CAP Talk

Operations => Aerospace Education => Topic started by: Eclipse on October 29, 2013, 09:01:55 PM

Title: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: Eclipse on October 29, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
This came to my attention today, but is clearly "olde news".  I don't recall this ever coming up in conversation here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9035708/Cambridge-scientist-debunks-flying-myth.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9035708/Cambridge-scientist-debunks-flying-myth.html)

Physics in a Minute: How wings really create lift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV06PgxarW0#)

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/wrong1.html (http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/wrong1.html)

This would / should definitely be an AE topic.  Is it "corrected" or addressed in the latest texts? (Don't have one here.)
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: JC004 on October 30, 2013, 12:05:11 AM
Does this mean I messed up something on the Mitchell or AEPSM?   :o
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: Eclipse on October 30, 2013, 12:13:11 AM
"Awards rescinded pending review."
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: coudano on October 30, 2013, 12:46:40 AM
Quote from: JC004 on October 30, 2013, 12:05:11 AM
Does this mean I messed up something on the Mitchell or AEPSM?   :o

or your FAA private pilot certificate test
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: HGjunkie on October 30, 2013, 01:24:18 AM
I'm not convinced - Looks like they angled the wing near the critical angle in the video.
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: JC004 on October 30, 2013, 01:53:53 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 30, 2013, 12:13:11 AM
"Awards rescinded pending review."

Crap.  Well don't tell them the first time I took the Aerospace Education Program for Senior Members test was when I was a cadet.  I was bored.  (I took it twice)  When I took the ROA written test, it had a mistake on it.  The instructor kept sending me back to get 100% on it, and I kept returning it the same.  Then we went through it and realized the question and answer key were wrong; wasn't meeeeee.

Quote from: coudano on October 30, 2013, 12:46:40 AM
Quote from: JC004 on October 30, 2013, 12:05:11 AM
Does this mean I messed up something on the Mitchell or AEPSM?   :o

or your FAA private pilot certificate test

Luckily don't have one of those yet.  I need to do that, since I don't have as many personal pilots in the area to fly me around anymore.   >:D
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: JeffDG on October 30, 2013, 02:11:56 AM
http://raphael.mit.edu/Java/ (http://raphael.mit.edu/Java/)
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: CDCTF on October 30, 2013, 02:27:48 AM
I teach my cadets that the "equal transit theory" is not true, and in fact, Mr. Bernoulli's principle is only one minor factor in the creation of lift. The angle of attack is actually what contributes the most to the lift of an aircraft. The exact reason that high performance aircraft can have a symmetrical airfoil and not fall out of the sky.

Basically, Bernoulli's principle explains what happens to a fluid when it goes faster. In this case especially, it doesn't do anything to explain why it goes faster.

For you technical minded folk, this is a great paper from the University of Pittsburgh that explains it much better than I can. But, be warned, a little knowledge of fluid mechanics is probably a prerequisite.
http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/2573/1/aero.pdf (http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/2573/1/aero.pdf)

I think it's a travesty that we oversimplify things, to the extent, that we're really lying to ourselves and our cadets. They're smart, they can take it. The best we can do as real AE educators is explain it, we can't make anyone understand. But that's still better than telling people something that's not true and having them believe they know. When in actuality, they only know something that isn't so.
Title: Re: Bernoulii's Principle incorrectly interpreted regarding aircraft lift.
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on October 30, 2013, 01:40:54 PM
I also took the Yeager as a cadet. One week before becoming a SMWOG.