Here's a nice article on how we're helping D.C.'s 121st Fighter Squadron stay sharp with intercept missions:
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2012/December%202012/1212defenders.aspx (http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2012/December%202012/1212defenders.aspx)
What a job, for both the 121st and for the CAP birds.
Calling D.C. "target rich" is like saying Chuck Yeager is "a pretty fair pilot."
I wonder, given the limited number of airframes the AF ended up with, why the D.C. ANG didn't have first-priority on the F-22.
I've also wondered at times (and this is from someone who was ANG) why the fighter mission is mostly with the Guard and not with the Reserve. After all, what does a State Governor need with a wing of F-16's? C-130's or C-27J's would seem to suit the dual State/Federal status better, and the AFRES could take the air defence mission.
OK, can of worms opened, so I'll close by popping a salute to both the ANG and CAP personnel. :clap:
Quote from: CyBorg on December 12, 2012, 05:33:25 AM
What a job, for both the 121st and for the CAP birds.
Calling D.C. "target rich" is like saying Chuck Yeager is "a pretty fair pilot."
I wonder, given the limited number of airframes the AF ended up with, why the D.C. ANG didn't have first-priority on the F-22.
I've also wondered at times (and this is from someone who was ANG) why the fighter mission is mostly with the Guard and not with the Reserve. After all, what does a State Governor need with a wing of F-16's? C-130's or C-27J's would seem to suit the dual State/Federal status better, and the AFRES could take the air defence mission.
OK, can of worms opened, so I'll close by popping a salute to both the ANG and CAP personnel. :clap:
Fighters get more money...then cargo aircraft.
CyBorg, fighters have more prestiege then a C-130. Even though the C-130 is more useful in case of a disaster.
That's why there are fighters in The Air Guard...
Of course there's always the question, why is there both an Air National Guard and an Air Force Reserve?
Quote from: PHall on December 12, 2012, 06:30:04 AM
CyBorg, fighters have more prestiege then a C-130. Even though the C-130 is more useful in case of a disaster.
That's why there are fighters in The Air Guard...
Of course there's always the question, why is there both an Air National Guard and an Air Force Reserve?
Yes.
I had a supervisor whose last posting before retirement was the Pentagon in the NGB.
He asked the same question, and said that one of his biggest headaches was dealing with state governors/adjutants general who were trying to outdo one another to get the latest gee-whiz (at that time) F-15's and F-16's.
I think there is a valid reason to have an Air National Guard; like I said, make it much more transport-orientated.
C-130's, C-27J's, HH-60's could all be used in their State role (disaster relief, rescue - directed by CAP birds, of course ;D), to provide transport for the ArNG, and to be a force multiplier for the AF with considerable airlift capability.
I am glad that we don't have a formal State role, other than as-needed to support Guard operations, ES, etc., based on the stories my former supervisor told me. I wouldn't like the infighting (beyond what already exists, unfortunately) between states/Wings as to who gets the latest gosh-wow stuff with glass cockpits and who gets decades-old 172's.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 12, 2012, 05:33:25 AM
...I've also wondered at times (and this is from someone who was ANG) why the fighter mission is mostly with the Guard and not with the Reserve. After all, what does a State Governor need with a wing of F-16's? C-130's or C-27J's would seem to suit the dual State/Federal status better, and the AFRES could take the air defence mission.
...
I believe the reason is for much the same reason that the combat arms/maneuver units (Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Attack Helicopter, etc) are in the Army National Guard while the Army Reserve is predominantly combat support/combat service support units.
Following the Viet Nam War, a conscious decision was made to make it more difficult for a president to commit forces to a battle. In the current situation, in order to go to war a substantial mobilization of Title 32 assets is required, the theory being that committment of Title 32 troops will require more public support than committing Title 10 Reserve forces.
^^Good arguments, Colonel, and well taken.
However, even before 'Nam, I think the extant situation of most combat arms/fighter units being in the ArNG/ANG was still the case. I don't think many of the non-AD Fighter Interceptor Squadrons/Fighter Bomber Squadrons belonged to the AFRES; I think they were overwhelmingly ANG (F-84's, F-86's). A big chunk of the Troop Carrier Squadrons (C-119's) did belong to the Air Force Reserve, as did a lot of the Air Refuelling birds.
I don't know the ratio of Reserve to Guard troops (Army and Air) deployed to 'Nam. However, the ones that I do know about were Guard. Kansas and Colorado deployed F-100's to direct combat and I believe DC was called to FAD as a training unit for F-100 pilots.
On the Army side, a Ranger unit from the Indiana National Guard went to Vietnam.
My dad was Army Guard back in the '50s and he was infantry.
Getting back to CAP, I think it would be more efficient for all concerned if something like the Continental Air Command were re-established as a "holding command" for all ANG, AFRES and CAP units. It might encourage more direct support by CAP to Air Force units like the DCANG that the article refers to.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on December 12, 2012, 02:41:56 PM
I believe the reason is for much the same reason that the combat arms/maneuver units (Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Attack Helicopter, etc) are in the Army National Guard while the Army Reserve is predominantly combat support/combat service support units.
Following the Viet Nam War, a conscious decision was made to make it more difficult for a president to commit forces to a battle. In the current situation, in order to go to war a substantial mobilization of Title 32 assets is required, the theory being that committment of Title 32 troops will require more public support than committing Title 10 Reserve forces.
A more pragmatic view is that Pentagon gets some rather high-profile advocates and lobbyists for high priority and resource-intensive units by putting them in the Guard.
Governors and state legislators will lobby their DC counterparts far more aggressively to support and retain their gee-whiz fighter units and infantry outfits than they would for the ARNG's 222nd Messkit Repair Battalion.
IOW, politics and money are not an insubstantial part of force structure planning. And have been since the Continental Congress.
Ned
Retired Guard Guy
Didn't Barry Goldwater use an AZANG F-86 as his official airplane while he was governor?
Quote from: ol'fido on December 13, 2012, 12:19:28 AM
Didn't Barry Goldwater use an AZANG F-86 as his official airplane while he was governor?
Probably not, since the equipment (i.e. airplanes) don't belong to the state, they belong to the Feds.
The state provides and owns the facilities. The Feds provide the equipment.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 12, 2012, 05:33:25 AM
I've also wondered at times (and this is from someone who was ANG) why the fighter mission is mostly with the Guard and not with the Reserve. After all, what does a State Governor need with a wing of F-16's? C-130's or C-27J's would seem to suit the dual State/Federal status better, and the AFRES could take the air defence mission.
You never know when them Yankees will start another war of northern aggression to try and trample states rights...
Quote from: Al Sayre on December 13, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
You never know when them Yankees will start another war of northern aggression to try and trample states rights...
So Lu'sianna's F-15's and Texies' F-16's need to defend their hallowed soil agin' them scalawag A-10's from I-dee-hoo, Missheeegun and Indianer. Jess y'all thank God that Kansus hain't got them Beee-One's no more.
Yup, I got it.
(Note: Southern accent needling is meant to be affectionate...my maternal grandparents were from Kentucky and Tennessee, so the blood of the South flows through this frozen Northern boy's veins).
Quote from: Al Sayre on December 13, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: CyBorg on December 12, 2012, 05:33:25 AM
I've also wondered at times (and this is from someone who was ANG) why the fighter mission is mostly with the Guard and not with the Reserve. After all, what does a State Governor need with a wing of F-16's? C-130's or C-27J's would seem to suit the dual State/Federal status better, and the AFRES could take the air defence mission.
You never know when them Yankees will start another war of northern aggression to try and trample states rights...
Why do you speak of this in the future, rather than the present, tense??? >:D
Quote from: CyBorg on December 13, 2012, 09:01:38 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on December 13, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
You never know when them Yankees will start another war of northern aggression to try and trample states rights...
So Lu'sianna's F-15's and Texies' F-16's need to defend their hallowed soil agin' them scalawag A-10's from I-dee-hoo, Missheeegun and Indianer. Jess y'all thank God that Kansus hain't got them Beee-One's no more.
Yup, I got it.
(Note: Southern accent needling is meant to be affectionate...my maternal grandparents were from Kentucky and Tennessee, so the blood of the South flows through this frozen Northern boy's veins).
The unit that had the B1's is now an Intelligence Wing.
They're probably reading your emails and gassing up the nondescript white van for you now...
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on December 14, 2012, 01:22:43 AM
The unit that had the B1's is now an Intelligence Wing.
They're probably reading your emails and gassing up the nondescript white van for you now...
And before that a large F-16 training wing, previously with F-4's and F-105's. It must have been gutting for those fighter jocks to go to flying bombers and then not flying at all after so many years of teaching fighter tactics under that wide-open Kansas sky.
I'm not too worried about the white van. I'm already certifiably loony enough it would probably scare
them. 8) :o
Quote from: CyBorg on December 13, 2012, 09:01:38 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on December 13, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
You never know when them Yankees will start another war of northern aggression to try and trample states rights...
(Note: Southern accent needling is meant to be affectionate...my maternal grandparents were from Kentucky and Tennessee, so the blood of the South flows through this frozen Northern boy's veins).
If they're from Kentucky or Tennessee, It's Bourbon or Whiskey thats flowing through your veins
Quote from: PHall on December 13, 2012, 01:12:19 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on December 13, 2012, 12:19:28 AM
Didn't Barry Goldwater use an AZANG F-86 as his official airplane while he was governor?
Probably not, since the equipment (i.e. airplanes) don't belong to the state, they belong to the Feds.
The state provides and owns the facilities. The Feds provide the equipment.
I don't think that would have mattered to Barry. He was a LtCol in the USAAF, a Col in the ANG, and a MG in the USAFR. I imagine if he wanted to check out an F-86 for a training hop to an official function, he would.
I've flown on those FK missions. They are a blast, especially when riding target.