We have an online delivery for the Basic Officer, SLS, and the CLC. Why don't we have an online UCC?
You can't learn to be a commander online. You can learn the technical administrative stuff, but not command bearing and attitude.
I am not a fan of doing professional development like this, it's basically just checking the box and misses the point, which is the interaction
between peers.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:40:30 PM
You can't learn to be a commander online. You can learn the technical administrative stuff, but not command bearing and attitude.
I am not a fan of doing professional development like this, it's basically just checking the box and misses the point, which is the interaction
between peers.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well to be honest I think there's value in both online and in-person professional development. As Eclipse noted, there are great benefits to be derived from networking, sharing ideas, and learning soft skills at in-residence PD. However, I think a lot of our in-residence PD could be augmented or shortened by offering more of the technical, administrative, regulatory, etc. information via e-courses.
Just as in the military, I have online training, annual recurring e-classes, and even distance PME courses via the web which are at some point reinforced and strengthened by in-residence PME. Neither is wrong, but time spent during the in-residence stuff is maximized when everybody has taken certain distance/e-courses before attending. You can spend less classroom time on dry lecture and building everyone up to a common level of knowledge and can instead focus more on the sharing, collaborating, networking, debating, answering questions/solving issues, and soft skills building. The right balance of the two makes PD more accessible and more effective.
Our PD might be better augmented by a pre-requisite e-course for each major PD course. In other words, before you can attend in-residence OBC, SLS, CLC, UCC, or TLC you would be required to complete an online class that covers introductory and base-level knowledge that will augment and lay a foundation for what will be taught in-residence. I could even see the value of a more comprehensive e-course as a pre-requisite for RSC and NSC.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:40:30 PM
You can't learn to be a commander online.
I think you're correct to a certain degree. But I think you could say that about a classroom also. You learn to command by commanding.
This school will endeavor to show students specific areas which require command emphasis, to provide basic management skills, and to show command relationships which take place both vertically and laterally. Students will learn about processes to solve problems, save time, and keep the focus on the mission.I like Pylon's statement that
balancing the types of delivery could be more effective.
The problem with CAP online stuff is that it is generally the only PD, not just a supplement.
CAP members don't usually have a full baseline of training and expectations to fall back on, so if the only thing members are exposed to
is the academic and administrative side of running things, they are likely to struggle.
Though even saying that, having commanders and staff who are at least fully versed on regs and best practices would be a step in the right direction.
As it stands today, a lot of in-face PD ain't all that hot, either, and if you sit quietly in the last row, yo can ticket-punch without ever learning much.
The online stuff does provide a national thread and consistency, but sometimes that thread will clash with members who don't operate the same way because they have never done the same classes. There's always some guy who wants to argue WIWAC, WIWAD, BITD, etc., and you can't correct
that stuff through a screen.
National or Regional schools for this stuff would be better across the board, including requiring existing members to catch-up, but as of today, most wings don't even require UCC to be a commander.
Quote from: jjmalott on April 10, 2012, 07:25:02 PMYou learn to command by commanding.
It's too late to start learning once you've got the badge.
You learn to be a good commander by first being a good follower and paying attention to the right mentors.
great insight gentlemen!
I'd do a in-person UCC if it was offered. I've been waiting years. I'd do an online version today if offered.
Quote from: Thrashed on April 10, 2012, 09:09:48 PM
I'd do a in-person UCC if it was offered. I've been waiting years. I'd do an online version today if offered.
Well, I guess that's a huge part of the expectations - I'd agree it's not fair to expect people to participate
if they are never offered, and in those cases anything is better than "none". My wing had them about once a year until the Wing CC
started mandating them for commanders, at which time we started to see them several times a year.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:40:30 PM
You can't learn to be a commander online. You can learn the technical administrative stuff, but not command bearing and attitude.
I am not a fan of doing professional development like this, it's basically just checking the box and misses the point, which is the interaction
between peers.
You can't learn that in two days in a classroom, either. Not that I am disagreeing with you - I am not in favor of the trend away from face-to-face intstruction in so many things. But be realistic, you won't learn "command bearing and attitude" in two days of CAP class.
I like the new UCC material. Having core topics and a choice of elective topics allows some flexibility, so the course can be tweaked depending on students or instructors.
Quote from: AirDX on April 11, 2012, 12:13:06 AMBut be realistic, you won't learn "command bearing and attitude" in two days of CAP class.
The big part of UCC is networking with other Commanders. UCC also gives you great ideals on what you should be doing.
Two days is better than nothing. i.e. a housewife with Cadets in the program becomes the Squadron Commander. Do you think she has any ideal what to do besides attending meetings? How about the former military guy who was an E-4 twenty years ago and now is a handyman. You think he got the leadership thing down?
I view this online thread about the UCC as an avenue to get great ideas on what I should be doing. It's also better than nothing!
Quote from: AirDX on April 11, 2012, 12:13:06 AM
You can't learn that in two days in a classroom, either.[snip]..But be realistic, you won't learn "command bearing and attitude" in two days of CAP class.
Probably 99 out of 100 members will agree with that statement, BUT:
Most people are never really exposed to ANY structured leadership ideas - ever. Sure, some people may be managers, or even "responsible for" others at their jobs, families, etc, but most people have never held a true leadership position. Especially with the wild animal that is a volunteer member.
You can't expect a "yes sir" in CAP all the time, but you also can't allow "I'll do it when I do it" either. There's a middle ground, and a lot of that may or may not be in the books, but it certainly comes from experienced command staff and instructors.
The few times during college that I've had a chance to go to a CAP meeting at my old unit, the ride back home with the Squadron Commander was probably worth MONTHS of regular meetings as a cadet. The discussions we had on how he runs a squadron and motivates people who don't have to be there were quite eye opening and really fascinating.
At least to a 20 year old kid.
I'm in agreement with the comments that I'd love to do an in-class course if available to avail myself of others' experiences. It took a long time for me to have the opportunity to do SLS, and when I did it was a 3 hour drive away. CLC again took a long time to get and I was very fortunate to be able to do it online. Otherwise it might have been another 2 or 3 years down the road. If and when UCC ever goes online, I'll be among the first to sign up.
Quote from: Pylon on April 10, 2012, 07:17:57 PM
Our PD might be better augmented by a pre-requisite e-course for each major PD course. In other words, before you can attend in-residence OBC, SLS, CLC, UCC, or TLC you would be required to complete an online class that covers introductory and base-level knowledge that will augment and lay a foundation for what will be taught in-residence. I could even see the value of a more comprehensive e-course as a pre-requisite for RSC and NSC.
I really like that idea.
The UCC class should be given to any member who wishes to become a commander. We require the course after a person has been appointed instead of requiring the training prior to an appointment. All deputy commanders and any officers wishing, should take an on line course and then receive the 2 day course after completing the first part. Even wing vice commanders or officers wing who desire to become future wing commanders should take the region and wing commanders course prior to selection as wing commander. It like taking off in an airplane before taking flight training on how to fly a plane. Changes are you can start out well and then have a rude awakening trying to get you feet back on the ground. My 2 cents.
There is no requirement to be a commander to attend UCC.
Quote from: EMT-83 on April 14, 2012, 02:20:56 AM
There is no requirement to be a commander to attend UCC.
Not nationally, but many wings require it.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:40:30 PM
You can't learn to be a commander online. You can learn the technical administrative stuff, but not command bearing and attitude.
I am not a fan of doing professional development like this, it's basically just checking the box and misses the point, which is the interaction
between peers.
While I think that SLS/CLC can be offered online for those whose real-life responsibilities/schedules restrict them from attending a week-end school...courses like UCC are definitely one of those events where attendance/participation is required. I concur with Eclipse's astute observation that interaction between peers..especially at this level of training and above is essential. It is not about the material that is being presented but also the mentoring provided.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:40:30 PM
You can't learn to be a commander online. You can learn the technical administrative stuff, but not command bearing and attitude.
I am not a fan of doing professional development like this, it's basically just checking the box and misses the point, which is the interaction
between peers.
What if you are presented with the situation where you are assigned to the position of Squadron Commander...on the job training? Would not a UCC online couse be beneficial with the actual command as a sort of lab?
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 07:26:10 PM
Quote from: jjmalott on April 10, 2012, 07:25:02 PMYou learn to command by commanding.
It's too late to start learning once you've got the badge.
You learn to be a good commander by first being a good follower and paying attention to the right mentors.
I say this, as a corollary to the thread on Term Limits, that if we are going to have people rotating into and out of the position of Unit Command because of arbitrary term limits, would it not be that some people would be placed in command way before they were ready. As was done to me my first time in squadron command around 2001?
I have had command three times...1) in 2001 when I was given the choice that the unit would fold if I did not take command meaning that I would have to shoulder the responsibility of having killed a major unit with a proud history (man...my then Group Commander knew just where to "hit where it would" hurt a person like me) 2) In 2006 after a 2 year break from CAP after having failed the first time, where I learned a great deal while building that unit, which had degenerated to three active members. and 3) When we charted a new Unit in a neighboring city.
That first time was a disaster...I had no idea what I was doing and the only guidance I got when asked was "its all in the regs." Incidentally, that is why I take issues with people who use that as a generic answer to newbie's questions here.
Has there been such a course at that time that was on line, I would have greatly benefited.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 14, 2012, 02:43:42 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on April 14, 2012, 02:20:56 AM
There is no requirement to be a commander to attend UCC.
Not nationally, but many wings require it.
Roger that. Only limited number of seats and we all know the new guy who wants to take every class available.
Quote from: Dad2-4 on April 13, 2012, 11:05:15 PM
It took a long time for me to have the opportunity to do SLS, and when I did it was a 3 hour drive away.
I am not sure what Wing you are in. But the Wing should make SLS/CLC/UCC available to all members. In your Unit you have ten senior members who need SLS why not have it at your meeting place and three Wing Staff members fly in for the weekend and get it done?
The quality of Wings vary greatly but I would have to be the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. >:D
Nice concept, but it usually fails in execution. SLS and CLC specifically require 12 contact hours, making them impractical for one day events.
NHQ will fund one SLS and one CLC per year, per wing. Anything beyond that requires other funding. In my wing, the funding apparently goes to the first class scheduled in a fiscal year. Given the size of the state, it is impractical for many members to attend, because of time and funding issues.
That is why I said, "fly in for the weekend". NHQ has a budget but your Wing, CAWG sometimes has as many as four (4) SLS in a year.
In large states like Montana they should have one on the east end, next year the center, the following year west. Then back to the middle and then repeat the process. That is how I would manage it.
NHQ funding dried up long ago, but funding is not an issue. These courses are easily self-funding; it just takes someone taking the bull by the horns and getting it done.
Quote from: EMT-83 on April 14, 2012, 10:41:20 PM
NHQ funding dried up long ago, but funding is not an issue. These courses are easily self-funding; it just takes someone taking the bull by the horns and getting it done.
I agree....these can be done somewhat locally if a group of CAP Officers needs it. It just requires a bit of legwork.
Sorry SarDragon, your brown shoes are showing!
NHQ hasn't funded a SLS and CLC each year in each wing for a very long time. Certainly not since 2005, when I became CAWG Director of Professional Development. Several years before that, I inquired of my predecessors and at least two of them had never received any monies from NHQ. The statement about funding was dropped from the CAPR 50-17 two or three revisions ago.
Back when the courses were supposedly funded, NHQ would ship curriculum material to the course director. Now, course directors must download and locally print the curriculum material.
Brown shoes? I was an Airdale in the Canoe Club, but never progressed far enough to wear that color of shoes.
As for funding, I only skimmed that part of the 50-17 when going through it, since my recent involvement has been minimal.
I did look up when the provision went away - as recently as September '09.
Here's the specific text:
Quotec. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of SLS. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When
NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report
(Attachment 6), from the SLS course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
Kind of vague, if you ask me. But, water under the bridge, now.
This is a couple of years old, but still valid:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10170.msg185249#msg185249 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10170.msg185249#msg185249)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/DayCommander.jpg)
This CAP COMIC I MADE A FEW YEARS AGO SAYS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW about SQUADRON COMMAND.