Is anyone doing any water survival training in CAP? For pilots flying over water it could prove helpfull. Also it would be a fun training for cadets. I was thinking of asking the Coast Gaurd Auxillary if they could teach us this.
we had them do it for us here. Good stuff.
For the record...the CGAux-Air crews have to attend a spatial disorientation and Water Survival course at the CG Air Training Center in Mobile, Al. before they can do ocean flights (might be a req'd for all aircrew, Im not sure)
Ummm, Desert Rat, what water you got? ??? ???
Quote from: Fifinella on March 14, 2007, 04:08:09 AM
Ummm, Desert Rat, what water you got? ??? ???
Lake Meade is pretty big!....and we could be called in to support SOCAL.
As far as a cadet activity Tx wing used to have the USAF survival dudes (and dudetes) do a basic water survival as an encampment activity. Pretty much review dithing instructions, survival gear, don LPU's into the pool then right and board the raft.
My cadet squadron iused to have a safety weekend where we woudl cover amonng other topics basic water rescue/safety. Pretty much how to read the water, safety issues and concerns, PFD wear and throw badg use.
mk
Quote from: lordmonar on March 14, 2007, 05:04:04 AM
Quote from: Fifinella on March 14, 2007, 04:08:09 AM
Ummm, Desert Rat, what water you got? ??? ???
Lake Meade is pretty big!....and we could be called in to support SOCAL.
Ok.
Quote from: desert rat on March 13, 2007, 07:03:19 PM
Is anyone doing any water survival training in CAP? For pilots flying over water it could prove helpfull. Also it would be a fun training for cadets. I was thinking of asking the Coast Gaurd Auxillary if they could teach us this.
I recently did military water survival training with two other CAP officers. It was an actual military course, and it was extremely worthwhile.
While, CAP doesn't fly over water... too far... it was good training in helping you realize while how simple most survival gear is... it's also just as simple to use it incorrectly.
You know both water and wilderness survival training would be (in my honest, yet not so very frequently flying for CAP way of thinking) a wonderful thing for aircrews to at least do once, let alone some kind of 24 month type of refresher requirement (sort of like military type flyers), for example in the new draft 60-3 for PAWG they even identify the wing ranger dude (I think coordinator/asst ops director is the title) as providing for aircrew survival training as one of the RNGR programs responsibilites.
I remember a helo crash that happened a couple of years ago ....Paramedic and Pilot were found strapped in and obvioulsy DOA in the water.....flight RN was found 12 hours later in the bay.....without his helmet and without boots...he was an ex PJ....(cause was result of head/internal injuries) but it would appear he survived the impact and his survival training seems to have kicked in to at least get him out of the a/c ....
even with that example I would be willing to bet either program (water or ground) would not see a single or at least any noticible effort on any CAP aircrew personnel's part...great training, might even be that little edge that could keep you alive.
mk
Quote from: lordmonar on March 14, 2007, 05:04:04 AM
Quote from: Fifinella on March 14, 2007, 04:08:09 AM
Ummm, Desert Rat, what water you got? ??? ???
Lake Meade is pretty big!....and we could be called in to support SOCAL.
And the North has Lake Tahoe.
And there are hidden ponds around Southern Nevada, and then flash floods in the desert.
I teach this for the Navy. I can not offer or promise anything, but, just a thought. If National would come up with requirements for a course, sort of saying what they want to be taught, and submit it through the Air Force, the Physiology Squadrons may be able to do it. I know that in CA our pilots go to Beale AFB for hypoxia training.
The Navy does this training for EMS companies. Maybe there is an avenue through the Dept of Homeland Security that might get CAP in the door. Again, this would have to a formal request through USAF to the Naval Survival Training Institute in Pensacola, FL -- which, incidentally, trains USAF aircrews in water survival.
If you are close to an Active duty, Reserve, or Guard facility; make contact with the folks in Life Support. Work through your SD or your local CAP-USAF/CAPRAP folks to put a program together. Think about making it a Group or Wing level activity (get more crewmwmbers that way!)
When I was on flying status we always looked forward to playing in the water!! We usually turned it into a picnic for the squadron.
TSgt Jim Laning
CAP-USAF Det 5
w/ attachment to the KSWG
Resuscitating an old topic... Is there anywhere a criteria for what constitutes the "classroom training" and "pool test" for the Overwater Survival specialty qualification SQTRs? I'd like to start training folks formally in this, but what to train?
P.S. The 15th AW does aircrew water training down at the beach routinely, I want to get together with them for it, but I want it to meet the CAP's criteria.
Thanks!
Quote from: lordmonar on March 14, 2007, 05:04:04 AMLake Meade is pretty big!....and we could be called in to support SOCAL.
..and getting smaller apparently ;-)
"ENERGY: Hoover Dam could stop generating electricity as soon as 2013, officials fear"
(DROPPING WATER LEVELS IMPERIL POWER FLOWING TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA)
http://www.nctimes.com/business/article_b7e44e9e-087d-53b2-9c49-7ea32262c9a9.html (http://www.nctimes.com/business/article_b7e44e9e-087d-53b2-9c49-7ea32262c9a9.html)
Quote from: desert rat on March 13, 2007, 07:03:19 PM
Is anyone doing any water survival training in CAP? For pilots flying over water it could prove helpfull. Also it would be a fun training for cadets. I was thinking of asking the Coast Gaurd Auxillary if they could teach us this.
Well if you have the time and money to hop down here to Group 3 Florida (St. Pete/ Clearwater), we have a partnership with the U.S. Coast Guard in which they lend us an instructor, their pool, and a classroom to do all the water survival training we need, given that they are not to busy.
There is a water survival class from national. If you PM me I will send you the email of the instructor for my class. I am sure he can tell you who is available to teach it in your area.
National is in the process of revamping the water survival course. It will become the national CAP standard when it is complete. It includes both classroom and practical in the pool, as well as practical in the airframe (on the ground)
Quote from: TFO Ford on September 13, 2010, 10:31:59 AM
Well if you have the time and money to hop down here to Group 3 Florida (St. Pete/ Clearwater), we have a partnership with the U.S. Coast Guard in which they lend us an instructor, their pool, and a classroom to do all the water survival training we need, given that they are not to busy.
Thanks, but we couldn't be much further away from you - Hawaii.
Quote from: Robborsari on September 13, 2010, 01:37:11 PM
There is a water survival class from national. If you PM me I will send you the email of the instructor for my class. I am sure he can tell you who is available to teach it in your area.
Love to hear about it. PM sent.
NAS Lemoore in Central CA does our underwater egress training for the Sheriffs Department. I dont know if they would do CAP or not. Ill ask, Ill be out there on Wed. Maybe those near Air Stations could put a call into the Aviation Survival Institute at that base. The only kicker is that they require you to pass a full military flight physical done by a flight surgeon. Eyes, ears, EKG, blood, the works.
The issue with other military water survival training is that your taught using military equipment , not the civilian equipment we use. You also learn in a C-130 or H-60 dunk tank....not the same as a Cessna 182...
The military course is good, but you still need the CAP specifics.
The Cadet Survival School ( Formerly in CAWG) has several days of Water Survival for Cadets. It does not include aircraft egress. The College is funny about dropping airplanes in the school pool....
Major Lord
For what it's worth, I use my work training for currency on this. We and AFFTC crew have to do it every 5 years. One of the most fun non-flight days I've gotten paid for 8)
Finished Aircrew Egress at Lemoore NAS today. The staff at ACST was great. I did 8 rides total. 3 blacked out. We only had 3 qual rides but I went back and rode with the re-treds who kept swimming out of the BIG hole in the back. I did 3 rides in the pilot seat which were fun. I wasnt a re-tred. I could have stayed there all day if they let me. They gave us the qual letters and a cert. for 2nd Class swimmer. Yeah, not a big deal, but they didnt have to.
I thought I would be a smartass and leave my seat belt off on one ride. I started in the very back and ended up in the front before the violent motion had ended. Still fun. No photos though....we all forgot our cameras. We are going to put together a nice unit plaque with a set of wings, a unit patch, with a thank you letter from the Sheriff. Maybe it will end up on the wall on the quarter deck......or over the toilet in the head.
As far as CAP specifics, it doesnt matter. The training is not focused on specific airframes. Your wearing more gear than ANY CAP pilot would ever wear, and your not using it, your learning to swim with it and drown proof. The hatches are not military hatches specific to a C130, HH60 or a C-182. Its more about learning to slow down and think while your strapped into a tube filling with water upside down. And how to survive once you are out and in the water with boots and survival gear taking on water weight. Unfortunately a No-Go on CAP members. At least at Lemoore.
Great day though.
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 15, 2010, 10:05:20 PM
Finished Aircrew Egress at Lemoore NAS today....
.....Unfortunately a No-Go on CAP members. At least at Lemoore.
:'(
Glad you had a good time and survived with or without the belt. :clap:
Quote from: CommGeek on September 14, 2010, 11:42:41 AM
The issue with other military water survival training is that your taught using military equipment , not the civilian equipment we use. You also learn in a C-130 or H-60 dunk tank....not the same as a Cessna 182...
The military course is good, but you still need the CAP specifics.
The AF folks here do it in the ocean, and it's primarily getting tossed in the water wearing all your gear, and surviving that, plus inflating and entering a raft.
If anyone could define what the CAP specifics actually are, that would be great!
I asked this question through KB and was sent a DVD by Mr. Desmarais. There definitely is a CAP curriculum for Water Survival, it is based on viewing the videos as well as practice in the pool. In my experience there are few members currently qualified to oversee this training (to ensure it was carried out IAW CAP standards), at least in TX.
I know this because I organized WS training earlier this year for my squadron/ group at a local company that provides this type of training for the oil industry. (We are lucky like that here in TX) We had an awesome experience and the instructors were totally into making the training as specific for us as they could, even to the point of coming out during a SAREX to get hands familiarity with a C172 to make sure they were giving the best info possible. Must the simulator be a C172/182 airframe? No. Like was posted above, learning how to keep your head and follow the steps is the most important aspect. It could even help you in your car one day if you find yourself floating where one should not. Best news? The company did it for free, because they believed in CAP and what we do (after a lot of explanation and persuasion from yours truly). Hopefully our write up of the training will appear in either Wings Over TX or Volunteer Now soon.
If you are fortunate enough to be in an area with a private company that provides this type of training, reach out to then and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised. They do get to write it off on their taxes, so there is some win for them as well. For anybody in LA WG interested, I know this company also has a site there. PM me for contact info if interested.
Many of the airlines offered water survival training to CAP. Eastern Airlines when it was in business ran a Stewardess training program which included water survival. Delta Airlines also offered water survival training. Maybe Ned Lee or someone at National or Regional level can see if any airlines would still be interested in offering the training.