I want to check and see if some stuff made it in there. Am I allowed to see it?
CAPR 52-16 Para 3-2
I don't see where it says I may see my record... (I may have missed it, though)
Quotea. Master Record. The unit establishes and maintains an electronic or hard copy master
record for each cadet upon their joining CAP. Units are encouraged to use the online Cadet
Promotions Application (available through eServices) for tracking Cadet Program accomplishments.
Alternatively, the hard copy CAPF 66, Cadet Master Record, may be used in lieu of the Cadet
Promotions Application. Units also may augment the Cadet Promotions Application or CAPF 66
with spreadsheets or databases to track the cadets' accomplishments.
b. Phase Certification Forms. If the unit is not using the online Cadet Promotions
Application to track cadet advancement, each cadet's personnel file must include a CAPF 52 series,
Phase Certification Form (CAPF 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, or 52-4 as appropriate). The CAPF 52 series
forms are temporary records charting a cadet's progress within each phase of the Cadet Program.
When a cadet completes a phase, he or she forwards the completed CAPF 52 to National
Headquarters for validation and processing of the milestone award. In contrast, the Cadet Promotions
Application software automatically processes milestone awards, negating the need for maintaining
and transmitting a hard copy CAPF 52.12 CAPR 52-16 EFFECTIVE 1 FEBRUARY 2011
c. Inspecting & Transmitting Cadet Records. Cadets and their parents may inspect their
personnel files at any time. Personnel files will be freely given to the gaining unit commander if the
cadet transfers units. During a transfer, the old and new commanders must ensure the cadet's records
are complete and up-to-date. Commanders must ensure all records are treated in accordance with
CAPR 10-2, Files Maintenance and Records Disposition, and CAPR 39-2, Civil Air Patrol
Membership. If the unit has been using the Cadet Promotions Application, the cadet's new
commander will automatically receive access to that data when National Headquarters processes the
transfer. However, those units still need to forward the CAPF 15 membership application signed by
the cadet's parent or guardian, plus any other records that have been kept in hard copy.
d. Problem Records. Occasionally, cadet records are found to be incomplete, especially if a
cadet transfers units or new leaders take charge of a squadron. In such instances, the new commander
should attempt to contact the cadet's previous leaders to obtain help in clarifying the record. If that
option is not available, the new commander may exercise discretion in reconstructing the cadet's
record as best as possible, recording approximate dates for completing tests, achievements, and the
like. Cadets are not to be penalized for a senior staff's poor recordkeeping, but commanders must
take reasonable steps to uphold the integrity of cadet awards. In no circumstance may a unit
commander backdate a Mitchell, Earhart, Eaker, or Spaatz Award.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 04, 2012, 02:57:06 PM
I don't see where it says I may see my record... (I may have missed it, though)
Quotea. Master Record. The unit establishes and maintains an electronic or hard copy master
record for each cadet upon their joining CAP. Units are encouraged to use the online Cadet
Promotions Application (available through eServices) for tracking Cadet Program accomplishments.
Alternatively, the hard copy CAPF 66, Cadet Master Record, may be used in lieu of the Cadet
Promotions Application. Units also may augment the Cadet Promotions Application or CAPF 66
with spreadsheets or databases to track the cadets' accomplishments.
b. Phase Certification Forms. If the unit is not using the online Cadet Promotions
Application to track cadet advancement, each cadet's personnel file must include a CAPF 52 series,
Phase Certification Form (CAPF 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, or 52-4 as appropriate). The CAPF 52 series
forms are temporary records charting a cadet's progress within each phase of the Cadet Program.
When a cadet completes a phase, he or she forwards the completed CAPF 52 to National
Headquarters for validation and processing of the milestone award. In contrast, the Cadet Promotions
Application software automatically processes milestone awards, negating the need for maintaining
and transmitting a hard copy CAPF 52.12 CAPR 52-16 EFFECTIVE 1 FEBRUARY 2011
c. Inspecting & Transmitting Cadet Records. Cadets and their parents may inspect their
personnel files at any time. Personnel files will be freely given to the gaining unit commander if the
cadet transfers units. During a transfer, the old and new commanders must ensure the cadet's records
are complete and up-to-date. Commanders must ensure all records are treated in accordance with
CAPR 10-2, Files Maintenance and Records Disposition, and CAPR 39-2, Civil Air Patrol
Membership. If the unit has been using the Cadet Promotions Application, the cadet's new
commander will automatically receive access to that data when National Headquarters processes the
transfer. However, those units still need to forward the CAPF 15 membership application signed by
the cadet's parent or guardian, plus any other records that have been kept in hard copy.
d. Problem Records. Occasionally, cadet records are found to be incomplete, especially if a
cadet transfers units or new leaders take charge of a squadron. In such instances, the new commander
should attempt to contact the cadet's previous leaders to obtain help in clarifying the record. If that
option is not available, the new commander may exercise discretion in reconstructing the cadet's
record as best as possible, recording approximate dates for completing tests, achievements, and the
like. Cadets are not to be penalized for a senior staff's poor recordkeeping, but commanders must
take reasonable steps to uphold the integrity of cadet awards. In no circumstance may a unit
commander backdate a Mitchell, Earhart, Eaker, or Spaatz Award.
Thanks!
Well, you can see the personnel file, you just can't see the secret files we keep on you, showing all your facebook data, secret background checks, and DNA tests. Of course, most Seniors have been instructed to deny these files exist, if we felt that they were cleared to know about them at all.
In fact, its a really good idea to browse your "201" file to make sure that there are no errors or emissions, and to have an idea of where to go next in your track. This naturally applies to Seniors and Cadets. Keep paper copies of everything in case the system decides to delete you ( kill a few trees!) "Buff" up your paper file with the documentation you may need at a later time, especially if you expect a break in service ( membership) since your original records could well be purged, and many things could potentially be carried back when you rejoin.
Major Lord
p.s. There are people who will kill you if you call it a "201" file!
Generally the only reason a Personnel Officer would not want to show you the file is because it has not been maintained properly, which is neither and excuse, nor justification to bar access.
I've heard all sorts of bizarre justification for not letting a member, especially cadets, access a file, or hand carry it for a transfer, etc. None of them fly.
There isn't supposed to be anything in the file that the member is not aware of, so why would anyone say "no"?
Quote from: Major Lord on June 04, 2012, 04:20:21 PM
Well, you can see the personnel file, you just can't see the secret files we keep on you, showing all your facebook data, secret background checks, and DNA tests. Of course, most Seniors have been instructed to deny these files exist, if we felt that they were cleared to know about them at all.
In fact, its a really good idea to browse your "201" file to make sure that there are no errors or emissions, and to have an idea of where to go next in your track. This naturally applies to Seniors and Cadets. Keep paper copies of everything in case the system decides to delete you ( kill a few trees!) "Buff" up your paper file with the documentation you may need at a later time, especially if you expect a break in service ( membership) since your original records could well be purged, and many things could potentially be carried back when you rejoin.
Major Lord
p.s. There are people who will kill you if you call it a "201" file!
Yeah, those radioactive files can be a real problem. ;D
Besides maintaining your own personal personnel files, keep all originals. When you provide paperwork to the unit, give them only copies, keep the originals for your records. A good Personnel Officer should give you an opportunity to review your records on a regular basis. I used to recommend the birth month or the anniversary of joining.
If you do review your file, don't necessarily expect to left alone with it or to be able to take it home. It is too easy, and may be too tempting for some member to slip something in or out of the file.
I had a member review his file without anyone else present, per the cc's direction, and I got it back noticeably thicker. Said member soon left the unit without asking for his file.
I just want to see if Something was actually put in it.
LORs, disciplinary actions, special notes, etc., should not be in there unless the member is aware.
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Then you ask the cc to see it.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 05, 2012, 04:46:08 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Then you ask the cc to see it.
Not gunna happen.
1. The cabinet is still locked
2. It took a month to get him to sign a simple form and my parents going "WTF dude." This would be to complex for him.
Your opinion expressed in #2 is probably best kept to yourself and not on a public forum. And you wonder why you have problems. ::)
+1 - dare we ask what is so important?
Even if you can and do see your file, you can not add anything, or take out anything you want. You may object to something there, and dispute it, but the commander my order it stays in place, or orders it removed if improperly added.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 05, 2012, 05:11:31 AM
+1 - dare we ask what is so important?
To see if someone lied to me. Again, if I may add.
I had a grandparent ( Guardian of a Cadet) snatch a Form 50 from a Cadet's personnel file when he was left unattended. Part of an episode that ended badly. I don't worry too much about Cadets, but the "little League" parents can be a major PITA! ( FYI, not to be sconfused with PETA, or "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals" of which I am a proud member!)
Major Lord
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Your Personnel Officer didn't decide not to show up. She's currently in Seattle for her job and should be back in a few days. She should be at the next meeting. Since last week was a holiday-No meeting, you have only lost a couple of days in your request.
Quote from: MSG Mac on June 05, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Your Personnel Officer didn't decide not to show up. She's currently in Seattle for her job and should be back in a few days. She should be at the next meeting. Since last week was a holiday-No meeting, you have only lost a couple of days in your request.
I am (obviously) not privy to her personal details. I have no problem with people missing meetings. "decided not to show up" is just what I say. Personal jargon, if you will.
I DO, however, have a problem when there is one person with a key. The thing needs to be accessed every meeting, shouldn't several other people have the key so the meeting doesn't grind to a halt?
Quote from: PA Guy on June 05, 2012, 05:04:21 AM
Your opinion expressed in #2 is probably best kept to yourself and not on a public forum. And you wonder why you have problems. ::)
To the OP, PA Guy is giving you some quality advice right there. You can express your disdain for the Senior Member staff (and their abilities) at your squadron in a public forum such as this, but you do so at your own risk. If I were the Personnel Officer at your squadron, and got wind of your posting, it might slow your CAP career down to a crawl for a bit as I crossed all the 'I's" and dotted all the "T's", and then fixed what was incorrectly recorded, and then double- and triple-checked the forms for accuracy, and then ... Hey, just doing my job. See "malicious compliance". BTST.
Good luck to you.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on June 05, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Your Personnel Officer didn't decide not to show up. She's currently in Seattle for her job and should be back in a few days. She should be at the next meeting. Since last week was a holiday-No meeting, you have only lost a couple of days in your request.
I am (obviously) not privy to her personal details. I have no problem with people missing meetings. "decided not to show up" is just what I say. Personal jargon, if you will.
I DO, however, have a problem when there is one person with a key. The thing needs to be accessed every meeting, shouldn't several other people have the key so the meeting doesn't grind to a halt?
Yes there definetly should be more than 1 key. When I was there the Personnel Officer and Commander were the key holders. I hope they got Captain M's key when he stepped down.
I have no idea if they did sir. I can only infer the conclusion they didn't because we only have one key.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on June 05, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Your Personnel Officer didn't decide not to show up. She's currently in Seattle for her job and should be back in a few days. She should be at the next meeting. Since last week was a holiday-No meeting, you have only lost a couple of days in your request.
I am (obviously) not privy to her personal details. I have no problem with people missing meetings. "decided not to show up" is just what I say. Personal jargon, if you will.
I DO, however, have a problem when there is one person with a key. The thing needs to be accessed every meeting, shouldn't several other people have the key so the meeting doesn't grind to a halt?
When you use the ::) you are showing your disdain.
I meant that as rolling my eyes at the fact we only have one key.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on June 05, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 05, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 04, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
It's as simple as asking your personnel officer.
except when the ONE person with the key doesn't decide to show up. ::)
I didn't get to see if it was in there.
Your Personnel Officer didn't decide not to show up. She's currently in Seattle for her job and should be back in a few days. She should be at the next meeting. Since last week was a holiday-No meeting, you have only lost a couple of days in your request.
I am (obviously) not privy to her personal details. I have no problem with people missing meetings. "decided not to show up" is just what I say. Personal jargon, if you will.
I DO, however, have a problem when there is one person with a key. The thing needs to be accessed every meeting, shouldn't several other people have the key so the meeting doesn't grind to a halt?
You need your records to run your meeting?
It is, of course, smart to have multiple keys so other can get access if the personnel officer is not there.
Bottom line.......you do have the right to see your records. Just be patiant.