.
It's just like the argument about the name. Title 36 may grant exclusivity to "CIVIL AIR PATROL" but it certainly can't grant exclusivity to the words "civil", "air" and "patrol".
It looks like the prop grew anime hair.
graphics_design.exe has stopped working
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg) | (http://static.tumblr.com/f0a0db2102395c385baba8d857e7eb82/o9nhqv8/ofumpduy0/tumblr_static_balmung__1_.jpg) |
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on November 16, 2013, 07:04:00 PM
It looks like the prop grew anime hair.
graphics_design.exe has stopped working
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg) | (http://static.tumblr.com/f0a0db2102395c385baba8d857e7eb82/o9nhqv8/ofumpduy0/tumblr_static_balmung__1_.jpg) |
omai-wa! kawaii!!!
More like Martha Stewart.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on November 16, 2013, 07:04:00 PM
It looks like the prop grew anime hair.
graphics_design.exe has stopped working
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/00000cap0990n2_LRG.jpg) | (http://static.tumblr.com/f0a0db2102395c385baba8d857e7eb82/o9nhqv8/ofumpduy0/tumblr_static_balmung__1_.jpg) |
Anime would not have entered my thinking. Does that say something about me or you? ;D
Quote from: ol'fido on November 16, 2013, 11:56:11 PM
Anime would not have entered my thinking. Does that say something about me or you? ;D
I've been mainline marathoning some of my old favorites the past couple days, but I'd have probably thought of it anyways lol.
The biggest problem with the hat is that it isn't going to mean anything to 99.9999% of the US population since it doesn't even mention CAP. No one is going to associate it with us so it is an epic fail from a marketing point of view.
The t-shirt is only slightly better since it does have Civil Air Patrol on the back.
I'll take 20
Quote from: RiverAux on November 17, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
The biggest problem with the hat is that it isn't going to mean anything to 99.9999% of the US population since it doesn't even mention CAP. No one is going to associate it with us so it is an epic fail from a marketing point of view.
:clap: :clap:
How on earth did they come up with that logo anyway?
Quote from: ol'fido on November 16, 2013, 11:56:11 PM
Anime would not have entered my thinking. Does that say something about me or you? ;D
Just you, old man >:D
Quote from: Pulsar on November 18, 2013, 04:04:54 PMHow on earth did they come up with that logo anyway?
The background is probably similar to this.. device.
(http://retrothing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/04/atarivideomusic.jpg)
Search for history on the Atari Video Music visual synthesizer.
Quote from: Garibaldi on November 18, 2013, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on November 16, 2013, 11:56:11 PM
Anime would not have entered my thinking. Does that say something about me or you? ;D
Just you, old man >:D
Smile when you say that. >:(
;D
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on November 11, 2013, 10:39:13 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on November 11, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
But is a "red propeller" trademarked or such by CAP? If not, then it is fair game, even if CAP uses it.
Red three-bladed prop on a white triangle? CAP.
But, red two-bladed prop on a white circle? Probably not.
Red three-bladed prop, with one blade pointed DOWN, no white triangle? Beats the heck outta me who can or cannot claim that.
Two things:
CAP doesn't have to go through the trademark process to secure rights to emblems it uses, the federal law I cited earlier provides that protection simply upon adoption.
The accepted standard for copyright is that derived works must be 30% different from the original work. A three-bladed prop, yes--even one turned 120 degrees so that one blade is pointed downward. A two-bladed prop, by itself, CAP probably cannot lay claim to. A red two-bladed prop, probably not either, but you're getting dangerously close to infringement. Add wings to that red two-bladed prop, and you're absolutely infringing--it's the center of the enlisted cadet flight cap device.
Quote from: Pulsar on November 18, 2013, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on November 17, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
The biggest problem with the hat is that it isn't going to mean anything to 99.9999% of the US population since it doesn't even mention CAP. No one is going to associate it with us so it is an epic fail from a marketing point of view.
:clap: :clap:
How on earth did they come up with that logo anyway?
Maybe they imagined a cross between the CAP roundel, a hippie, and a sorry attempt at being "tribal".
Quote from: Mustang on November 24, 2013, 04:47:39 AM
Two things:
CAP doesn't have to go through the trademark process to secure rights to emblems it uses, the federal law I cited earlier provides that protection simply upon adoption.
The accepted standard for copyright is that derived works must be 30% different from the original work. A three-bladed prop, yes--even one turned 120 degrees so that one blade is pointed downward. A two-bladed prop, by itself, CAP probably cannot lay claim to. A red two-bladed prop, probably not either, but you're getting dangerously close to infringement. Add wings to that red two-bladed prop, and you're absolutely infringing--it's the center of the enlisted cadet flight cap device.
I think you'd have a hard time making the case that a 3-bladed prop, in and of itself, could be protected. It's far too generic and is a functional part of too
many real aircraft. I'd say 50-50 that a court challenge wound up with CAP losing on that. Red, in a specific orientation, maybe.
But it would still take both sides caring enough to spend the money, and I'd say the big risk to CAP would be that the indices were created using government
funds and therefore should be in the public domain.
Instead of selling crap like this, why can't Vanguard provide some quality service?
Oh, whoops. Not the party line. NVM.
Quote from: NIN on November 24, 2013, 06:49:29 PM
Instead of selling crap like this, why can't Vanguard provide some quality service?
Oh, whoops. Not the party line. NVM.
I've posted topics on my VG orders for a few years now. No issues at all since I turned SM in 2011.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 24, 2013, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: NIN on November 24, 2013, 06:49:29 PM
Instead of selling crap like this, why can't Vanguard provide some quality service?
Oh, whoops. Not the party line. NVM.
I've posted topics on my VG orders for a few years now. No issues at all since I turned SM in 2011.
Put a VG order in last Friday. Got the notification it shipped THIS Friday.
Ordered some custom stuff from Spur Nametapes at the same time. I've had it for 4 days already. And shipping was $2.
We used Spur for years when we inprocessed new cadets and did our bulk insignia orders (prior to the C&D).