Some may remember the tale of (former) CAP member Michele Anderson-Tesla (or is it Tesla-Anderson?) from Virginia.
If not, allow me to refresh your memory:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16176.msg311322#msg311322 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16176.msg311322#msg311322)
Seems that the folks over at the blog "This Ain't Hell" are running their (semi?) annual "Stolen Valor" tournament (kinda like the NCAA basketball brackets, but for people who lie about their service or lack thereof) and Ms. Telsa-Anderson-Tesla has made quite a showing through several rounds of voting and is poised to make it into the "Final Four"
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=36751 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=36751)
Lovely.
Quote from: NIN on July 23, 2013, 06:02:10 PM
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=36751 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=36751)
Lovely.
Now that is beaucoup dinky dao! 8)
This woman is like a bad lunch...she keeps coming up. :-\
Every time someone is reminded of this doofus, it's just that little incremental bit harder for the rest of us trying to deal with agencies and peers. "Hey, didn't you guys have that Chelle person..?" And it goes downhill from there.
...sigh...
Quote from: ProdigalJim on July 24, 2013, 11:46:37 AM
This woman is like a bad lunch...she keeps coming up. :-\
Every time someone is reminded of this doofus, it's just that little incremental bit harder for the rest of us trying to deal with agencies and peers. "Hey, didn't you guys have that Chelle person..?" And it goes downhill from there.
...sigh...
Well, for some of this, CAP has met the enemy and he is us (thanks, Pogo).
Anyone who didn't run as fast as possible and as far as possible from her, like your hair was on fire and fire ants were taking up residence in your boxer shorts, when the news broke has no one to blame but themselves.
1) No one in her CoC (from Squadron to Group to Wing) asked for or checked for backup documentation regarding her military service claims?
2) She continued on in her roles/assignments as an administrator for two Facebook CAP discussion pages even after the news broke. Yes, the pages were not officially sanctioned by CAP, but anyone on the outside looking in would be right to question the judgement of allowing her to interact, even via electronic media/communications, with CAP cadets at that point, especially wrt to the **WG Aerospace Education FB page,
3) From what I've heard, her CAP CoC allowed her to end her association with CAP via resignation, instead of 2B'ing her for her obvious breach of CAP Core Values (CAPR 35-3, Sect. B, 4, b, [2] and [6]). Correct me if I'm wrong. If true, that's pretty weak sauce. And,
4) CAP membership assigned to the **WG CoC were still insisting as of April 12, 2013, that the investigation into Ms. Chelle-Michelle Anderson Tesla-Anderson-Tesla's military service claims were still on-going, despite the fact that the TAH article detailing her service record falsifications had been posted on November 5, 2012, FOIA documents included. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Oscar?
To be fair to the units that she encountered, it probably went like this:
She transferred from Texas as part of a family PCS move (fact)
She tells people she's a [however many] year veteran of CAP (fact)
She shows up in her uniform wearing all this stuff and nobody questions it, assuming that her prior unit vetted what she was wearing.
Who is going to march up to someone they just saw at a Wing Conference and go "Hey, nice purple heart. Gimme your orders.."?
As for the last thing, well, thats the ostrich effect to a point. Doesn't make it right, especially if they were presented the FOIA records (NVM the Pentagon spokesperson..)
Quote from: NIN on July 24, 2013, 06:22:04 PM
To be fair to the units that she encountered, it probably went like this:
She transferred from Texas as part of a family PCS move (fact)
She tells people she's a [however many] year veteran of CAP (fact)
She shows up in her uniform wearing all this stuff and nobody questions it, assuming that her prior unit vetted what she was wearing.
Who is going to march up to someone they just saw at a Wing Conference and go "Hey, nice purple heart. Gimme your orders.."?
As for the last thing, well, thats the ostrich effect to a point. Doesn't make it right, especially if they were presented the FOIA records (NVM the Pentagon spokesperson..)
BUT..and a big but here...she already had issues and run in's in TXWG, to include incidents with cadets at an encampment where she was asked to leave and never return, as well as questions about her "service" even then.
The receiving units in a transfer should always make contact with the old unit.
Quote from: NCRblues on July 24, 2013, 06:49:13 PM
<snip>
The receiving units in a transfer should always make contact with the old unit.
Don't disagree, but in a routine transfer situation, most units are not going to look at gift horse in the mouth when a new person comes in the door.
Quote from: NIN on July 24, 2013, 07:02:50 PMDon't disagree, but in a routine transfer situation, most units are not going to look at gift horse in the mouth when a new person comes in the door.
That's the problem - too many units are so desperate for people that anyone new is considered "good", and that doesn't include the misguided commanders
who think the number on their roster means something and will take everyone else's castoffs and empty shirts, then wonder why their unit is in constant drama.
The first thing I do when someone wants to transfer is ask "why?", the second is contact their previous unit or assignment. The harder it is to get
simpler answers and information, the more likely there is a "history".
As noted, there is far too little of that in CAP, whether the moves are lateral or vertical.
I'm also inclined to be cynical and suspicious of everyone, and have found the more "excited" people are to share their accomplishments,
especially early on, the more likely they are suspect or have self-esteem issues. The people I know who are the most accomplished and capable,
both within and outside of CAP, tend to not need to be too vocal about BTDT, since what they are actually doing
now is evidence of where
they have been.
I can tell you this My CC wanted to see my DD-214 First thing before I can even tell people I was Military. He also made a copy for him, and for other people who question it. He was on point making sure I was Legit before he let me around cadets.
I found this interesting that no one within the organization tried to verify the claims she made. To add insult to injury she made local media attention where she is/was living in VA about the tattered flag at her apartment complex. In that story they made sure to put emphasis she was a vet and a Purple Heart vet at that. When the station was contacted they ended up having to retract that bit of information and aired an apology.
I can tell ya if someone came into my squadron with a bunch of chest candy there will be some digging into it to verify the validity of it.
The other side of this coin is that very seldom is someone in charge in CAP willing to stand up and ask hard questions or take a difficult membership action without obvious wrongdoing.
You bend an airplane hot dogging outside of 60-1? Yeah, you're gonna get spanked.
You do something bad CPP wise? Yep, out you go.
But someone saying "Hey, are you sure Major Disaster's Distinguished Flying Cross is legit?" is often met with "Why do I care?"
Again, I can see how these things happen: guy transfers from Wing A to Wing B, has been in CAP for 10+ years and is a Captain. AF vet, has a couple bits of AF fruit salad on the uniform. "Yeah, I flew C-130s in the 80s and got caught up in all the post- Gulf War draw downs during the Clinton years.." You probably wouldn't think twice about it. I might not even (well, nowadays I would).
When I moved from one wing to another, I showed up as a recently promoted Major and a full deck of Army & CAP fruit salad. Nobody batted an eye. My hand-carried 201 did not contain my DD-214 or my NGB Form 22. Suddenly I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets...
Then again, maybe a -214 was asked for and provided. And the guy looking at the 214 had NO idea what he was looking at. Or it was doctored and the guy looking at it had no idea how to determine that.
We've even had conversations about this right here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=12787.0 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=12787.0)
Bottom line is: CAP regs really don't require it, so if its "just a good idea" do you really think ANY unit in the US is doing this on a regular basis? Or just when they get that "this guy is hinky" feeling?
I know her situation was a little different in the fact that she bragged about the Purple Heart and such but...
Maybe the reason this slips under the radar is because of how (many) Senior Members don't wear their ribbons regularly- I think I've only worn mine twice in my time in CAP- for an encampment banquet and graduation. And, as I am active duty Army, that rack included a bunch of non-CAP stuff. No one asked me to verify it. I'm not debating whether they should have or not, that's a whole other discussion, but maybe because they're rarely worn no one bothers to look into it?
Quote from: NIN on July 25, 2013, 11:13:25 AM
The other side of this coin is that very seldom is someone in charge in CAP willing to stand up and ask hard questions or take a difficult membership action without obvious wrongdoing.
But someone saying "Hey, are you sure Major Disaster's Distinguished Flying Cross is legit?" is often met with "Why do I care?"
Nobody wants to be the bad guy. But the way I look at it if you can not be the "bad guy" then do not volunteer to be Commander or Deputy Commander. JMHO YMMV 8)
Has anyone ever run into a real vet that got pissed for checking? I would assume that they would appreciate people not giving posers a chance...
Don't forget to vote!
IMO, if a vet gets pissed because you are Fact Checking him, he/she is hiding something.
Quote from: Devil Doc on July 25, 2013, 02:44:25 PM
IMO, if a vet gets pissed because you are Fact Checking him, he/she is hiding something.
My experience has been that the look on their face and first sentence out of their mouth when you raise the issue answers the question.
Quote from: Devil Doc on July 25, 2013, 02:44:25 PM
IMO, if a vet gets pissed because you are Fact Checking him, he/she is hiding something.
I fake-checked a Navy SEAL at the DZ once. He was legit.
He said "You're faker-checking me, aren't you?" and I admitted I was. He then rattled off his BUD/S class #, his boat captain, swim buddies, etc.
years later, I got introduced to another guy at my DZ, and a week or two after that, someone said "Dave was a Navy SEAL.."
I immediately got my radar up (I've met 20-30 SEALs in my life... all but 2 were fake, so my percentages are poor) and faker-checked him. He laughed and said "You're fake-checking me, aren't you?" and then told me his BUD/S class numbers and dates, swim buddies and even offered phone numbers for two active duty master chiefs who could verify his claim. :)
He was the other of the two.
Quote from: Devil Doc on July 25, 2013, 02:44:25 PM
IMO, if a vet gets pissed because you are Fact Checking him, he/she is hiding something.
Well...it might get a bit tiresome if every place you went decided that because you told a story about something or another, that they then had to run a full background check on you.
Not to mention, when I retire, I don't personally plan on carrying my DD-214 everywhere I go. VA and the Army are lousy about keeping my social security number off things, so why would I want to add to the risk? Sure I could alter it to black that out, but now I'm carrying around an altered document that may make me look like a faker.
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried fake checking someone on active duty? As someone there myself, I don't have the DD-214 to show off- it's only issued at separation. Other ducuments like my Officer Record Brief list awards, but also have more information than I care to share with every random inquisitor not on official business. I wonder if uninformed fake-checkers ever cry foul when someone on active duty (who will not have a DD-214) can't produce that specific document?
IMO the problem is usually best avoided by me not going around trying to prove how awesome I am.
Quote from: UH60guy on July 25, 2013, 04:56:26 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried fake checking someone on active duty? As someone there myself, I don't have the DD-214 to show off- it's only issued at separation. Other ducuments like my Officer Record Brief list awards, but also have more information than I care to share with every random inquisitor not on official business. I wonder if uninformed fake-checkers ever cry foul when someone on active duty (who will not have a DD-214) can't produce that specific document?
Yes, when needed. Generally a copy of their military ID will suffice for proof of rank. Also, a set of orders or an awards certificate will do for proof of ability to wear any military awards, none of which contains a great deal of extra private info. Also, if they can't tell you wear the weight room is at the base gym, or some other insignificant detail, that's a decent red flag.
Checking only comes in when you want something for the service. Position, wear of awards, advancement, etc. I'm sure there are those out there in CAP who served and no one even knows.
Quote from: UH60guy on July 25, 2013, 04:56:26 PMOut of curiosity, has anyone tried fake checking someone on active duty?
They'll have a CAC in their pocket and a commander you can call.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on July 25, 2013, 12:59:45 PM
Has anyone ever run into a real vet that got pissed for checking? I would assume that they would appreciate people not giving posers a chance...
I have been "fake-checked" several times.
I have no problem showing documentation to my chain of command, now with that said...
I stopped wearing my AF bling on CAP uniform because I was sick and tired of every joe blow who happened to be at the same region/wing conference with me demanding to know how/where/when/who of every award I had... So I stopped putting them on. I don't need Capt. AmericabecauseiminCAP demanding to see proof of my NDSM.
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, I'm like that. However, it's because for the most part, I really don't give a crap because I don't really care about people's tales that they want to tell everyone.
Other than Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-Tesla, I haven't run into a single vet who tells their war stories. They'll tell the "you gotta hear this funny thing that happened" story, but other than that, nothing. We don't talk about ribbons, where they earned them, how they earned them. I really don't have time for it, and the people who do feel the need to try and tell me their superhero stories, I just don't listen. "Yeah...I'm a Ranger PJ with 19 tours in Iraq. I was one of the first ones on the ground during Desert Storm. Then because of my elite training, I camped out there until after 9/11, undetected. Then I sniped 2,600 Iraqi Special Forces, hiked across Iran to Afghanistan and continued the barrage." Me, "Oh, Ok. So, about those reports we need."
I have no time for toolbaggery. In my unit, I get people's DD-214s. I know not every commander does, but, like I said, they're few and far between, and most expose themselves for what they are eventually. I don't let random seniors decide to take over cadet classes by awing them with stories of grandeur. CAP is CAP. Even the guest speakers who are certifiable war heroes don't talk about their war stories, they talk about leadership, personal characteristics, "the right stuff," why America needs leaders, etc.
When I rejpined last year there were two things that held my app up. One of those was NHQ wanted a copy of my DD214 and a short phone call later that was cleared up.
Ms. Tesla-Anderson put herself in the position she's in and has no one to blame but herself. To add insult to injury was the VA Wg CV sticking up for her even after being presented with the facts that she was a fake.
Quote from: NCRblues on July 25, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
I stopped wearing my AF bling on CAP uniform because I was sick and tired of every joe blow who happened to be at the same region/wing conference with me demanding to know how/where/when/who of every award I had... So I stopped putting them on. I don't need Capt. AmericabecauseiminCAP demanding to see proof of my NDSM.
And that's kinda what I was getting at. It's a shame that because of overzealous people wanting to spot fakes, actual veterans can feel like it's too much trouble to take pride (in the modest way of wearing a ribbon) in their accomplishments in service to the nation. I understand your pain though- it's becoming not worth the hassle.
I guess that's why I'll give people the benefit of the doubt- it's just my perspective, but I'd rather let a faker slip by than unduly hassle those who actually served. The fakers usually sort themselves out over time.
If we applied the pre-wear substantiation requirements evenly then it wouldn't be considered a hassle for anyone.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
If we applied the pre-wear substantiation requirements evenly then it wouldn't be considered a hassle for anyone.
+1. I've had a question on someone, and instead of reaching out to them, I talked to their CoC to see if they had done the background.
At least for AD/RES/NG members of the AF a VMPF printout would substantiate what they are allowed to wear. I don't wear mine due to the cost involved.
I'm going to my first meeting in AF-style since I "un-retired" tonight. Short sleeve blues are customarily worn without ribbons, anyway. :)
Strangely, my Army rack is updated (even though I've been out of the Army 15+ years) with the KDSM. And yes, I have a DD-215 showing that. I only wear ribbons on my service coat, so that will have to wait. :)
I haven't worn military ribbons on my CAP uniform since I retired from the Navy in '89. Before that, my most recent CC was an AF E-8, and he did verify my awards when I rejoined.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2013, 06:13:23 PM
Quote from: UH60guy on July 25, 2013, 04:56:26 PMOut of curiosity, has anyone tried fake checking someone on active duty?
They'll have a CAC in their pocket and a commander you can call.
Yes. An Army E7 wearing a SEAL Trident. I called him on it and he ended up being a complete fraud. Spent about 15yrs in the Army, earned several promotions based on completely fake documents. He was dishonorably discharged as an E1. Ill see if I can find the article about him.