this may seem somewhat pothetic but in most cases im the highest level cadet ground team member and im still only ges, most everyone on the ground is ges inactive or doesn't even hace a card and that is my problem in my squadron cadets manage to sneak past sign in without being actual 101 ready so what do i do to stop this AS A CADET THAT IS GENERALLY LOWER RANKING.
First step, notify your unit commander.
If that doesn't fix the problem, or the members are not from your unit, file a complaint following the proper procedures as outlined in CAPR 123-2, Complaints (http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503080301.pdf).
As a cadet, you can refuse to place yourself at risk by not going out with those members.
thank you also what do i do if cadets hace 101 cards but an incredibly bad pack(E.G. a few band aids and a pocket knife) or no jacket in very bad weather
Quote from: swya on February 18, 2007, 06:08:02 AM
thank you also what do i do if cadets hace 101 cards but an incredibly bad pack(E.G. a few band aids and a pocket knife) or no jacket in very bad weather
Are you the leader? If so, don't let them go out without the minimum necessary equipment. Definitely explain to them why they are not going out.
If you're not the leader, bring your concerns to the leader.
Remember, you always have the option of not going out yourself, especially with an ill-prepared team. Ultimately,
YOU are responsibile for your own safety.
Frankly, if all you have is GES, you shouldn't be going out on the ground team either --- I assume if you had already met the pre-requisities and basic training requirements for GTM, then you would have said so.
You are to be commended for the fact that, considering your unit doesn't seem to care about regs, you have still gotten up to speed.
My advice would be to enlist the help of your parents, who in turn should research the issue and enlist the assistance of seniors in the program.
I agree with others, though, that drawing the line at your own participation, and in a respectful way pointing out WHY you can't go (leaving the failings of others alone), could start the conversations.
This could be anything from ignorance to negligence, and flavors in between.
There is so much wrong in this situation, it is hard to know where to start, but you also don't want to go charging in there making accusations until you know the whole story.
thanks everyone also my gtm3 is pending
How does one "Sneak" onto a ground team without a 101 card? If they have GES and are training for GT, I understand, but the impression I get from this is that they are completely without documentation.
Also, why are they out without canteens of water, and proper team equipment? Didn't anybody watch "Blackhawk Down," and if they did, why didn't they get the message of proper preparation for missions?
I have a mental disease called "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" and as a result of this handicap I am unable to take a unit into the field without an equipment check.
Quote from: swya on February 18, 2007, 06:21:08 PM
thanks everyone also my gtm3 is pending
Hmm...a little confused.
How can your GT3 be "pending" if you don't have a 101 card?
The original poster had his 101 card. He said other people didn't have them...
as a response to johnkachemeister's message people sneak on missions by not even signing in and keeping a low profile until we get into the field, and they dont have 101s at all, once someone went on without renewing his membership(even though he did it two days later) and john im like you with equipment checks however im not in charge im only a cadet
You know, I really can't see how this can be happening, unless this is in small-scale, unit-centric missions that are more like campouts than ES operations. That, sadly, happens all the time.
At any mid-to-larger scale activity, there just can't be that many benevolent seniors who will look the other way. Sure, things slip through the cracks, and lines are fudged, but to launch a ground sortie:
The GTL is responsible for checking the credentials of the members, and their equipment, and making sure both are current and correct. He then must complete a CAPF 109 to turn into the GBD.
The GBD, and/or briefers are responsible for double-checking everything, looking over the team compositions, etc.
I don't know how they do things in Nevada, but in IL, there are only about 10-12 qualified GBD's in the whole state, and in turn, we KNOW who the GTL's are, so its real hard to slip stuff by us.
Now, if you're saying they are launching sorties without 109's, or worse, GTL's, and just winging it with a senior, an L-Per, and a prayer, may God have mercy on their souls.
I doubt it, though, because that would never get past the CAP-USAF people and others involved in oversight.
An occasional exception, sure. On a regular basis, no.
It would take such an ill-advised conspiracy to make that happen that it would make the Kennedy Assassination look like a routine homicide.
Quote from: swya on February 19, 2007, 02:33:48 AM
as a response to johnkachemeister's message people sneak on missions by not even signing in and keeping a low profile until we get into the field, and they dont have 101s at all, once someone went on without renewing his membership(even though he did it two days later) and john im like you with equipment checks however im not in charge im only a cadet
It sounds like there needs to be a few operational qualification suspensions (mostly on the GTL's part).
Don't take the stance that "I'm only a cadet". Even though you are "only a cadet", you are still on the ground team. Nothing is stopping you from reminding the GTL about equipment and 101 card checks.
If the GTL ignores you, then just request to sit it out. You really wouldn't want that GTL as your GTL out on a sortie.
I would think that a mission staff assistant would be checking 101 cards or, least, confirming issuance of 101 cards through either MIMS or the WMU. The ultimate responsibility falls with the incident commander. I'd hate to see some one on a mission or SAREX without the proper credentials. No FTCA or FECA coverage for those 18 or older - and that can't be a good thing!
thank you everyone, now i think that i know what some options are
Just to clarify, are we talking about real missions or mission-numbered SAREXes or just your squadron having a bivouac in the woods and learning some ground team tasks?
mission numbered sarex's where ground team members play the parts of terrorists or lost hikers for pilots to find and also there are no gtl's or ground team branch directors with us
Quote from: swya on February 19, 2007, 04:24:30 AM
mission numbered sarex's where ground team members play the parts of terrorists or lost hikers for pilots to find and also there are no gtl's or ground team branch directors with us
Cadet, I'm curious who is searching for these 'terrorists'?
Is it possible your squadron is serving as "targets" (under CAP officer supervision) for some other agency?? Such as state police, military forces, Homeland Security?
If that is so, I doubt you need much more qualification than GES to go sit in woods or wherever and wait to be 'caught'....of course, you need to be properly equipped for safety....you might be simulated victims, lost persons, or whatever, but you still need to pay attention to climate, safety, proper hydration.....the officer in charge should see to that.
CAP ground teams don't search for terrorists, real or simulated.
we play terrorists, lost hikers, etc. while cap planes look for us, to me this is a liability issue for those cadets
Whatever... isn't GES permenant by the way? How can you be "GES Inactive"? Plus, are we talking about they don't have a 01 card physically in their posession, or they aren't GES qual'd online? Cause I'd have to print a card if I really needed one & that's kind of pointless when the mission is done via cell phone to a remote IC.
you're ges inactive when your commander has yet to approve your 116 but you did pass and when i said no 101 i meant they had never taken the 116
I don't think CCs approve GES. I know when I took it it logged directly to the SQTRs & there's no record of it being approved anywhere. I don't know I'm not a CC.
if cc means cadet commander than no, but the commander has to approve you to be ges active
Some interesting ah challenges there cadet. If this is the NV SAREX I think it is, I was flying as an MO that day and lordmoner was participating on the ground.
If you have evidence to back this up you must report it up your chain of command. If you have only hearsay you may want to remain reserved until you have proof. Good people have been hurt by bogus charges in the past and you never know who's reading what you write. The best and most honest course is to follow your chain of command.
Okay I'm going to come the SWYA's rescue here.
First off......there has only been one cadet who has NOT been GES qualified ever get on a team...and that was my fault because I did not listen close enough to what he was saying.
Second......in NVWG lately we have been flying a lot of HLS profiles during our SAREX's. These are mainly photo recon, but we have also been doing route searches and "suspicious activity" searches. In those missions we put a team down in the target areas with instructions to hide when ever a plane goes by to simulate a terrorist group moving around in day light.
NVWG is in the process of rebuilding its GT capability. Local (non CAP) politics over the years created a situation where GT fell off the CAP priority list. And due to this we are in serious need of fully qualified GT members and an integrated plan on using GT in the SAR role.
We have never actually sortied a GT during a SAREX as a Ground Team yet. We have been on the ground in the "target" mode. We plan to have enough GT qualified personnel and enough visibility of cadets at the mission base by this summer to fully integrate GTs (with cadets) with the aerial mission.
The issue with the GES inactive....is because the owning commanders are not updating the cadet's Curry in E-Services. So if you don't have the Curry updated....when you print out your 101 card...it shows "inactive" next to your GES. This has been noted several times at the SAREX and the IC waived it in the system.
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
I figured there had to be an explanation, Pat. Thinks for providing one.
unfortunately, lordmonar it has happened several times in sarex's before that one.to what flyerthom said i do have verbal evidence but nothing more
It's more of a problem in Southern NV, In the north there's even a Jeep Squadron. Politics with Clark County led to a lessening of importance to ground teams but there were ground team leaders and qualified cadets when we did the actual missions for the Columbia Parts search several years ago. We need to look outside Clark County for our place or begin to utilize our people for inter-agency liaison.
in northern arizona, kingman, lake havasu, bullhead, and yuma there is no ground team at all and they need udf and they have to call in the phoenix ground team which is 5 hours away. We are only 2 hours away from somewhere that could use us. Why cant we go there ???
Quote from: swya on February 19, 2007, 06:47:26 AM
if cc means cadet commander than no, but the commander has to approve you to be ges active
Just an FYI cadet, CC means commander. If it were cadet commander it would be referenced as C/CC.
why are there 2 c's
Component Commander
eg. SQ/CC Squadron Component Commander
WG/CC Wing Component Commander
etc.
oh ok now all this stuff makes sense
What is it 20-1 that has the office symbols in it? You should get familiar with some of those.
thank you sir that is something i shall do soon
Quote from: swya on February 19, 2007, 09:06:47 PM
oh ok now all this stuff makes sense
You're in trouble. I've been in the military and/or CAP since 1963 and it still don't make sense to me.
Since it makes sense to you, why do people say "Stand fast?"
I have tried several times to stand slow, or stand fast, and no matter what I do I always end up standing at the same speed, which is usually zero.
i meant i get the cc thing
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 20, 2007, 12:11:05 AM
Since it makes sense to you, why do people say "Stand fast?"
I have tried several times to stand slow, or stand fast, and no matter what I do I always end up standing at the same speed, which is usually zero.
;D
I do believe stand fast & hold fast come from nautical terminology, and while I might be mistaken, I believe it started with a command to quickly hold tension on that line (rope).
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 20, 2007, 12:11:05 AM
Since it makes sense to you, why do people say "Stand fast?"
I have tried several times to stand slow, or stand fast, and no matter what I do I always end up standing at the same speed, which is usually zero.
John, quit pulling the cadet's leg!
By te way, do you ahve a smoke shifter I could borrow??!??
what's a smoke shifter and where do you get one because that sounds cool ;D
They are very effective during night snipe-hunting operations....
Quote from: swya on February 20, 2007, 02:55:23 AM
what's a smoke shifter and where do you get one because that sounds cool ;D
My apologies, cadet, I was messing with you too!
Anyone on a bivouac asks for a smoke shifter, a sky hook,, or mentions snipe hunting as Eclipse did, is kidding with you....ain't no such things!
haha very funny that's a good one i'll have to do that to someone
I feel as if I'm passing the torch to the next generation!
Just don't give away all of the secrets of the dark side...
Although with Nitrogen in auto tires becoming popular and cheaper ...the whole joke of putting "winter air" in your tires isn't as funny.
But there's always Muffler Bearings
Don't forget to pack your left handed spanner. :)
But sending someone for a bucket of prop wash is for real. Clean props are happy props.
or a roll of flight line ;D
Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 20, 2007, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: swya on February 20, 2007, 02:55:23 AM
what's a smoke shifter and where do you get one because that sounds cool ;D
My apologies, cadet, I was messing with you too!
Anyone on a bivouac asks for a smoke shifter, a sky hook,, or mentions snipe hunting as Eclipse did, is kidding with you....ain't no such things!
But snipe hunting is one of my favorite bivvie activities. It builds character.
YMMV!
My left-handed smoke shifter broke last year, but fortunately, I was able to find the metric crescent wrench I needed to fix it.
Quote from: lordmonar on February 19, 2007, 07:24:44 AM
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
Ah, that MUST be why it's called Sin City. ;D I've never had the pleasure of "sining in" to a CAP activity yet. :'(
Quote from: DNall on February 19, 2007, 06:31:07 AM
Whatever... isn't GES permenant by the way?
GES does not expire unless a new test is published, at which time the individual has 180 days to take the new test or his GES does expire.
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 19, 2007, 07:24:44 AM
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
Ah, that MUST be why it's called Sin City. ;D I've never had the pleasure of "sining in" to a CAP activity yet. :'(
:D
Come on down some time....and we'll show you how a SAREX is really done! >:D
Quote from: lordmonar on February 21, 2007, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 19, 2007, 07:24:44 AM
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
Ah, that MUST be why it's called Sin City. ;D I've never had the pleasure of "sining in" to a CAP activity yet. :'(
:D
Come on down some time....and we'll show you how a SAREX is really done! >:D
Hmmm, what does *that* SQTR look like? :o
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 21, 2007, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 19, 2007, 07:24:44 AM
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
Ah, that MUST be why it's called Sin City. ;D I've never had the pleasure of "sining in" to a CAP activity yet. :'(
Hey... THAT'S why everybody laughed when I asked about what uniform to wear!
:D
Come on down some time....and we'll show you how a SAREX is really done! >:D
Hmmm, what does *that* SQTR look like? :o
i enjoy sining in but wait until you sin out >:D
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 21, 2007, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: Fifinella on February 21, 2007, 04:46:06 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 19, 2007, 07:24:44 AM
I don't know anything about people sneaking into the SAREX with out sining in. If that is happening it is not a wide spread thing going on.
Ah, that MUST be why it's called Sin City. ;D I've never had the pleasure of "sining in" to a CAP activity yet. :'(
:D
Come on down some time....and we'll show you how a SAREX is really done! >:D
Hmmm, what does *that* SQTR look like? :o
TASKS:
LV-0001: Demonstrate ability to use ATM machine to convert bank account into expendable cash.
LV-0002: Demonstrate ability to insert money into slot machines and pull handle.
LV-0003: Demonstrate ability to secure a title loan/payday loan/2nd Mortgage to continue training on task LV-0002.
LV-0004: Demonstrate ability to secure transportation after cashing in plane/train/bus ticket or giving up title to POV.
You forgot to mention the task of learning to evade the porno flyer handout people.
Aslo tasking while drinking
Quote from: desert rat on February 22, 2007, 12:06:36 AM
You forgot to mention the task of learning to evade the porno flyer handout people.
Aslo tasking while drinking
What, no pole dancing?
Why do you evade the porno flyer handout people?
I call that "Gathering Intel."
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 22, 2007, 12:46:44 AM
Why do you evade the porno flyer handout people?
I call that "Gathering Intel."
You guys have ENTIRELY too much free time on your hands!
wow! just imagine if CAP tapped into all that free time for missions. Just think about all that we could be doing.
Or perhaps others just have too little time. ;D
Quote from: desert rat on February 22, 2007, 12:06:36 AM
You forgot to mention the task of learning to evade the porno flyer handout people.
Avoid? >:D
QuoteAlso tasking while drinking
This part of Sinner Leader training! >:D
Then the medics course must include treating hangovers. lol >:D
Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 20, 2007, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: swya on February 20, 2007, 02:55:23 AM
what's a smoke shifter and where do you get one because that sounds cool ;D
My apologies, cadet, I was messing with you too!
Anyone on a bivouac asks for a smoke shifter, a sky hook,, or mentions snipe hunting as Eclipse did, is kidding with you....ain't no such things!
And if the HSO send you for a Fallopian Tube...
Quote from: flyerthom on February 22, 2007, 05:46:25 AM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 20, 2007, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: swya on February 20, 2007, 02:55:23 AM
what's a smoke shifter and where do you get one because that sounds cool ;D
My apologies, cadet, I was messing with you too!
Anyone on a bivouac asks for a smoke shifter, a sky hook,, or mentions snipe hunting as Eclipse did, is kidding with you....ain't no such things!
And if the HSO send you for a Fallopian Tube...
still a roll of flight line is way cool
Quote from: desert rat on February 22, 2007, 05:44:04 AM
Then the medics course must include treating hangovers. lol >:D
Gatorade, high flow O2 from someones airplane...
James, how about getting me a bottle of K9P. >:D
Quote from: desert rat on February 22, 2007, 06:05:10 AM
James, how about getting me a bottle of K9P. >:D
And I need a CAP Form 1 D 10 T. :D
Oops, I'm all out of DF Bearing Grease. Quick, get me some.
Quote from: lordmonar on February 22, 2007, 06:14:43 AM
Quote from: desert rat on February 22, 2007, 06:05:10 AM
James, how about getting me a bottle of K9P. >:D
And I need a CAP Form 1 D 10 T. :D
I prefer to use a BA-1100-N...
Ever fly a mission in an OH-10?
Health Services?
"Go to Central Supply and pick up two sterile Fallopian Tubes."
"Then stop by the Pharmacy and pick up a bottle of Bowman's Capsules."
"Paging Doctor Reuben... Doctor Billy Reuben."
Snipe hunting season is now over. Lock.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8b/Commonsnipe67.jpg/250px-Commonsnipe67.jpg)