Can we were berets instead of a squadron hat because our squadron hats look weird with Bright red we kinda look like the Elmo squadron . I was thinking red Berets with our squadron patch on the front...
Please answer
Clearly a joke or bait!
Do you normally wear the BDU cap or some sort of red baseball cap? 8)
Quote from: 754837 on May 08, 2012, 12:37:32 AM
Clearly a joke or bait!
Could be a legitimate question from somebody who is very new to CAP. Benefit of the doubt. But red berets? ftp://
No, the Squadron Commander could not authorize a red beret for wear.
From CAPM 39-1, the Uniform Manual:
Quote3. BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.
4. CAP Baseball Cap: May be worn with the utility uniforms if authorized by the unit commander.
The color, material, unit designation, or silk screen organizational emblem or badge will be
prescribed by the unit commander. Emblem or badge, if authorized, will be centered 1/2 inch above
visor.
page 41
Wing commander may authorize a beret for special purpose wear, however, it must be blue.
The wing commander is also not likely to authorize it for just your squadron to wear just because you don't like your hat.
If this is a legit question then I was wrong in my first post.
BDU/BBDU patrol/baseball cap, or squadron cap. If you go to NBB, wonderful. Wear it all you want after that. Why would you wear a red cap anyway if you look like "The elmo squadron"?
Quote from: rick98 on May 08, 2012, 12:33:43 AM
Can we wear berets instead of a squadron hat...red Berets with our squadron patch on the front...
Negative, Ghostrider.
And, when they are worn, berets typically have a flash. Unless it is really tiny, a squadron patch wouldn't fit.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 08, 2012, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: rick98 on May 08, 2012, 12:33:43 AM
Can we wear berets instead of a squadron hat...red Berets with our squadron patch on the front...
And, when they are worn, berets typically have a flash. Unless it is really tiny, a squadron patch wouldn't fit.
I'm not sure about that. The flash that goes on a green beret seems to be roughly the same size of the average squadron patch.
(http://onthescene.msnbc.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/06/conner.jpg)
Quote from: Nathan on May 08, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 08, 2012, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: rick98 on May 08, 2012, 12:33:43 AM
Can we wear berets instead of a squadron hat...red Berets with our squadron patch on the front...
And, when they are worn, berets typically have a flash. Unless it is really tiny, a squadron patch wouldn't fit.
I'm not sure about that. The flash that goes on a green beret seems to be roughly the same size of the average squadron patch.
I think most flashes are somewhat shorter than most squadron patches and are certainly not as wide. I don't have one of my berets here at the office to measure. Regardless, a red beret won't fly.
But it'd be just like Red Dawn!
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 08, 2012, 08:43:06 PMI think most flashes are somewhat shorter than most squadron patches and are certainly not as wide. I don't have one of my berets here at the office to measure.
I'd say by about 1/2 - a unit insignia should be about 3.5 to 4 inches tall.
All berets in the Army use the same size flashes, just different colors for different units. And I can tell from my squadron patch and my black beret from the Army, they are a massive difference in size. I just wish I still had my black beret from the Army to take a picture for you.
The way berets are done in INWG for GTMs is cadet enlisted wear the cadet enlisted hat device, cadet officers wear their full size rank, and senior members wear the SM hat device. It looks good. But I really don't think it would even look good on any other color of beret.
Back WIWABS in the '70s, I wore a red beret. It was awful, because it was so garish, and the model the BSA used didn't even have a "stiffener" in it, that I remember.
As many CT colleagues know, I do like berets and cannot understand why they're so polarising in the US services - either they're viewed as "elite only" or "they're terrible."
I do agree that blue is the only reasonably good-looking colour for us, though no doubt there are advocates for grey. ::)
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 08, 2012, 11:35:15 PMThe way berets are done in INWG for GTMs is cadet enlisted wear the cadet enlisted hat device, cadet officers wear their full size rank, and senior members wear the SM hat device. It looks good. But I really don't think it would even look good on any other color of beret.
I've gone around with Sinn on this as well, but for the life of me I don't see the point.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 08, 2012, 11:53:35 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 08, 2012, 11:35:15 PMThe way berets are done in INWG for GTMs is cadet enlisted wear the cadet enlisted hat device, cadet officers wear their full size rank, and senior members wear the SM hat device. It looks good. But I really don't think it would even look good on any other color of beret.
I've gone around with Sinn on this as well, but for the life of me I don't see the point.
With which part?
Berets in INWG.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 09, 2012, 12:34:20 AM
Berets in INWG.
So far as I understand it, it is authorizable by wing kings, and it has been around as long as I can remember.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 12:52:18 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 09, 2012, 12:34:20 AM
Berets in INWG.
So far as I understand it, it is authorizable by wing kings, and it has been around as long as I can remember.
I understand the
how, just not the
why.
It may be a pride thing, or distinction. But either way, from what I can tell, he promotes it. It is a cool thing, especially for the cadets. So don't argue it.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
So don't argue it.
LMAO...you're asking captalk not to argue about one of the most controversial things in cap? Really good luck with that.
Quote from: NCRblues on May 09, 2012, 01:26:11 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
So don't argue it.
LMAO...you're asking captalk not to argue about one of the most controversial things in cap? Really good luck with that.
+1
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
It may be a pride thing, or distinction. But either way, from what I can tell, he promotes it. It is a cool thing, especially for the cadets. So don't argue it.
Ah, I got it. If it's cool, you shouldn't question it.
Got it.
Wait. I have to reformat my DDR program now...
Quote from: Nathan on May 09, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
It may be a pride thing, or distinction. But either way, from what I can tell, he promotes it. It is a cool thing, especially for the cadets. So don't argue it.
Ah, I got it. If it's cool, you shouldn't question it.
Got it.
Wait. I have to reformat my DDR program now...
Absolutely the worst comparison and comment you could make.
Essentially you just said that drugs are cool, and you have to change your DDR program because of it. I know it was a joke, but horrible taste.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 07:22:24 PM
Quote from: Nathan on May 09, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
It may be a pride thing, or distinction. But either way, from what I can tell, he promotes it. It is a cool thing, especially for the cadets. So don't argue it.
Ah, I got it. If it's cool, you shouldn't question it.
Got it.
Wait. I have to reformat my DDR program now...
Absolutely the worst comparison and comment you could make.
Essentially you just said that drugs are cool, and you have to change your DDR program because of it. I know it was a joke, but horrible taste.
Interpret it how you will. But you can't really turn your statement around back on me.
The point I was making as that the PERCEPTION of drugs is that they are cool by many teenagers (duh). If I have a duty to accept something, like a silly hat, as being okay just because a bunch of teenagers enjoy it and think it's cool, then that poses some problems for me and my DDR program, doesn't it?
The last argument anyone should try to make that because something is considered cool, then it should also be considered okay. Which is the argument YOU made. Not me.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on May 08, 2012, 09:06:11 PM
But it'd be just like Red Dawn!
They all died.
In the long run Berets are more expensive, require more maintenance, and CAP found out when berets were authorized for women in the 70's no one wears them in auniform manner.
Quote from: Nathan on May 09, 2012, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 07:22:24 PM
Quote from: Nathan on May 09, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 01:12:44 AM
It may be a pride thing, or distinction. But either way, from what I can tell, he promotes it. It is a cool thing, especially for the cadets. So don't argue it.
Ah, I got it. If it's cool, you shouldn't question it.
Got it.
Wait. I have to reformat my DDR program now...
Absolutely the worst comparison and comment you could make.
Essentially you just said that drugs are cool, and you have to change your DDR program because of it. I know it was a joke, but horrible taste.
Interpret it how you will. But you can't really turn your statement around back on me.
The point I was making as that the PERCEPTION of drugs is that they are cool by many teenagers (duh). If I have a duty to accept something, like a silly hat, as being okay just because a bunch of teenagers enjoy it and think it's cool, then that poses some problems for me and my DDR program, doesn't it?
The last argument anyone should try to make that because something is considered cool, then it should also be considered okay. Which is the argument YOU made. Not me.
No. Because the one is legal (assuming that they convince their wing commander to sign off on it) and the other is illegal.
So....it is an apples and oranges comparison.
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
No, you compared the cool factor of a hat to the cool factor of a mind and life altering and ending substance.
A beret is a hat, and drugs are life wreckers. Plain and simple.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 11:28:46 PM
No, you compared the cool factor of a hat to the cool factor of a mind and life altering and ending substance.
A beret is a hat, and drugs are life wreckers. Plain and simple.
So are cigarettes (until 18) and alcohol (until 21). Unless you go overseas, and some numbers change, including what substances are allowed.
He made a good point on the logic you used. No reason to try to make this into a fight over something it isn't.
Friends don't let friends wear berets...
Quote from: ol'fido on May 09, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
(http://www.sterlingleather.com/productimages/product_8016_112_31_35.jpg) (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
Now I could make that look good! >:D
I would tend to equate the cool factor of berets as somewhere along the lines of wearing baggy pants that show off you drawers.
Hey you kids! Pull up your pants, buy a belt, take that stupid looking hat off, and get off my lawn! >:D
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 09, 2012, 11:28:46 PM
No, you compared the cool factor of a hat to the cool factor of a mind and life altering and ending substance.
A beret is a hat, and drugs are life wreckers. Plain and simple.
Are you making an appeal to emotion? The legality or effects have absolutely nothing to do with the argument either of us made.
You said this: Teenagers think it's cool, so don't question my opinion.
I said this: Teenagers think drugs are cool, so we must therefore not be able to question their opinion either.
You're absolutely right that we're comparing two things that have drastically different consequences, but the logic used to try and justify drug use is the EXACT same logic you just tried to use to justify the wear of a beret. Sure, wearing a beret isn't terrible, but many people tend to argue the same thing about marijuana. The argument you made was a bad one, and I illustrated that by putting it in a situation that's hard to brush off.
I was only pointing out that there is no logical connection here:
It's cool, therefore don't question.
If you want to argue that there IS a logical connection, you're more than welcome to do so. But don't act like I'm endorsing the use of drugs or that I'm being horribly insensitive to the destruction that drug use can have on an individual's life. ::)
Quote from: Al Sayre on May 10, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
I would tend to equate the cool factor of berets as somewhere along the lines of wearing baggy pants that show off you drawers.
Hey you kids! Pull up your pants, buy a belt, take that stupid looking hat off, and get off my lawn! >:D
Yep......it is an opinion thing....because we are looking from our point of view and not the from the point of view of those who think it is cool.
The point about "don't argue about it".....comes from the point that those commanders who do authorise it are doing so because it works for them. Unless you are specifically affected by that chain of command......just let it drop.
I don't bother telling each and every baggy pants wearing guy or gal that they look stupid....because that's my opinion....and it is not like I got to wear my pants down by my knees.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 10, 2012, 05:14:42 PMThe point about "don't argue about it".....comes from the point that those commanders who do authorise it are doing so because it works for them. Unless you are specifically affected by that chain of command......just let it drop.
That's the problem, though, these situations are not self-contained. These members show up to missions and activities in other wings, and occasionally
have "issues", and / or we get the "well they do it..." nonsense.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 10, 2012, 05:29:49 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 10, 2012, 05:14:42 PMThe point about "don't argue about it".....comes from the point that those commanders who do authorise it are doing so because it works for them. Unless you are specifically affected by that chain of command......just let it drop.
That's the problem, though, these situations are not self-contained. These members show up to missions and activities in other wings, and occasionally
have "issues", and / or we get the "well they do it..." nonsense.
So.....is that REALLY a problem? I get that all the time. My cadets come back from another wing's encampment and they say "well in XXWG they do this and that"......I respond "well.....welcome back to Nellis Comp Squadron and NVWG".
Problem solved.
If you really feel what they are doing is "wrong" or if it is really causing problems....then follow up via the chain of command and get it changed. But belittleing people for what they like is just stupid.......I have stopped worrying about what other wings and units do......I got enough problems.
Quote from: Al Sayre on May 10, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
I would tend to equate the cool factor of berets as somewhere along the lines of wearing baggy pants that show off you drawers.
Hey you kids! Pull up your pants, buy a belt, take that stupid looking hat off, and get off my lawn! >:D
I have heard that some recruits show up to Basic Training like that...oh, to be a fly on the wall to hear the MTI's/CC's/RC's/DS's/DI's apply the gentle hand of correction. >:D
Quote from: lordmonar on May 10, 2012, 05:58:52 PM
But belittleing people for what they like is just stupid.......I have stopped worrying about what other wings and units do......I got enough problems.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: SarDragon on May 10, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 09, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
(http://www.sterlingleather.com/productimages/product_8016_112_31_35.jpg) (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
Now I could make that look good! >:D
I bet you could, Dave. ;)
Quote from: ol'fido on May 10, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 10, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 09, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
(http://www.sterlingleather.com/productimages/product_8016_112_31_35.jpg) (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
Now I could make that look good! >:D
I bet you could, Dave. ;)
I'd wear that over a beret any day!
Quote from: indygreg on May 11, 2012, 01:30:54 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 10, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 10, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 09, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
(http://www.sterlingleather.com/productimages/product_8016_112_31_35.jpg) (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
Now I could make that look good! >:D
I bet you could, Dave. ;)
I'd wear that over a beret any day!
That would get pretty uncomfortable I would guess.
wearing both at the same time. >:D
I'm not funny.
I'd wear that over a beret any day!
[/quote]
That would get pretty uncomfortable I would guess.
wearing both at the same time. >:D
I'm not funny.
[/quote]
Hey now! I chuckled at that! ;)
Grr. Disregard my n00bness on this quote stuff.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 09, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
So....it is an apples and oranges comparison.
Sometimes we fail to see the big picture...apples and oranges are both fruit... ;)
IMHO I would love to see berets used in an across the board, uniform way with clear cut standards for its wear, the equipment to be worn on it, and for how its to be earned/awarded/given. I don't see it as being an elite vs. non-elite way. If you want to see it that way...thats your problem, not mine.
YMMV
Quote from: commando1 on May 11, 2012, 03:42:05 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 09, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
So....it is an apples and oranges comparison.
Sometimes we fail to see the big picture...apples and oranges are both fruit... ;)
IMHO I would love to see berets used in an across the board, uniform way with clear cut standards for its wear, the equipment to be worn on it, and for how its to be earned/awarded/given. I don't see it as being an elite vs. non-elite way. If you want to see it that way...thats your problem, not mine.
YMMV
;) ;)
I agree.
In my world ;D the beret would be for currently qualified ground team members.
There would be a standard cloth CAP beret flash (basic flash shape blue background, yellow boarder with white triangle with prop).
The NBB members would have a cloth St Albans flash.
HMRS rangers can have a PAWG keystone flash (black background with red keystone) and they can put their ranger rateings as an arc over the flash (ala US Army Rangers).
Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2012, 04:24:14 PM
Quote from: commando1 on May 11, 2012, 03:42:05 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 09, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
So....it is an apples and oranges comparison.
Sometimes we fail to see the big picture...apples and oranges are both fruit... ;)
IMHO I would love to see berets used in an across the board, uniform way with clear cut standards for its wear, the equipment to be worn on it, and for how its to be earned/awarded/given. I don't see it as being an elite vs. non-elite way. If you want to see it that way...thats your problem, not mine.
YMMV
;) ;)
I agree.
In my world ;D the beret would be for currently qualified ground team members.
There would be a standard cloth CAP beret flash (basic flash shape blue background, yellow boarder with white triangle with prop).
The NBB members would have a cloth St Albans flash.
HMRS rangers can have a PAWG keystone flash (black background with red keystone) and they can put their ranger rateings as an arc over the flash (ala US Army Rangers).
Ugh.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2012, 04:24:14 PM
Quote from: commando1 on May 11, 2012, 03:42:05 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 09, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
So....it is an apples and oranges comparison.
Sometimes we fail to see the big picture...apples and oranges are both fruit... ;)
IMHO I would love to see berets used in an across the board, uniform way with clear cut standards for its wear, the equipment to be worn on it, and for how its to be earned/awarded/given. I don't see it as being an elite vs. non-elite way. If you want to see it that way...thats your problem, not mine.
YMMV
;) ;)
I agree.
In my world ;D the beret would be for currently qualified ground team members.
There would be a standard cloth CAP beret flash (basic flash shape blue background, yellow boarder with white triangle with prop).
The NBB members would have a cloth St Albans flash.
HMRS rangers can have a PAWG keystone flash (black background with red keystone) and they can put their ranger rateings as an arc over the flash (ala US Army Rangers).
Hey. I wouldn't mind that. NBB should keep the metal flash, though. It looks good. :D And maybe extend general use of the beret. I think it should be an optional item, and those who go to blue beret or HRMS would wear their respective flashes. That's all for me, though. ::)
Quote from: Levilockling on May 11, 2012, 07:13:20 PM
Hey. I wouldn't mind that. NBB should keep the metal flash, though. It looks good. :D And maybe extend general use of the beret. I think it should be an optional item, and those who go to blue beret or HRMS would wear their respective flashes. That's all for me, though. ::)
The problem IMHO with the metal St Albans crest is that you can't pin your rank over it.....so we keep our uniforms more in line with AD uniforms.
Quote from: tsrup on May 11, 2012, 02:47:10 AM
Quote from: indygreg on May 11, 2012, 01:30:54 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 10, 2012, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on May 10, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on May 09, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
Since we are so divided on the beret thing, maybe we could try these....
(http://www.sterlingleather.com/productimages/product_8016_112_31_35.jpg) (http://www.cavenders.com/product.asp?cat=6&dept_id=4508&pf_id=S0475AGG)
TX wing and the surrounding area would probably sign off on it and Cyborg would love it since it's grey. >:D
Now I could make that look good! >:D
I bet you could, Dave. ;)
I'd wear that over a beret any day!
That would get pretty uncomfortable I would guess.
wearing both at the same time. >:D
I'm not funny.
OK. You got me.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2012, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: Levilockling on May 11, 2012, 07:13:20 PM
Hey. I wouldn't mind that. NBB should keep the metal flash, though. It looks good. :D And maybe extend general use of the beret. I think it should be an optional item, and those who go to blue beret or HRMS would wear their respective flashes. That's all for me, though. ::)
The problem IMHO with the metal St Albans crest is that you can't pin your rank over it.....so we keep our uniforms more in line with AD uniforms.
Touché... It would give us distinction though. Despite the fact that the vast majority of the military is no longer in BDU's, AD may still find that a group of people in berets and BDU's could be some special division. As if we didn't have
enough distinction, though. ::)
Also, I'd extend the use of a beret to dress uniforms. Also keeping with AD use. :D
Quote from: Levilockling on May 11, 2012, 10:20:19 PMAlso, I'd extend the use of a beret to dress uniforms. Also keeping with AD use. :D
+1
In 4 days we go completely off track. The wonders of CapTalk ::)
Quote from: Cashboy on May 11, 2012, 11:01:35 PM
In 4 days we go completely of track. The wonders of CapTalk ::)
off.
We always do this, look at any thread. Most forums get off topic by the third or fourth page
Sounds like a decent idea to me. But if USAF does have some sort of issue with distinction with us using cloth flashes on the beret appease them with putting CAP cutouts on the flash for everyone. It really wouldn't look bad either.
Has anyone else on here caught o to the fact that the OP has made exactly one post?
I'm starting to think that 754837 was right in the beginning.
Quote from: Cashboy on May 12, 2012, 11:16:54 AM
I'm starting to think that 754837 was right in the beginning.
To quote that eminent scholar and steely eyed auxiliaryman, SarDragon, "Ya Think?".