Looking through the 52-16 and the 50-4, I can't see any requirement for the leadership exam to be completed before the drill test. However, the first paragraph of the drill manual says, "Upon passing the online written test for a Learn to Lead chapter, each cadet must successfully complete a practival test of their proficiency in drill and ceremonies..." It seems like it may have been narrative rather than regulatory and not necessarily meant that we have to go in that order?
It would be very nice, especially with Great Start cadets, to be able to complete their drill test requirements without having to identify whether or not they have passed the leadership test. Can someone find something regulatory saying this can't be done? We have determined we can not enter a drill test result in eServices until after the leadership exam is entered. I'm wondering why something like this would only be documented in CAPT 78-2.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I also can't logically determine how the two things are particularly related.
Sidebar: I wish the photo on the front of the CAPT 78-2 had the C/LtC drilling the flight in a position of attention, that the cadets facial expressions were more uniform, and that all of their hats were on straight.
I would conjecture the academics are considered more important and they want those done first.
Just an opinion, though.
That seems contrary to the direction set on the national website. I think it may be coming from the "old days" when drill tests were at the back of the leadership tests. Now the test booklet is posted online for anyone to see.
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/cadet_achievement_tests__exams.cfm (http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/cadet_achievement_tests__exams.cfm)
"A Cultural Change: Academic knowledge will continue to be an important facet of cadet life. However, the move to online tests will deemphasize the notion that tests are the keys to promotions. Instead, achievement tests will be but one step along the promotion journey; demonstrating leadership skill and maturity in light of CAP's leadership expectations will become the true test for promotion readiness."
I think it comes from the first 'test' with a drill test, the WBA.
When they added drill tests to all of the other achievements, they just did it the same way.
I agree, there is no particular (functional) need to do academic testing, prior to drill testing,
and imho they should remove the restriction.
(it is also my opinion that they should release the command sequence for the WBA drill test and make it public just like the ones for all the achievement drill tests, right now it is controlled material)
QuoteSidebar: I wish the photo on the front of the CAPT 78-2 had the C/LtC drilling the flight in a position of attention, that the cadets facial expressions were more uniform, and that all of their hats were on straight.
I wish the CAPT 78-2 had a C/TSgt drilling the flight,
that is _completely_ phase inappropriate for a C/Lt Col.
It's apparently a cadet competition team, as they have officers and enlisted mixed inside the flight, and are marching without a guide. Not at all sure what they are doing with the other dude on the back side of the flight, either... way to "test" people on "proper drill" but alas :)
/grmbl
I've seen multiple C/Col's be flight commanders at encampments. I don't inherently object to a Phase IV cadet commanding a flight. One of my C/Majors is going to be a flight commander at the CAWG encampment next week.
The Wright Brothers test explicitly says the Drill (Practical) portion can only be done after the written is passed.
Likewise:
Quote from: CAPT 78-2, July 2010, Drill Tests, Paragraph 1, Page 1Upon passing the online written test for a Learn to Lead chapter, each cadet must successfully complete a
practical test of their proficiency in drill and ceremonies, as described in this test booklet, for each
Achievement through the Mitchell Award.
You can split hairs that does not say "shall", or "mandate", or anything like that. But with the precedent set prior, and the milestone being administered in such a way that requires it, that text is pretty clear.
Here's what I tell cadets:
You can do the AE modules in any order you want.
You can only do the drill after you pass the written test portion.
You can do AE, PT, Leadership Written, and CD in any order within the 56 days or however long it takes you to be ready to promote. If you are on the "perfect" schedule, you'll have two scheduled opportunities within the 56 days to complete PT and CD. Otherwise you've got to make arrangements on your own.
We require CD attendance pretty much for every cadet regardless if they have "already done it" for that next promotion. PT is absolutely encouraged, but is also used as a make up time for something else when they need to do something else, as I will come early on most any evening, or even conduct a PT test at a time and place convenient, outside of the meeting, since there is a nice full featured jr. high school right next to me, and many others to choose from in the area.
My point is more that they may not have intended to only mandate it here. I'm not splitting hairs about the wording, as it seems to indicate that they want the written exam completed first. It would be way, way, way more convenient to be able to complete drill test requirements for an entire flight, or all of the C/A1C's in an evening rather than have to always have to make drill tests happen. We have an average attendance of ~50 cadets per meeting. We have enough of a challenge with our review board requirements and the few cadets that are still taking written tests. Again, there is no logical correlation between written exam completion and ability to take a drill test that I can see. I'd like to see them separated out for the Wright Brothers exam, too.
I don't think it matters which comes first, as long as all requirements are met during the achievement period. Some Squadrons have a set date in the training calandar for drill tests based on achievement, others do it as the cadet meets the other requirements or requests the test.
But then next week, you have more that are ready for it. Not every cadet is ready at the same time. If you want to turn it into 56 day mill churning out cadets, then ...
I think all of my cadets with two strips could spend a half hour training with their flight sgt and flt commander and then take the test with most of them passing it. It would be a couple of months until we had another group who needed it and we could do one-offs for anyone out of sync. It would be more efficient than what we're doing now.
I tend to believe that any myth of a 56 day mill churning out cadets is not grounded in reality. If we were effective at getting them through the drill test requirement more smoothly it would lead to more of the ones who are motivated being able to promote more smoothly. Getting in the way of that is likely to be demotivating and harmful. Why should we create a situation where we make it harder for them to promote not because they are not ready or do not know the material but only because of the logistics of providing drill tests to so many cadets.
Consider that with about 60 active cadets, if they were to be promoting every 56 days, given that about 50 have drill test requirements, we would need to provide 6 drill tests per week on average every single week. We have flight training officers (seniors) assigned to each flight to help with PRBs, ensuring testing needs are met, and with making sure drill test opportunities are available, but it's still a management challenge that could be easily simplified.
It's the very first sentence in the Drill Test (CAP Test 78-2) (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAPT_782_Drill_Test_FINAL_0D0A619D59581.pdf) (emphasis added):
Quote from: CAP Test 78-2, Page 1Upon passing the online written test for a Learn to Lead chapter, each cadet must successfully complete a practical test of their proficiency in drill and ceremonies, as described in this test booklet, for each Achievement through the Mitchell Award.
Please don't reply to my thread unless you've at least read the original post. I quoted it in the original post. I'm saying I disagree with it and the place to document testing policy is not in the drill test manual. In other words, it may have been unintended.
Unless the meaning of words has changed, it simply needed restating, because it's not confusing.
Quote from: Ron1319 on June 16, 2012, 10:46:56 AM
Please don't reply to my thread unless you've at least read the original post. I quoted it in the original post. I'm saying I disagree with it and the place to document testing policy is not in the drill test manual. In other words, it may have been unintended.
So what is the point of your post?
You have written direction on how to complete the achievement. Take the written test. If you pass then you can do the performance part of the test.
Nothing too complicated about that.
If you have real problems with this then instead of complaining about it here on CAPTalk maybe you should be expressing your concerns to the Cadet Programs shop at National.
Thay're the only ones who can change this.
Here is my take on it.
It does not matter!
If anyone at NHQ wanted the tests to be administered in a specific order there would be explicit instructions in 52-16.
Yes the test booklet says written first then drill.....okay.....but what harm/reg/law are we breaking if we give the drill test first?
If it works better at your squadron to give drill test first thing at the meeting then follow up with the written....go for it. If it works that you do drill tests on the first Monday and written tests on the third Monday....go for it.
So long as no one is banking tests, so long as their is no test compromise, so long as the tests are all proctored IAW 52-16....I say you are good to go.
This is what is wrong with those who are too tied into the "Regs" and the written word. a) It ain't that big of a deal. b) That which is not forbidden is allowed.
YMMV