I've noticed that some of my posts come off or are interpretted in ways so bent from what I was trying to say. I don't know if I have some writing impediment or if I simply speak in something that requires heard tone for it to be understood. I don't like offending people when I am trying to say something completely different than what they think I said. Any help or recommendations on internet tone, internet writing help, or anything that will help me convey my message to be clear and effective?
A good place for you to start with would be the Tongue and Quill. It is AFH33-337 and can give you ideas, and a good general rule of thumb is read what is written and reread it. If it sounds hostile or may be interpreted as such then you need to rethink it. If you are writing it when in a heightened emotional state, look at it later and rewrite. Practice makes perfect to be honest but never write something when you are angry.
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 25, 2012, 05:03:27 AM
A good place for you to start with would be the Tongue and Quill. It is AFH33-337 and can give you ideas, and a good general rule of thumb is read what is written and reread it. If it sounds hostile or may be interpreted as such then you need to rethink it. If you are writing it when in a heightened emotional state, look at it later and rewrite. Practice makes perfect to be honest but never write something when you are angry.
Thank you. Looking over it now.
I had a minor in English Composition in my BA program. One point to consider: you don't write in the same manner that you speak. If you do, the result is as hard to understand as your speaking. Go find a good English teacher, one who specializes in composition, and follow his/her instruction. You might find something online, but I am not attuned to that way of doing things: too old and onery. Computers were brought into common use after I retired from the Army in 1987.
FEMA has a couple of courses that may help:
IS-242.a - Effective Communication
IS-613 - Technical Writing
I've done 242.a, it's pretty good, and it's not overly long. I haven't done 613, so I can't speak specifically to it.
It is almost impossible to always convey the tone you intend in writing without taking extra care. That is why emoticons exist and why people will use (and overuse) bold, caps and various forms of punctuation as well as adding qualifiers such as "sarcasm", "just kidding", etc. We have all been misunderstood at one time or another... even me.
Being misunderstood by being unable to express yourself, and plain olde crappy writing (bad spelling, punctuation, grammar, and word choice) are very different.
Not being able to string together the right words to get a message across is something a writing course can help.
The crappy writing simply adds to the understanding problem, and it usually based on a similarly crappy attitude, and an unwillingness to address the problem and fix it.
Here are some word choice problems I see every day on here:
prescribed/proscribed
where/were/we're/wear
it's/its (most common current language mistake)
there/their/they're
whose, who's
would of (should be would have)
YMMV.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 30, 2012, 02:38:46 AM
Being misunderstood by being unable to express yourself, and plain olde crappy writing (bad spelling, punctuation, grammar, and word choice) are very different.
I am especially fond of people who write in very clear sentences, with good structure, good grammar, and coherent ideas,
then raise the "you misunderstood me" flag when people call them on their opinions.
It's important to understand that words have specific meanings. All of those vocabulary tests we took in grade school were for a reason. Some words imply certain tones just because of their very definition.
However, a lot of the time, the person on the other end of the conversation is just looking for an argument and will interpret things how they want to because they don't have an understanding of language. Many people here like to argue for the sake of arguing, or for the sake of proving that they are more orthodox than you are in their regulation knowledge and interpretation.
There are also cases where certain discussions are just not going to translate well to a forum like this. For example, there are frequently posts that ask for help about problems people are facing in their units. We try not to be so specific that it becomes obvious who the problem is with (to avoid repercussions), which makes the problem misunderstood in the first place.
With that said, if you are looking for some online writing courses, there are several online schools that you can take courses with. American Military University (amu.apus.edu), American Public University (apus.edu), Penn State (psu.edu), University of Maryland University College (umuc.edu), Southern New Hampshire University (snhu.edu), and others, offer online courses in writing, composition, rhetoric, and a wide variety of other English courses to help develop your writing skills.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 30, 2012, 02:38:46 AM
Being misunderstood by being unable to express yourself, and plain olde crappy writing (bad spelling, punctuation, grammar, and word choice) are very different.
Not being able to string together the right words to get a message across is something a writing course can help.
The crappy writing simply adds to the understanding problem, and it usually based on a similarly crappy attitude, and an unwillingness to address the problem and fix it.
Here are some word choice problems I see every day on here:
prescribed/proscribed
where/were/we're/wear
it's/its (most common current language mistake)
there/their/they're
whose, who's
would of (should be would have)
YMMV.
Please don't forget the run-on sentence, dangling participles, and the lack of capitalization. I am so tempted to go into teacher mode and return all posts that don't achieve at least a 90% passing grade! >:D
Oh, and shouldn't there be a thread somewhere that noobs like me can go to so we can figure out what YMMV and all the other ones mean? ???
Wow, talk about a run-on sentence...
YMMV = your mileage may vary
This can be interpreted a couple of different ways, depending on context.
My usage was - your opinion may be different, but I'm not going to argue about it.
The other common usage - your knowledge and experience may be different, and maybe we can discuss it.
This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on July 30, 2012, 04:53:17 AM
This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Here's a link to an article about writing, and another link to a useful book. Both compliments of Harvard Business Review.
Article (http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2012/07/i_wont_hire_people_who_use_poo.html)
Book (http://hbr.org/product/guide-to-better-business-writing-2nd-edition/an/10919-PDF-ENG?Ntt=guide%2520to%2520better%2520business%2520writing)
I ain'ts gotsta lern no durn English. I speek wel enuf to bee under....onder...peepil kin figger owt wut Im talkin bout. Ritin is fer dem sissified upity folk who gotsta show off.
And then there's that [darn]ed Harvard comma, which I've seen a few times in this thread.
"I'm sick, tired and sick again of the Harvard comma" becomes "I'm sick, tired, and sick again." Since the comma denotes "and" in a series, it's like saying "and and." Leave it to the Ivy Leaguers (sigh). If I use it, it's in a situation where it helps to clarify; otherwise, I ain't-a gonna use it.
Anyway, I'd suggest, if you're working in public affairs and want to learn news writing, finding a book like The Associated Press Guide To News Writing. It's possible you'd find a writing course at Poynter.org, online home of The Poynter Institute for Media Studies in St. Petersburg, Fla., or at Poynter's News U.
(Full disclosure: My newspaper is owned by Poynter.)
Classic example:
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope, and Mother Teresa.
or
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope and Mother Teresa.
That comma, also known as the Fowler Comma, makes a huge difference.
I've read all of the things here and they've been very helpful. Thank you all!
Hypergrammar (http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/grammar.html%5B/url) Writing Centre at the University of Ottawa
Guide to Grammar and Writing (http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/index.htm) includes Principles of Composition (http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/composition/composition.htm%5B/url) and Diagramming Sentences (http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm) Capital Community College Foundation
English Grammar and Usage (http://www.german-latin-english.com/english_grammar.htm) and 500 Sentence Diagrams (http://www.german-latin-english.com/diagrams.htm%5B/url) by Eugene R. Moutoux
Rachel Simon The Writer's Writing Guide (http://www.rachelsimon.com/wgcontents.php)
and just for fun (I have a strange idea of fun)
Reed-Kellogg Sentence Diagrammer (http://1aiway.com/nlp4net/services/enparser/) on-line
SenDraw (http://www.sendraw.ucf.edu/%5B/url) UCF Department of English software program used for creating Reed-Kellogg sentence diagrams
Quote from: SarDragon on August 01, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
Classic example:
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope, and Mother Teresa.
or
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope and Mother Teresa.
That comma, also known as the Fowler Comma, makes a huge difference.
That extra comma makes your parents the Pope, versus one of a series of people or objects:
"I had dinner with my parents, Mr. and Mrs. Bill Board, and Mother Teresa."
However, here's where it can work to clarify things:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board, and Mother Teresa."
Otherwise, Mother Teresa may become a third wheel in your family:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board and Mother Teresa."
I'm only a fan of that comma when it's required to eliminate confusion. It's superfluous.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 02, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 01, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
Classic example:
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope, and Mother Teresa.
or
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope and Mother Teresa.
That comma, also known as the Fowler Comma, makes a huge difference.
That extra comma makes your parents the Pope, versus one of a series of people or objects:
"I had dinner with my parents, Mr. and Mrs. Bill Board, and Mother Teresa."
However, here's where it can work to clarify things:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board, and Mother Teresa."
Otherwise, Mother Teresa may become a third wheel in your family:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board and Mother Teresa."
I'm only a fan of that comma when it's required to eliminate confusion. It's superfluous.
In this case, it is NOT superfluous. It defines the specific people eating dinner, and their relationship (or lack thereof). The comma is used as a pause when reading the sentence.
I got this from this guy (http://verbivore.com/wordpress/). He is a retired English professor, who makes his living these days writing books and talking about language.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 03, 2012, 02:21:44 AM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 02, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 01, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
Classic example:
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope, and Mother Teresa.
or
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope and Mother Teresa.
That comma, also known as the Fowler Comma, makes a huge difference.
That extra comma makes your parents the Pope, versus one of a series of people or objects:
"I had dinner with my parents, Mr. and Mrs. Bill Board, and Mother Teresa."
However, here's where it can work to clarify things:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board, and Mother Teresa."
Otherwise, Mother Teresa may become a third wheel in your family:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board and Mother Teresa."
I'm only a fan of that comma when it's required to eliminate confusion. It's superfluous.
In this case, it is NOT superfluous. It defines the specific people eating dinner, and their relationship (or lack thereof). The comma is used as a pause when reading the sentence.
I got this from this guy (http://verbivore.com/wordpress/). He is a retired English professor, who makes his living these days writing books and talking about language.
Retired professor. Figures. Well, outside the college environment, it's not used a whole lot. >:D
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 04, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 03, 2012, 02:21:44 AM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 02, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 01, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
Classic example:
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope, and Mother Teresa.
or
Last night, I had dinner with my parents, the Pope and Mother Teresa.
That comma, also known as the Fowler Comma, makes a huge difference.
That extra comma makes your parents the Pope, versus one of a series of people or objects:
"I had dinner with my parents, Mr. and Mrs. Bill Board, and Mother Teresa."
However, here's where it can work to clarify things:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board, and Mother Teresa."
Otherwise, Mother Teresa may become a third wheel in your family:
"I had dinner with my parents, Bill and Cuppy Board and Mother Teresa."
I'm only a fan of that comma when it's required to eliminate confusion. It's superfluous.
In this case, it is NOT superfluous. It defines the specific people eating dinner, and their relationship (or lack thereof). The comma is used as a pause when reading the sentence.
I got this from this guy (http://verbivore.com/wordpress/). He is a retired English professor, who makes his living these days writing books and talking about language.
Retired professor. Figures. Well, outside the college environment, it's not used a whole lot. >:D
I did a "summer camp for college kids" type of thing my junior year of college at The Florida Times Union (big paper in Jacksonville.) It wasn't an internship; more of a week-long hands-on experience builder. It's funny what you say about college professors, because within the first 5 minutes of day one at "newspaper camp" the editor leading the class said "Forget everything you learned in college."
Quote from: Woodsy on August 04, 2012, 10:02:53 PM
I did a "summer camp for college kids" type of thing my junior year of college at The Florida Times Union (big paper in Jacksonville.) It wasn't an internship; more of a week-long hands-on experience builder. It's funny what you say about college professors, because within the first 5 minutes of day one at "newspaper camp" the editor leading the class said "Forget everything you learned in college."
Heck, I know people who seemed to have forgotten everything from K through 12 as well.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 04, 2012, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: Woodsy on August 04, 2012, 10:02:53 PM
I did a "summer camp for college kids" type of thing my junior year of college at The Florida Times Union (big paper in Jacksonville.) It wasn't an internship; more of a week-long hands-on experience builder. It's funny what you say about college professors, because within the first 5 minutes of day one at "newspaper camp" the editor leading the class said "Forget everything you learned in college."
Heck, I know people who seemed to have forgotten everything from K through 12 as well.
just wut the heck ar u incineratin?
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 04, 2012, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 04, 2012, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: Woodsy on August 04, 2012, 10:02:53 PM
I did a "summer camp for college kids" type of thing my junior year of college at The Florida Times Union (big paper in Jacksonville.) It wasn't an internship; more of a week-long hands-on experience builder. It's funny what you say about college professors, because within the first 5 minutes of day one at "newspaper camp" the editor leading the class said "Forget everything you learned in college."
Heck, I know people who seemed to have forgotten everything from K through 12 as well.
just wut the heck ar u incineratin?
nutin'... just sayin' dat sum folks 'round dees here parts seem like dey aint got no edumacation.
People in Jacksonville know how to read?
I keed. I keed. Jacksonville really isn't in Florida, though. Just in name only. The real Florida starts south of I-4, culturally. Jacksonville's the biggest city in south Georgia.
People say a similar thing about Memphis in that it is a lot more like Mississippi than Tennessee.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 05, 2012, 01:00:16 AM
People in Jacksonville know how to read?
I keed. I keed. Jacksonville really isn't in Florida, though. Just in name only. The real Florida starts south of I-4, culturally. Jacksonville's the biggest city in south Georgia.
Jax is almost big enough to be its own state. It's 75% of the size of Rhode Island, and has a higher population density.
Having lived there for three years, I'd still consider it more Florida than Georgia, though.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on August 05, 2012, 01:00:16 AM
People in Jacksonville know how to read?
I keed. I keed. Jacksonville really isn't in Florida, though. Just in name only. The real Florida starts south of I-4, culturally. Jacksonville's the biggest city in south Georgia.
Sadly, I can't argue with that.