At my squadron a senior member recently ask me how to process a senior promotion, I responded I do not know, you are not a cadet. The CDS nor the CC know how, they say you must initiate the promotion in e-services and then they will approve it. My last promotion was on paper so I truly do not know how the promotion is initiated. Does any one out there know? ???
You should have a personnel or admin officer available for it if not refer to CAPR35-5.
If you don't have a Personnel Officer, refer him to the DCS or the PDO.
The deputy commander for seniors said in in some sort of way I should know the process. We do not have a PDO, we really have a non existing senior program. There are more cadets than seniors, and its kind of that we got what we got and we need no more with the senior program. I try to help because those that want to advance because we do need a stronger program.
I'm not sure of your position in the squadron. The appropriate person should reach out to Group / Wing for guidance. That's why they are there, to support the squadrons.
I am the deputy commander of cadets, and thanks I will contact group
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 03:12:10 AM
I am the deputy commander of cadets, and thanks I will contact group.
Why don't you ask your commander?
With no personal insult intended, this highlights a serious deficiency in CAP - we have members who are assuming leadership roles who
do not have even a basic understanding of how a unit functions.
The KB is also a good source for these types of questions:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion)
If you aren't the Personnel Officer, Professional Development Officer, or something similar, I'm not sure that you should *need* to know the process. If everyone knew how to do everyone's jobs, they could just be their own unit.
But, in case you are wondering, there is a module in e-services that has a "promotion" link inside. You just type the person's name into the search box. When the person comes up, there is a check list of required stuff that shows if they're eligible. Just put the date in the effective date and hit "submit." It's then routed for approval.
If it's a special appointment of some kind, it's still done on paper.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 20, 2012, 04:46:42 AM
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 03:12:10 AM
I am the deputy commander of cadets, and thanks I will contact group.
Why don't you ask your commander?
With no personal insult intended, this highlights a serious deficiency in CAP - we have members who are assuming leadership roles who
do not have even a basic understanding of how a unit functions.
The KB is also a good source for these types of questions:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion)
I don't think the suggestion was to ask the Group Commander, but to ask the group PDO or Personnel Officer for guidance in a "job specialty" line of communication, like a CPO asking the Group CPO how to do something.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 20, 2012, 04:46:42 AM
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 03:12:10 AM
I am the deputy commander of cadets, and thanks I will contact group.
Why don't you ask your commander?
With no personal insult intended, this highlights a serious deficiency in CAP - we have members who are assuming leadership roles who
do not have even a basic understanding of how a unit functions.
The KB is also a good source for these types of questions:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/961/kw/online%20promotion)
The problem is I have asked the commander he does not know and dumped the problem on me, stating it is not his job as commander. He reffered my to the deputy commander of seniors who said I should know, that it was not his job. So pretty much the two leaders of our senior program have now knowledge nor want to gain knowledge.
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 05:10:57 AM
The problem is I have asked the commander he does not know and dumped the problem on me, stating it is not his job as commander.
Actually, If nobody else is doing it then it is his responsibility to make sure that these things get done. If he doesn't know how to do it then he should ask Group or wing instead of ignoring the issue.
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 05:10:57 AM
The problem is I have asked the commander he does not know and dumped the problem on me, stating it is not his job as commander. He reffered my to the deputy commander of seniors who said I should know, that it was not his job. So pretty much the two leaders of our senior program have now knowledge nor want to gain knowledge.
Outstanding. A Unit CC who has no idea how to process a promotion.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 20, 2012, 05:14:48 AM
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 05:10:57 AM
The problem is I have asked the commander he does not know and dumped the problem on me, stating it is not his job as commander.
Actually, If nobody else is doing it then it is his responsibility to make sure that these things get done. If he doesn't know how to do it then he should ask Group or wing instead of ignoring the issue.
That is what I would think too, but he refuses and tells me to do it, we have been going around and around on this one for a few weeks.
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 05:34:05 AMThat is what I would think too, but he refuses and tells me to do it, we have been going around and around on this one for a few weeks.
It sounds like its time for someone to get off the ride.
As CDC, you do not have access to the senior promotions module. The CC, CDS, PDO, and, IIRC, Personnel and/or Admin do.
Quote from: arajca on November 20, 2012, 05:44:11 AM
As CDC, you do not have access to the senior promotions module. The CC, CDS, PDO, and, IIRC, Personnel and/or Admin do.
A good point we missed - a CDC isn't involved in Senior promotions.
From all previous topics it seems that the CDS thinks he's above the CDC in a unit of 5 SMs, yet does not think he should have to do anything beyond getting recognition...man I'd love to be in that unit...
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 12:47:30 AM
At my squadron a senior member recently ask me how to process a senior promotion, I responded I do not know, you are not a cadet. The CDS nor the CC know how, they say you must initiate the promotion in e-services and then they will approve it. My last promotion was on paper so I truly do not know how the promotion is initiated. Does any one out there know? ???
Why don't you know? It's part of your Level One orientation. Certainly you should refer this individual to the professional development officer, deputy commander for seniors or the personnel officer, but you should have a basic understanding on what needs to happen in order to mentor your fellow senior members.
We are all volunteers and a promotion for a qualified individual is about the only real way to recognize someone or keep them motiviated to renew. More often than not, I've run into 'career second lieutenants.' Certainly some are there by choice, but so many of them, for what ever reason, are not told how to progress and that's sad.
Quote from: flyboy1 on November 20, 2012, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: okeecap on November 20, 2012, 12:47:30 AM
At my squadron a senior member recently ask me how to process a senior promotion, I responded I do not know, you are not a cadet. The CDS nor the CC know how, they say you must initiate the promotion in e-services and then they will approve it. My last promotion was on paper so I truly do not know how the promotion is initiated. Does any one out there know? ???
Why don't you know? It's part of your Level One orientation. Certainly you should refer this individual to the professional development officer, deputy commander for seniors or the personnel officer, but you should have a basic understanding on what needs to happen in order to mentor your fellow senior members.
We are all volunteers and a promotion for a qualified individual is about the only real way to recognize someone or keep them motiviated to renew. More often than not, I've run into 'career second lieutenants.' Certainly some are there by choice, but so many of them, for what ever reason, are not told how to progress and that's sad.
No, it's not. Restricted eServices applications are not discussed in Level One.
I think OBC is the first real exposure to regs at large.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 20, 2012, 03:45:08 PM
I think OBC is the first real exposure to regs at large.
There's also SLS, CLC, UCC (which
should be required for command). An SLS before your first promotion isn't unreasonable,
and in the first year should probably be an expectation.
If you're "ready" got OBC, you should probably already have at least SLS done.
This brings us back to the need for more people - so we have actual names on the flow chart instead of a circle, and pressing those who
take the jobs to either already be trained, or commit to training in the respective specialty. This is also why people should serve as assistance
before getting the full job, as an internship or training period.
However in this situation it really sounds like there's a lot more going on in the background then what is written on the page. If
I was in a position of authority or influence in this situation I'd probably make a wholesale change based on the poor attitudes, and if I was
a new staffer and got this much BS from people who are supposed to be "leaders" and "mentors", I'd probably just walk. Just what we've seen
here in the last week is unacceptable, let alone the drama most likely being played out in person.
This is obviously a dysfunctional unit, and the OP deserves lots of credit for wanting to make improvements.
Asking the next highest echelon for guidance is probably the only way this issue is going to be resolved. Be open and diplomatic with the CC that you're asking for help, and be honest with Group as to your situation.
I see issues come to Wing that are allowed to fester for months at the squadron level until someone finally picks up the phone and asks for help.
As the CDC you don't have access to the Senior Member Promotions or Professional Development module. Submit the promotion request on paper CAPF2. If the Commander isn't happy with that, you tell him that you don't have the permissions in eServices to effect the request. It's the Personnel Officer, CDS or the CC job to make eServices electronic requests since you don't have the permissions for those roles.
From the applications page. There is a designation for duty assignments that just reads Deputy Commander (Not DCS or DCC) so there is a chance the DCS may not have these permissions either.
Duty Performance Promotions / Data-Entry / Personnel
Commander, Deputy Commander, Director of Personnel, Personnel Officer
When I was a Sq/CC part of my Level 1 conversation was on PD, and what you need to get promoted. I also advised new members to try to read at least 1 regulation a week (if they could keep from dying of boredom doing it). CAP is like anything else, "you can't play the game if you don't know the rules". You don't need to memorize the regulations, but you should be familiar enough with them to find the information when you need it...
SLS covers progression quite nicely. Really should be part of lvl1 though.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 20, 2012, 08:52:14 PM
SLS covers progression quite nicely. Really should be part of lvl1 though.
There's a lot of things that should be part of L1.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 20, 2012, 03:45:08 PM
I think OBC is the first real exposure to regs at large.
The regs are available online to everyone, not like in the old days when you had to purchase a subscription for $30. If someone has a question, LOOK IT UP!
Quote from: EMT-83 on November 20, 2012, 04:16:13 PM
This is obviously a dysfunctional unit, and the OP deserves lots of credit for wanting to make improvements.
Asking the next highest echelon for guidance is probably the only way this issue is going to be resolved. Be open and diplomatic with the CC that you're asking for help, and be honest with Group as to your situation.
I see issues come to Wing that are allowed to fester for months at the squadron level until someone finally picks up the phone and asks for help.
+1 great advice IMHO :clap:
BTW most members are in denial, but we have a lot of dysfunctional units.