I'm pretty stuck on David Clark models, but am struggling to compare the H10-60 versus the more entry-level set. I like noise reduction, but not so much that I feel separated from the airplane.
Anyone here a David Clark user with a strong opinion?
It's kinda funny. For many years I never used anything more than a Marv Golden special. The first time I tried on an ANR type, I actually felt like I was going to miss something important. Like engine noise that I wanted to hear. That I should hear... if it were to happen, kinda thing. It just felt weird.
I ended up not getting the ANR, and this was after a two week trial while blowing 40 hours on a 172 ride over several states, going to air museums.
As a long time David Clark user, I decided to buy the Bose after I got my CFI. At first I was afraid of not being able to hear the engine and RPM changes, but I can say that you can still hear the engine and hear RPM changes. It just takes a little to get used to.
If you plan on doing a lot of flying, I highly recommend a ANR headset. If you like David Clark, the H10-13X is a decent ANR.
In the end its what you like, and obviously what you can afford. YMMV
http://www.sigtronics.com/air/s20.html (http://www.sigtronics.com/air/s20.html)
$144 brand new. Works just like $1000 headset. You can both talk and hear! ;)
I've managed over 15,000 hours without wasting money on expensive headsets.
David Clark are fine for a durable GA passive headset, but their ANR does not have a very good reputation.
If you want ANR on a budget get an ASA HS-1A (a headset I also like as a passive headset), add gel seals and pillow pad for comfort and a good ear seal, then replace the electronics with an ANR upgrade kit from anr-headsets.com... total cost of about $300-350.
With money, you cannot go wrong with Bose A20 or Lightspeed Zulu. But that's a $900-1,100 investment. Another excellent option (even used by airline pilots) is to use the Bose QC15 which is actually an ANR music headphone and you add the UFlyMike which turns it into an aviation headset, total cost of about $550-600.
If you want to consider something totally different, look at the Clarity Aloft. With foam seals most users say they find them more comfortable and quieter than ANR, it's lightweight and simple.
Thanks, everyone!
I think I'm going to stick with the passive for now. I can get a lot of PNR quality for $350 or so...and I think I might test-fly the Clarity Aloft just for grins. Definitely heard a lot of good things about them.
I have a set of David Clark X11s that I picked up about 7 years ago. I love them to death. Very lightweight, good ANR, and they don't squeeze my head.
That last part is probably the most important and beneficial thing I have noticed.
I have used the Sig Tronics before, not bad, for the price. I normally use whatever comes in the Plane, or the pilots extra set.
Quote from: ProdigalJim on January 17, 2013, 11:10:35 PM
Thanks, everyone!
I think I'm going to stick with the passive for now. I can get a lot of PNR quality for $350 or so
There is no such thing as "passive noise reduction." It's ATTENUATION.
You can buy used ANR cans for well below that price, and once you fly with ANR you will never want to go back to attenuation. With attenuation, you have to crank up the radio/ICS volume to overcome the noise that gets through. With ANR, you aren't fighting the outside noise so can turn down the audio.
Check searchtempest -- it looks at craigslist sites all around your area and also checks ebay.
Quote from: Buzz on January 18, 2013, 06:30:54 PM
There is no such thing as "passive noise reduction." It's ATTENUATION.
Semantics. Attenuate is a fancier way to say reduce.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 18, 2013, 08:52:42 PM
Quote from: Buzz on January 18, 2013, 06:30:54 PM
There is no such thing as "passive noise reduction." It's ATTENUATION.
Semantics. Attenuate is a fancier way to say reduce.
Yes, but in this context, "reduction" has a specific definition which doesn't fit passive headphones. The audiology industry makes a distinction between reduction and attenuation. I will follow the experts' terminology.
After all, "airplane" fits both fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, but few of us would consider it "semantics" to call a C150 an "airplane" but a Huey a "helicopter." ;)
Quote from: ProdigalJim on January 17, 2013, 11:10:35 PM
Thanks, everyone!
I think I'm going to stick with the passive for now. I can get a lot of PNR quality for $350 or so...and I think I might test-fly the Clarity Aloft just for grins. Definitely heard a lot of good things about them.
The Clarity Aloft is super light, I bought a set for my wife :angel:
ProdigalJim, while there is no doubt that passive will suffice, few people who have used ANR headsets for a while will argue that they are not significantly better in areas that matter, like hearing ATC 100% of the time, damage to one's hearing and fatigue.
But there are lots of choices out there. It is a minefield and everyone has an opinion.
In my view, the best way to figure it out for yourself is to take advantage of the money back guarantee offered by some vendors.
A quick Google search shows Senheiser, Lightspeed and David Clark have such offers. I did not look into Bose, but you should, as most ANRs are commonly compared to these.
To test them, plan a long, low stress, solo cross country in good weather and away from the crowds. Take your passives and the ANRs on trial. Depart with your passives. Once you get out of town and into cruise, try a few different pairs. It's like trying a bed. At first, they all seem similar. You need to give it more than a few minutes. Then go to a quiet towered strip where you can do some full stop pattern work. There you will get to see the performance in a maximum noise environment, with some radio calls to the tower and where you are busy. Sometimes the differences are not obvious in cruise flight. Also, put your glasses on. Depending on the glasses and headset, this can make a significant difference to the comfort and noise reduction. I actually fly with my glasses over the top of the ear protectors. I don't know of anyone else that does that. It looks ridiculous, but gives me a 100% seal for noise, especially with gel, which really sits flush against the skin.
I went through this process with a friend who flew his A36 for 20 years with ear plugs and a hand mic. My first flight with him was interesting as I had nowhere into which to plug my earphone jack. Anyway, when he refurbished the plane last year, it was time for him to come out of the dark ages. In the end, he chose the Zulu over the Bose, but that was purely a personal choice. I should also add that his flying has improved now that he can hear ATC more than 80% of the time. It made me feel better as well.
Personally, I own three different brands of ANR headsets. David Clark, Lightspeed and Flightcom. I have also worn the Zulus and Bose X in flight. As I said above, the choice it personal. Trying them on in the shop is not a good indication. But they will all do the noise reduction job to a given level. Comfort is clearly a factor and they will all fit most heads, unless you have a peanut, a watermelon or Dr. Spock ears. As I mentioned, I use the gel on the set that I wear and to me this does help. But it may not be for everyone.
As for price, I can't comment on the cheapies as I have never bought them. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't. We've all worn the old passive flight school headsets, but that isn't a fair comparison. If someone asked me to try a $300 set of ANRs against my DCs, I would give it a shot. I have bought all my aviation headsets off Craigslist and eBay at around 2/3rds the new price. Some brands command more of a premium. I think I paid a bit more for my regular ANR Bose 15 (Commercial passenger flight) headsets, but since they didn't have the triple price cost of pilot gear and I was doing the long haul to Australia every 3 months, I kind of justified the premium, just like flight instructors can.
Good luck.
I've flown with a DC H10-60 Passive for 10 years and it's done well by me. 10 years ago ANR was a much newer system in headsets and at the time I was leary of the reliability with the added compexity of the system with the added cost and a need for a battery. Actually used an ANR briefly when I was flying with a buddy a while back but I guess I didn't really give it a lot of time to test. To me a good quality passive will do fine for most of us.
My 2 cents
Huh? Say again?
:-)
Now see, that's the trouble with CAPTalk. I thought I'd made up my mind, and then Simon comes along and gives me a testing protocol... ;D
I think the extensive testing is really going to be the only way to go; besides, it suits my personality.
I have flown with Simon and he is usually quite reliable and makes good judgements. Ergo, his headset guidance is very likely to be solid.
But, like he says, headsets are a personal item and you Mileage May Vary.
Best day of my headset life was when I went from David Clark head clampers to Bose. Second best day was when I when from the Bose Aviation-X to the Bose A20.
Fantastic headset but expensive!
I have had a Bose X for four or five years: before that a Lightspeed 20. The increase in noise attenuation going from the Lightspeed to the Bose is enough to make you jump out of the airplane: I wouldn't get in any airplane without my Bose.
Some people whine about the David Clark "clampers", but the bloody things work.
Wore them for over 28 years in the Air Force/Air National Guard.
They protected my hearing very well as in no hearing loss.
And this was in EC/KC-135's and C-141's. Not exactly the quietest machines out there.
Quote from: PHall on February 12, 2013, 03:57:12 AM
Some people whine about the David Clark "clampers", but the bloody things work.
Wore them for over 28 years in the Air Force/Air National Guard.
They protected my hearing very well as in no hearing loss.
And this was in EC/KC-135's and C-141's. Not exactly the quietest machines out there.
Thats fine and all, but how well did they work back when you were turning wrenching on the B17s? >:D
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 12, 2013, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: PHall on February 12, 2013, 03:57:12 AM
Some people whine about the David Clark "clampers", but the bloody things work.
Wore them for over 28 years in the Air Force/Air National Guard.
They protected my hearing very well as in no hearing loss.
And this was in EC/KC-135's and C-141's. Not exactly the quietest machines out there.
Thats fine and all, but how well did they work back when you were turning wrenching on the B17s? >:D
Hey Rob, the 135's are still flyin'. >:D >:D