We have a couple of older members (not in age) who have been in CAP for over 20 years. They are Colonels who have served as Wing Commanders. In eServices neither one of them have completed level 1 or any other level. Are they to start at level 1 and continue as usual? They also don't have CPPT, OPSEC or Intro to Safety. What do I need to have these members do.
...get their records from wherever they showed up? Are they members who resurfaced? If so, NHQ may have some records.
I had been in as a SM from 1993 to 2006, then had a break in service for 6 years. Eservices showed level 2 and 3 completion dates, but no level 1. I had to re-do it since so much had changed since I originally took it. It only takes a few hours or so, and since they were colonels, your CC should forward a request for reinstatement of grade up through the chain to region for sure, maybe national. Also, if they have a personnel jacket from their previous units or wings, that would go a long way to making this happen quickly and painlessly. Since they were colonels, I assume birds, and former Wing CCs National should have their records.
But yes, Level One has to be done unless someone can grant them a waiver, if one even exists and is possible.
If there is a break in service, I believe level one has to be redone in any instance.
If they were Wing CC's yet have no records, they must have had pretty substantial breaks.
Since they are already wearing eagles, PD probably doesn't mean much, beyond substantiating
that they were properly earned.
Beyond that, there's no way around them having to complete any and all required online tests.
Anytime there is a break longer than two years, Level 1 has to be redone. Break in 23 months or less, Level 1 does not has to be redone.
NHQ regs state that 1) members can ask for their records, and 2) units have to keep their old records for five years. However, some units do not, others seem like a repository or archives. Mine does!
The previous commander does not want me to get rid of these old records, my new commander does. I suggested discarding those records older than seven years, and he agreed. I am the Personnel and Admin Officer, so I can suggest policy on this.
So, the previous units - and their immediate headquarters - may have paperwork on them, but they have to have Level 1.
Take care,
Flyer
Keeping anything without historical value beyond the required retention period is apt to come up as a finding discrepancy on an SUI or CI.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 04, 2012, 01:58:50 AM
Keeping anything without historical value beyond the required retention period is apt to come up as a finding discrepancy on an SUI or CI.
haha...nice edit...someone is up to date on knowing their policies.
Not really.
Or not in all wings.
Otherwise it would have happened ten, fifteen times annually at least. I was a member of this unit ten years ago, went to another unit, left for five years, then came back one year ago. It has always been the same.
And this unit meets in a National Guard armory where Group had its office for ten or fifteen years...
Flyer
Historical Value is not defined, therefore it is what the commander deems it to be... ;D
Quote from: SARDOC on October 04, 2012, 02:03:25 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 04, 2012, 01:58:50 AM
Keeping anything without historical value beyond the required retention period is apt to come up as a finding discrepancy on an SUI or CI.
haha...nice edit...someone is up to date on knowing their policies.
I do what I can...
Quote from: flyer333555 on October 04, 2012, 02:04:40 AMAnd this unit meets in a National Guard armory where Group had its office for ten or fifteen years...
There's plenty of Group CC's who are clueless or apathetic about these kinds of things.
I agree it's basically the call of the CC, as long as they are marked as dead, etc., but I can't begin
to imagine why anyone would want to retain that stuff. If nothing else they should be scanned and shredded, then you have them but they take no space.
In fact, maybe that's where dead records should go - scanned as a single .PDF (to a defined standard),
and then copied to wing for archiving.
Sayre-
Exactly, and thank you.
By now, former squadron personnel are at Wing, Region, and other Group headquarters. The previous commander maintains they know we are like a depository, and so Wing has asked - several times - about member x, y, z, a, b, c, or d former service.
And we did keep our Group former records when they moved out as well.
When I was in this squadron six years ago, I was TDY at the Group level as Personnel and Admin Officer. When I returned to this squadron one year ago, I found files I created for the Group...
:P
Take care,
Flyer
The problem with that plan is the fact that it is the call of the sitting CC.
The first thing I did when I assumed command of a unit was dispose of all the old, unnecessary records, which was my call as a unit CC.
That's the risk - one day the CC says "pitch it" and doesn't even have to ask for permission. If wing wants it kept, they should keep it themselves. Why put the burden on a unit CC?
Well, the new squadron CC has already cleared the old Group records. He still wants me to get rid of all the Personnel files older than 7 years.
I have kept my own files. Two copies of my own Personnel records at home.
Flyer
Quote from: Eclipse on October 04, 2012, 01:44:18 AM
If they were Wing CC's yet have no records, they must have had pretty substantial breaks.
Since they are already wearing eagles, PD probably doesn't mean much, beyond substantiating
that they were properly earned.
Beyond that, there's no way around them having to complete any and all required online tests.
National won't reinstate the grade until the Level I is completed. So they shouldn't be wearing the eagles.
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 04, 2012, 03:01:51 AM
National won't reinstate the grade until the Level I is completed. So they shouldn't be wearing the eagles.
It's probably not a reinstatment.
I've seen more then a few olde school, very active members who never did, or never recorded a L1, CPPT, Safety, whatever, because it happened after they were well past the need.
They would routinely pop up on various reports, I'd whine about it, but they'd never fix things. It's only when NHQ started finally putting in logic that locked members out of F5's, etc., based on missing requirements that these things start to become important to the actual member.
What we know as Level I today did not exist before 1990.
When you say Colonel, full bird types. They do not have to be former Wing Commanders. CAP Veterans of WWII, because of their war time service get promoted to Colonel. We have one in our Wing who just came back into CAP and because of his CAP WWII service was appointed Colonel and he has not completed any PD Level training except L1.
Quote from: David Ellis on October 04, 2012, 01:20:36 AM
We have a couple of older members (not in age) who have been in CAP for over 20 years. They are Colonels who have served as Wing Commanders. In eServices neither one of them have completed level 1 or any other level. Are they to start at level 1 and continue as usual? They also don't have CPPT, OPSEC or Intro to Safety. What do I need to have these members do.
The individuals cited as shown in the original post were "older members (not in age), who have been in CAP for over 20 years. Not WWII veterans. as stated in the earlier post, if they have a two year break in service Level I is required before being reinstated to their previous grade.
Quote from: Private Investigator on October 04, 2012, 08:12:27 AM
What we know as Level I today did not exist before 1990.
When you say Colonel, full bird types. They do not have to be former Wing Commanders. CAP Veterans of WWII, because of their war time service get promoted to Colonel. We have one in our Wing who just came back into CAP and because of his CAP WWII service was appointed Colonel and he has not completed any PD Level training except L1.
Most, if not all of these are "honorary" appointments for people too old to actually need or care about level one or anything else in CAP for that matter.