Though you'll never hear about it in the news, 15 members of Long Island and New York City groups braved nearly impassable thicket , swamps, rivers,and thorn encrusted brush to search for Dr. Jerome Nadler, a missing 76 year old fisherman.
These volunteers joined Police, DEC, Parks, and 2 other volunteer groups to search for the gentleman who was found, alive on the 4th day of his ordeal.
I am proud to have been a part of this search and very proud of the members of my team who really put maximum effort into this.
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve)
Video shot during the search:
Missing portions. Please watch entire video
Civil Air Patrol Missing Person Search SAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GaogKdDWk#ws)
Job well done sir :clap:
Makes all the paperwork, uniform squabbles kind of insignificant doesn't it? Great job!
Quote from: MSgt Van on September 11, 2012, 01:33:46 AM
Makes all the paperwork, uniform squabbles kind of insignificant doesn't it? Great job!
8 years of what seemed to be a waste of time, culminated in 1 find.
Yes, it's worth it.
Cool video and awesome job! I have a pair of chest waders as part of my gear for that reason, though I'm sure you weren't planning ahead of time to go wading!
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 11, 2012, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: MSgt Van on September 11, 2012, 01:33:46 AM
Makes all the paperwork, uniform squabbles kind of insignificant doesn't it? Great job!
8 years of what seemed to be a waste of time, culminated in 1 find.
Yes, it's worth it.
According to your own posted reference http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve) it states that two police officers and their police dog found this gentleman, nothing mentioning about CAP at all.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 11, 2012, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: MSgt Van on September 11, 2012, 01:33:46 AM
Makes all the paperwork, uniform squabbles kind of insignificant doesn't it? Great job!
8 years of what seemed to be a waste of time, culminated in 1 find.
Yes, it's worth it.
According to your own posted reference http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve) it states that two police officers and their police dog found this gentleman, nothing mentioning about CAP at all.
RM
And?
Just because the news blurb does not mention CAP does not that we were not involved.
The OP even mentioned that CAP was not mentioned in any news breifs.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 11, 2012, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: MSgt Van on September 11, 2012, 01:33:46 AM
Makes all the paperwork, uniform squabbles kind of insignificant doesn't it? Great job!
8 years of what seemed to be a waste of time, culminated in 1 find.
Yes, it's worth it.
According to your own posted reference http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve) it states that two police officers and their police dog found this gentleman, nothing mentioning about CAP at all.
RM
Yep. CAP should have stayed at home as they were obviously ineffective and in the wrong area. ::)
There also appears to be some contention over who actually "rescued" the man.
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-many-searched-for-missing-doctor-1.3992944 (http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-many-searched-for-missing-doctor-1.3992944)
"I would like to clarify some assertions in "Doctor found in park" [News, Sept. 7]. While it is true that the police dog and his handlers found Dr. Jerome Nadler, it was a team of workers from Jones Beach State Park, who were only minutes away from searching the area where he was found, who brought him water, checked his vital signs, covered him with their jackets to keep him warm, and carried him out of the dense thicket.
This crew, along with the group from the Long Island Search and Rescue, the Single Trackers Search and Rescue, and the Civil Air Patrol, were combing every inch of Caleb Smith State Park Preserve.
Long Island's state Department of Environmental Conservation forest rangers drew up and instituted a search plan that was capable of finding a needle in a haystack. It was through the dedication and hard work of all these individuals and organizations that Nadler was found.
Steve Berner, Shoreham
Editor's note: The writer is a member of Single Trackers, an independent search and rescue group."
Clearly CAP was involved and had a positive impact on the search. Anyone with experience knows these searches are a huge team effort,
and every piece of the search puzzle is important, even the grids that come up negative.
SAR is a group activity.
The girds that CAP was searching was on less that the police dog and the other groups had to search.
Hence the option to award finds to everyone on the search on seach not just the crew/individual that performed the actual "eyes on target".
Quote from: lordmonar on September 12, 2012, 04:12:13 AM
SAR is a group activity.
The girds that CAP was searching was on less that the police dog and the other groups had to search.
Hence the option to award finds to everyone on the search on seach not just the crew/individual that performed the actual "eyes on target".
The Police dog "found" the guy. CAP didn't. Lets not cloud issues with typical CAP double speak. Granted the CAP teams should be lauded for their efforts in "searching for the missing man".
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 04:25:36 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on September 12, 2012, 04:12:13 AM
SAR is a group activity.
The girds that CAP was searching was on less that the police dog and the other groups had to search.
Hence the option to award finds to everyone on the search on seach not just the crew/individual that performed the actual "eyes on target".
The Police dog "found" the guy. CAP didn't. Lets not cloud issues with typical CAP double speak. Granted the CAP teams should be lauded for their efforts in "searching for the missing man".
RM
As far as I know....no one has ever said that CAP "found" the individual. They have only said that they participated in the search that was successfully completed with the search subject being found alive.
IT IS YOU (and other not too nice people) who are saying that we are overly tooting our own horn. Which is strange as the only thing I have heard about this search is here on CT. It is not even CAP news.
So....please take your double speak and keep it to yourself.....we are really tired of your opinions. >:(
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 04:25:36 AM
The Police dog "found" the guy. CAP didn't. Lets not cloud issues with typical CAP double speak. Granted the CAP teams should be lauded for their efforts in "searching for the missing man".
RM
Hm...
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 10, 2012, 02:51:34 PM
Though you'll never hear about it in the news, 15 members of Long Island and New York City groups braved nearly impassable thicket , swamps, rivers,and thorn encrusted brush to search for Dr. Jerome Nadler, a missing 76 year old fisherman.
These volunteers joined Police, DEC, Parks, and 2 other volunteer groups to search for the gentleman who was found, alive on the 4th day of his ordeal.
I am proud to have been a part of this search and very proud of the members of my team who really put maximum effort into this.
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19479197/long-island-doctor-found-alive-after-4-days-lost-in-preserve)
Topic name:
QuoteRe: CAP Member Participate in Successful Rescue Mission
There comes a point when it's time to step away from the keyboard if reading comprehension is low and fast fingers do the thinking.
^^^^
Bazinga!
Thanks for all the enouragement, guys.
I think with this mission, I've got at least 4 more years of CAP in the tank now.
There was a time, not too long ago that I was thinking about hanging it up, maybe become a volunteer Firefighter.
I was starting to wonder if I was wasting my time on training I was never going to use.
Now, I'm revitalized and encouraged.
To answer the question: No, my Ground Team did NOT find the subject, nor did we rescue him. We performed a level 3 search in 2 of the 6 search grids. The target was either in our grid, or just outside it. The dog who found him was not performing a level 3 line search.
Its my opinion that either my team or the team in the grid next to us would have found the subject within 1 hour. We were that close to him. However, due to the dense ground cover and thicket, we were moving at a much slower pace than the dog teams who were simply finding a path through it all.
Once again, I'm very proud of my team and their performance and proud of the Civil Air Patrol
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 12, 2012, 07:10:17 PM
Thanks for all the enouragement, guys.
I think with this mission, I've got at least 4 more years of CAP in the tank now.
There was a time, not too long ago that I was thinking about hanging it up, maybe become a volunteer Firefighter.
I was starting to wonder if I was wasting my time on training I was never going to use.
Now, I'm revitalized and encouraged.
To answer the question: No, my Ground Team did NOT find the subject, nor did we rescue him. We performed a level 3 search in 2 of the 6 search grids. The target was either in our grid, or just outside it. The dog who found him was not performing a level 3 line search.
Its my opinion that either my team or the team in the grid next to us would have found the subject within 1 hour. We were that close to him. However, due to the dense ground cover and thicket, we were moving at a much slower pace than the dog teams who were simply finding a path through it all.
Once again, I'm very proud of my team and their performance and proud of the Civil Air Patrol
Well to be perfectly clear -- I salute you and your team for volunteering your time to try to find this gentleman. :clap: :clap:
HOWEVER, I noted that you did mention that you were considering other volunteer options (e.g. volunteer fire fighter) because up until this response you were thinking of other volunteer opportunities. In my area of my state the volunteer fire fighters are generally the manpower that can be 'readily' "toned out" via radio/radio pager and/or text message (many use both systems concurrently) paging to respond to a missing person search quickly in the community. They know the area and can be a very effective force. By state law the State Police are responsible for managing ground SAR.
I guess the real issue on CAP ES is for the functional skills you/we continual to train for, does the actual number of "call out" for real emergencies justify the time spent in training ??? :-\. Some volunteer fire department offer an emergency medical service option for the volunteer and they can be trained as a first responder, EMT, & paramedic. With equipment like an AED volunteers with minimal training may be able to provide great assistance in their communities. I personally think volunteer fire departments have much more community support than CAP will ever achieve. Also some communities, counties, other geographic areas, have Citizens Emergency Response Teams that are actively utilized at a variety of community activities and emergencies. One doesn't have to be a CAP member to join these teams, and in fact acting in a CAP membership capacity might even limit what one can do.
Also what I find interesting in this search there's no mention of utilizing the 106th Rescue Wing's,(located right on Long Island) HH60 helicopters which have FLIR capabilities. Kind of strange that they wouldn't have been called in ???.
RM
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 10:36:04 PM
I guess the real issue on CAP ES is for the functional skills you/we continual to train for, does the actual number of "call out" for real emergencies justify the time spent in training ??? :-\.
RM
That's a question for each individual to answer on their own. I'm sure it depends on location and circumstances. In my wing we enjoy a pretty good ratio of real world missions / training time. It's rewarding enough to keep me actively engaged in CAP. It far exceeds the average ratio of reading versus finding useful insights in curmudgeonly posts.
C'mon.... he was on an Island, where was he gonna go >:D Good job. Probably a huge deal for those involved, especially the cadets who get to see a real victim rescued..... AND an EC145 helicopter land in the street! What could be better!
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 12, 2012, 10:36:04 PM
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 12, 2012, 07:10:17 PM
Thanks for all the enouragement, guys.
I think with this mission, I've got at least 4 more years of CAP in the tank now.
There was a time, not too long ago that I was thinking about hanging it up, maybe become a volunteer Firefighter.
I was starting to wonder if I was wasting my time on training I was never going to use.
Now, I'm revitalized and encouraged.
To answer the question: No, my Ground Team did NOT find the subject, nor did we rescue him. We performed a level 3 search in 2 of the 6 search grids. The target was either in our grid, or just outside it. The dog who found him was not performing a level 3 line search.
Its my opinion that either my team or the team in the grid next to us would have found the subject within 1 hour. We were that close to him. However, due to the dense ground cover and thicket, we were moving at a much slower pace than the dog teams who were simply finding a path through it all.
Once again, I'm very proud of my team and their performance and proud of the Civil Air Patrol
Well to be perfectly clear -- I salute you and your team for volunteering your time to try to find this gentleman. :clap: :clap:
HOWEVER, I noted that you did mention that you were considering other volunteer options (e.g. volunteer fire fighter) because up until this response you were thinking of other volunteer opportunities. In my area of my state the volunteer fire fighters are generally the manpower that can be 'readily' "toned out" via radio/radio pager and/or text message (many use both systems concurrently) paging to respond to a missing person search quickly in the community. They know the area and can be a very effective force. By state law the State Police are responsible for managing ground SAR.
I guess the real issue on CAP ES is for the functional skills you/we continual to train for, does the actual number of "call out" for real emergencies justify the time spent in training ??? :-\. Some volunteer fire department offer an emergency medical service option for the volunteer and they can be trained as a first responder, EMT, & paramedic. With equipment like an AED volunteers with minimal training may be able to provide great assistance in their communities. I personally think volunteer fire departments have much more community support than CAP will ever achieve. Also some communities, counties, other geographic areas, have Citizens Emergency Response Teams that are actively utilized at a variety of community activities and emergencies. One doesn't have to be a CAP member to join these teams, and in fact acting in a CAP membership capacity might even limit what one can do.
Also what I find interesting in this search there's no mention of utilizing the 106th Rescue Wing's,(located right on Long Island) HH60 helicopters which have FLIR capabilities. Kind of strange that they wouldn't have been called in ???.
RM
RM
Local LE probably handled that part. Nassau and Suffolk Counties both have that equipment. In fact, I do believe that was the Suffolk County Police EC145 EMS helicopter in the video. You can hear it all throughout the video flying overhead. They have FLIR, Nightsuns and NVGs as well.
I can say, everyone on the mission was beyond fired up when the victim was found alive.
The cadets especially were beaming with excitement.
Being on Long Island, we in CAP have several things working against us.
1) Geography: Theres not alot of places to get lost on Long Island. Walk in any direction for 30 minutes and you hit a 7-11.
2) Competition: There are so many first responders here with deep pockets. (Suffolk County PD, Nassau Cty PD, Sherrifs, State Police, DEC, and all the volunteer fire departments)
FP is correct. According to PD, that was the EC145 sitting on Jericho Turnpike in the video. The helicopter were not involved in the search on the day we were sent out. It was called in when the subject was located and was overhead within 10 minutes.
It was a very cool thing to see.
Here's something pretty interesting information on Search Dogs
http://www.sardogstasmania.org.au/Effective%20Use%20of%20Dogs%20in%20Search%20Management.pdf (http://www.sardogstasmania.org.au/Effective%20Use%20of%20Dogs%20in%20Search%20Management.pdf)
Notice the number of human searchers the dog can replace.
Search dogs are definitely a force multiplier and in my past life I was a bit skeptical about their abilities, but after personally seeing what these dogs can do, my money is on the dogs being the best ground searchers for missing people, especially those that are incapacitated.
RM
Ive seen dogs that are completely useless and Ive seen dogs who look at you, yawn, sniff the air and say "Hey... your guy is over the next ridge next to a large rock on the north side" and go back to sleep. Ive seen SARs that have wasted hours following some Jack Russell Terrier for miles only for another team to find the victim 20 miles in the other direction. So far, Blood Hounds are the only consistent ones that I have actually seen do the job to the point where my jaw drops. Plus... their bark is rather entertaining.
We were looking for a suicidal subject in the mountains once. After two day brought out a Blood Hound, put him in the guys car, let him root around. Took him out and the handler gave some command and that dog was GONE! Found the guy about a mile away. Deceased unfortunately, but it was recent. Almost like he may have killed himself when he saw us arrive.
Another was on a burglary of a restaurant where the suspect cut himself on a broken window. Brought out a blood hound. Sniffed around and then it was all the handler could do just to keep up. The handler was pulled pulled by the dog for several blocks (while we followed in our cars >:D) and it took us right to the door where we located the suspect inside. LOVE IT!
Quote from: jpizzo127 on September 13, 2012, 03:08:23 PM
I can say, everyone on the mission was beyond fired up when the victim was found alive.
2) Competition: There are so many first responders here with deep pockets. (Suffolk County PD, Nassau Cty PD, Sherrifs, State Police, DEC, and all the volunteer fire departments)
Looking at this as an outsider and only what the media presented and what you posted here, it seems to me that the potential mind set for this search was more of a "recovery" nature rather than a rescue based upon the age of the individual, the time that had passed, in this 543 acres of undeveloped swamp land :-\.
Also regarding competition, I have no ideas what the NY (or local county) laws/protocols are on missing person searches, BUT there should be NO competition as to who is going to respond. The SAR plan should be very specific as to team/agency call outs and the procedures they will utilize, but anyone called out should be properly trained (and ideally have worked together on exercises in the past). In my state it is normally the State Police that are in charge of search management. There is a protocol to use volunteers.
BTW did CAP actually train with the agencies involved in a specific missing person search in the past ???
Again I salute you and your team for enduring those conditions in the swamp. :clap:
RM