CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 01:31:47 PM

Title: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 01:31:47 PM
Awhile back was talking with someone in the know in the Air Force and one of the staffing issue changes being explored is the use of Air Force Reserve personnel to staff the CAP-USAF region (and like headquarters) positions.  Likely these would be special tours of active duty.     CAP-USAF historically has successfully utilized reservists in CAP.

Haven't seen much updated news on the CAP website regarding the transition planning.

Anyone know if the AF Reserve staffing is moving forward ???
RM     
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: sarmed1 on July 22, 2012, 03:59:04 PM
I would lean more towards IMA's or even traditional reservists personally

mk
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Eclipse on July 22, 2012, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 01:31:47 PM
Awhile back was talking with someone in the know in the Air Force and one of the staffing issue changes being explored is the use of Air Force Reserve personnel to staff the CAP-USAF region (and like headquarters) positions.  Likely these would be special tours of active duty.     CAP-USAF historically has successfully utilized reservists in CAP.

You're suggesting that a program being reduced because of budgetary issues will then increase its budget to assign reservists to back-fill RIF'ed jobs?

The majority of the duties performed by RIF'ed personnel will be moved back to the volunteers, or simply eliminated as a requirement.  As part of the
reorganization the RAP program is being reduced as down as well.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 04:21:19 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 22, 2012, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 01:31:47 PM
Awhile back was talking with someone in the know in the Air Force and one of the staffing issue changes being explored is the use of Air Force Reserve personnel to staff the CAP-USAF region (and like headquarters) positions.  Likely these would be special tours of active duty.     CAP-USAF historically has successfully utilized reservists in CAP.

You're suggesting that a program being reduced because of budgetary issues will then increase its budget to assign  reservists to back-fill RIF'ed jobs?

The majority of the duties performed by RIF'ed personnel will be moved back to the volunteers, or simply eliminated as a requirement.  As part of the
reorganization the RAP program is being reduced as down as well.

No the plan being studied is that active duty AF military personnel now at the Region level (CAP-USAF Detachment level) will be replaced by reserve personnel, likely on a special tour of active duty.   Ideally, the reservist would be living in the commute area of where the detachments offices are currently located, but I would guess that it could be brought onto Air Force Reserve bases if one is in the area.    Also this might cut down on personnel movement costs if there's a pool of qualified reservists in the commute area.

For the "points only" reservists, I would assume that this is also a budget item that is controlled (e.g. just because you want to be a points only reservist you may not be able to get a slot), since eventually they are going to earn actual military retirement pay. 
   
RM
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Eclipse on July 22, 2012, 05:29:28 PM
Studied by whom?
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: PHall on July 22, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
A Reservist on a Special Tour of Active Duty costs exactly the same as an Active Duty member would.
There would be no cost savings...

But what do I know, I only retired from the Reserve after 31-1/2 years...
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: FW on July 22, 2012, 06:34:38 PM
CAP-USAF reorganization plans are completed. The Region Liason Offices will basically remain the same however, state level positions have been eliminated. Thanks to tremendous self oversight, the Air Force has agreed to let CAP volunteers serve as "Wing Coordinators". As of 1 September, these coordinators will assume many of the functions of State Dircectors  with certain exceptions. Region Liason Offices will do more with less. It will be interesting to see how we handle it. CAP should get all the information and requirements by the NB meeting next month.

This coming conference will be the most important CAP meeting in the last 10 years. I am eager to find out what the organization's future structure will look.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: sarmed1 on July 22, 2012, 07:07:55 PM
Quotestate level positions have been eliminated.
This doesnt really suprise me much, even being on the "inside" I am not sure what an SD does all day to make up a 40 hour work week.  Region level management seems to be more than adequate.  I am not sold per say on the "Wing Coordinators"  I would have to see the job description.  The bonus to the SD being the AF rep was that they kept that distanced perspective and looked at what was in everyones best interest (specifically the AF's)  there were no old boy, political ties, no "personal" interest in approvals and "coordinatioj" .  Conversly when I was the Sq/CC on an AD base with frequent interatction with the AD folks I couldnt grasp why I need the state LO officer 2 hours away, who didnt know anyone on my base per say, to intervene on my behalf to talk to the AD element to coordinate support for services, tours, billiting etc etc.  So I too am interested to see how this works out.

mk
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on July 22, 2012, 08:13:49 PM
Quote from: PHall on July 22, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
A Reservist on a Special Tour of Active Duty costs exactly the same as an Active Duty member would.
There would be no cost savings...

But what do I know, I only retired from the Reserve after 31-1/2 years...

Actually what was said is that "they" were looking at AF Reservists to staff CAP-USAF in lieu of the current AF (active duty) personnel (and it definitely included the regional, detachment levels).   Now whether this is a mix of traditional reservists, air reserve technicians, or reservists on special tor of active duty, was not disclosed.

I don't that Civil Air Patrol Inc has any say in the management/staffing of CAP-USAF or its' detachments anyways.  We shall see in the future years what other changes occur on the USAF organization side :-\.
RM 
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: BrannG on July 23, 2012, 01:57:50 AM
What I know so far on this is this:

Phase in on this staffing change began in May 2012 and should be complete by September 2012. Reservists are Category E and Regular Ready-Reservists. RR will be utilized on command level for CAP-USAF / CAP-HQ at Maxwell AFB, AL. Cat E will utilize positions at Regional and Wing levels. They are condensing the staff needs to better fit the CAP-USAF budget, but placing two "Liaison Officers" per Region to support the CAP-USAF oversight requirements, thus allowing CAP-HQ to open more positions inside the corporate level. The idea is that it is cheaper for CAP-HQ to handle corporate payroll / volunteers then it is for the USAF to continue the oversight rate of a Liaison Officer per Wing, and per Region not to mention the full staff at CAP-USAF.

There is a pdf done that explains this better, and can be found here : http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAPUSAF_ReOrg_Committee_Final_59_Ma_35D2D0053A61A.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAPUSAF_ReOrg_Committee_Final_59_Ma_35D2D0053A61A.pdf)
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: FW on July 22, 2012, 06:34:38 PM
This coming conference will be the most important CAP meeting in the last 10 years. I am eager to find out what the organization's future structure will look.

As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades. 
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: billford1 on July 28, 2012, 04:22:42 PM
I will miss Rich Ameida our outgoing State Director. He was discussing his next move and we talked about places we'd lived. It turns out we were in the same 1st grade class over 50 years ago. We got a good laugh out of that one.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Patterson on July 31, 2012, 05:01:05 AM
This is very interesting to say the least.  Locally would these changes impact a 'typical" CAP Squadron?  I know we enjoy having the local Base Squadron Commanders send Airman/ NCOs to us when we need support (drivers, cooks, instructors etc.) and they need to make up a UTA.  Could this impact that arrangement?
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: sarmed1 on July 31, 2012, 08:27:16 PM
Quote from: Patterson on July 31, 2012, 05:01:05 AM
This is very interesting to say the least.  Locally would these changes impact a 'typical" CAP Squadron?  I know we enjoy having the local Base Squadron Commanders send Airman/ NCOs to us when we need support (drivers, cooks, instructors etc.) and they need to make up a UTA.  Could this impact that arrangement?

That depends.  Technically speaking support requests for base support to CAP elements is "supposed" to be coordinated up to the SD, then down to the base liason officer (AF type) and then back to the requested unit.  If you have been going direct, whomever takes on that responsability (be it region CAP-USAF person or the "Wing Coordinator") might require you to go thru them despite previous "arrangements"

mk
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: NIN on July 31, 2012, 08:58:48 PM
Quote from: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades.

Seems to happen every 20 years or so.

In the early-to-mid 1970s, as I recall from my (limited) history, there were changes to the National Command/NB structure (ie. "Chairman of the National Board" became the National Commander). In 1994, the HQ underwent the transition to "CAP, Inc" with the changes to HQ staffing, the CAP-USAF relationship, and the Executive Director no longer being the Commander, CAP-USAF.   Now, lookie, 20 years later...
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Eclipse on July 31, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades.

Yeah, and the iPhone 4s was going to change the world.

The average member won't even notice the changes beyond the press releases.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: lordmonar on July 31, 2012, 11:12:45 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades.

Yeah, and the iPhone 4s was going to change the world.

The average member won't even notice the changes beyond the press releases.
Just because the average member does not see a change (which is a good thing BTW) does not mean it will not be a redefining moment (assuming a lot of the rumored changes happen).

Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: BillB on July 31, 2012, 11:47:32 PM
What effect will the CAP-USAF changes have on the Governence report which is supposed to be released in the same time frame?
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: FW on August 01, 2012, 12:57:08 AM
^Good question. If the rumored changes are true, the BoG will be exerting a greater presence in CAP. This board of USAF, CAP and, industry leaders will, IMHO, (indirectly) enable the SECAF to further "influence" the direction of the organization. CAP-USAF's "decreased footprint" and, the addition of the volunteer Wing Coordinators should dovetail with the governance reorganization.
The governance report is completed, the SECAF has made his remarks and, the BoG will meet on Weds. August 22 to finalize their decisions. We will all know the outcome on the 22nd or 23rd at the Annual Conference.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: NIN on August 01, 2012, 12:57:34 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Yeah, and the iPhone 4s was going to change the world.

So was the Segway...
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: NIN on August 01, 2012, 12:58:21 AM
Quote from: FW on August 01, 2012, 12:57:08 AM
The governance report is completed, the SECAF has made his remarks and, the BoG will meet on Weds. August 22 to finalize their decisions. We will all know the outcome on the 22nd or 23rd at the Annual Conference.

Might see all y'all in Baltimore on the 25th. :0
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: RiverAux on August 01, 2012, 04:13:27 PM
Quote from: FW on August 01, 2012, 12:57:08 AM
If the rumored changes are true, the BoG will be exerting a greater presence in CAP. This board of USAF, CAP and, industry leaders will, IMHO, (indirectly) enable the SECAF to further "influence" the direction of the organization. CAP-USAF's "decreased footprint" and, the addition of the volunteer Wing Coordinators should dovetail with the governance reorganization.
Not sure how this makes sense.  How would decreasing the degree of on-the-ground oversight of CAP operations by AF employees dovetail with seizing greater control of high-level CAP decisions?

The loss of the SDs can't help but make it more difficult for the AF to control CAP. 
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: FW on August 01, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
"Air Force Oversight" is the problem of the SECAF down to CAP-USAF. It's not really our problem however, the BoG has already agreed to the new volunteer "wing coordinator" positions. It seems that, with the new governance structure, the AF has decided to let the "corporation" self police more than before; especially with the BoG taking a more proactive role in governing CAP. Just an observation. We'll just have to wait until the "new rules" come to play...
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Ned on August 01, 2012, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: FW on August 01, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
"Air Force Oversight" is the problem of the SECAF down to CAP-USAF. It's not really our problem however, the BoG has already agreed to the new volunteer "wing coordinator" positions. It seems that, with the new governance structure, the AF has decided to let the "corporation" self police more than before; especially with the BoG taking a more proactive role in governing CAP. Just an observation. We'll just have to wait until the "new rules" come to play...

I don't think anybody asked the BoG about the wing coordinator positions, nor do I think that they needed to do so.

Also, although the BoG is nearing some final decisions on the governance issues, the CAP-USAF reorganization is unrelated.  Perhaps parallel is a better word.  It would have occured whether or not the BoG chooses to make changes to our current structure.

As a side note, Col. Gloyd and his folks are considerably more agile as they were able to study the problem, develop a plan, and execute while the BoG is still considering the problem and perhaps preparing to take action.
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: CAPSGT on August 01, 2012, 05:44:29 PM
Ned...always the tease  ;D
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: lordmonar on August 01, 2012, 06:26:53 PM
As FW said.....AF OVERSIGHT as in keeping track of those things the AF wants/needs to keep track of is a CAP-USAF problem.  If they are comfortable with doing it at the "regional" level.....then why should we care?

If in the future the USAF finds that it is not working for them....well they will make adjustments.

Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: FW on August 01, 2012, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: Ned on August 01, 2012, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: FW on August 01, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
"Air Force Oversight" is the problem of the SECAF down to CAP-USAF. It's not really our problem however, the BoG has already agreed to the new volunteer "wing coordinator" positions. It seems that, with the new governance structure, the AF has decided to let the "corporation" self police more than before; especially with the BoG taking a more proactive role in governing CAP. Just an observation. We'll just have to wait until the "new rules" come to play...

I don't think anybody asked the BoG about the wing coordinator positions, nor do I think that they needed to do so.

Also, although the BoG is nearing some final decisions on the governance issues, the CAP-USAF reorganization is unrelated.  Perhaps parallel is a better word.  It would have occured whether or not the BoG chooses to make changes to our current structure.

As a side note, Col. Gloyd and his folks are considerably more agile as they were able to study the problem, develop a plan, and execute while the BoG is still considering the problem and perhaps preparing to take action.

I was only making an observation. The NEC made the move to include Wing Coordinators in CAPR 20-1 after Col Gloyd gave his CAP-USAF reorg. plans to the BoG. Everyone is working together to achieve a successful transition. I don't think there would be any argument here. All parties seem to be in agreement with the new position.

Yes, the two plans may have been worked out in "parallel" however, IMO, CAP-USAF's plan may have been different had the BoG decided to have a "hands off" approach to changing corporate governance. Yes, just another observation... ;D
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: Patterson on August 01, 2012, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades.

The average member won't even notice the changes beyond the press releases.

I remember the last "big change", when press releases stopped being produced by the United States Air Force for the CAP.  We lost a whole lot in the last round of "restructuring", I hope AF takes some direct control back!!
Title: Re: CAP USAF Reorganization AF Reserve Replacement Staffing?
Post by: RogueLeader on August 01, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
Quote from: Patterson on August 01, 2012, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 31, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: Turk on July 24, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
As are we all. Indeed, this August gathering will be CAP's most significant redefining moment in decades.

The average member won't even notice the changes beyond the press releases.

I remember the last "big change", when press releases stopped being produced by the United States Air Force for the CAP.  We lost a whole lot in the last round of "restructuring", I hope AF takes some direct control back!!

From what I heard at RSC, don't bet any money on it, according to Col.Cortum