Hi everyone,
So I've been thinking about joining CAP for some time now and having decided to go to grad school near a squadron, I figured it's the perfect time to learn more.
As is probably obvious from the title I was never a cadet. In fact I only heard about CAP when a buddy of mine mentioned it a few months ago. Since then, from what I've read about it, CAP seems like a fantastic and worthwhile volunteer experience.
I'm curious though about two things: what senior members do and what it's like for a senior member who joins without having been a cadet (I've read a few answers to those questions scattered about the forum but sometimes they're specific to a certain specialty).
I ask the first question because the only squadron near where I'll be next year is a senior one and I'm curious what they spend their time doing when not responding to emergencies or such high-visibility things. As for the second question, I don't want to join only to realize that I have no idea what's going on because I'm expected to be familiar with CAP. How might someone like me be able to contribute? Here's my background if it helps: no flying experience, EMT certified, a good deal of administrative experience.
Thanks in advance for any replies and comments :D
I would imagine that the vast majority of senior members in CAP are not previous cadets, so you won't find yourself alone in that regard. Nor does the status of having been a former cadet bestow any particular status as a senior member (I should know). So no worries.
As for the job you might end up doing, that depends entirely on the squadron you end up joining. The mission focus and job availabilities differ from squadron to squadron, wing to wing, and so forth. Your best bet of getting those kinds of questions answered is to talk with the point-of-contact for the squadron itself.
But I can say that CAP never seems to have enough people that actually know what they're doing when they push paper, so I don't imagine you're going to have to fight for a job.
You're situation and mine are very similar.
I joined a few years ago, in my early 20's, while a full time college student, not a pilot, also having never been a cadet. One difference is that I joined a composite squadron, though it was very segmented, so in many ways might as well have been a senior squadron experience.
A few points I would like to make:
1. You are going to grad school, so I assume you are young-ish, probably mid 20's or under. If that's the case, you have to realize that you will likely be the youngest guy in the squadron, likely by quite a bit.
2. The average age of a senior member in my wing is 60.
3. Old people are kinda cool, they have good stories. I enjoy sitting around the table and talking to them. They have a lot of experiences, both in CAP, flying, and life in general, and are usually pretty willing to share them, especially with young bucks like us.
4. Most senior members have not been cadets previously. It's a very small percent that have, and a lot that have, were out for 30 years or more and rejoined when they retired. You're new, and won't be expected to know things you have no way of knowing. If it's a good squadron, they'll teach you.
5. A senior squadron may not be the best representative of CAP... Many of them tend to be "flying clubs" where old pilots go for a few hours a month to get away from their wives, shoot the breeze, and get absolutely nothing accomplished. I am sure there are senior squadrons out there that have it together, however, I've been to 4 of them, and all but one of them were jokes.
As for what we do at ordinary meetings, usually it involves paperwork and administrative stuff, safety briefings, training, guest speakers, etc. For many senior squadrons, it involves grilling food, drinking beer and smoking cigars. Hey, that doesn't sound so bad after all.... ::)
The cadet program and the senior program are different things. Being a cadet doesn't really prepare you for being a senior member any more or less than any other kids' program does (Boy Scouts, YMCA, Sea Cadets, JROTC, student government, whatever). The cadet program is another program.
On being a Senior Member - what I do is varied and falls in line with what I can do...attend meetings regularly, train, practice and complete qualifications. I'll be doing some teaching starting this summer. In almost three years, I have not been called to be in an actual live mission yet because it hasn't been needed - that is a good thing.
Go ahead and join and just feel it out for a few months. If you don't like it, the cost was minimal.
Keep an open mind and realize that your squadron is probably very different than this BBS is...
Quote from: bflynn on April 10, 2012, 05:38:47 PM
The cadet program and the senior program are different things. Being a cadet doesn't really prepare you for being a senior member any more or less than any other kids' program does (Boy Scouts, YMCA, Sea Cadets, JROTC, student government, whatever). The cadet program is another program.
100% incorrect.
And the cadet program is not a "kid's program"...
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
Quote from: bflynn on April 10, 2012, 05:38:47 PM
The cadet program and the senior program are different things. Being a cadet doesn't really prepare you for being a senior member any more or less than any other kids' program does (Boy Scouts, YMCA, Sea Cadets, JROTC, student government, whatever). The cadet program is another program.
100% incorrect.
And the cadet program is not a "kid's program"...
Yeah, I was going to say something, as a senior member who completed that "kid's program" and got promoted to Captain automatically due to my progress there despite apparently not being in any way prepared for being a senior...
Quote from: esl550 on April 10, 2012, 04:29:00 PM
...I've read a few answers to those questions scattered about the forum...
Please realize that any resemblance between CAP and the forum is purely coincidental!! ;D
Like others have said, I doubt you will be terribly disadvantaged by not having been a cadet. My cadet experience was limited to one year back in the era of disco (Google it if you have never heard of disco).
Also, don't let the resemblance between Civil Air Patrol and the Silver Hair Patrol discourage you. We do need senior members from all age groups and I think you could contribute greatly if you find a unit that fits you.
Good luck.
You say the senior squadron is your only option, but I'd suggest exploring that more. You will not get the full
depth of experience in a senior squadron, and will be missing out on a lot.
It's one thing to connect with one after you understand all that is available in CAP, but starting there may not provide all
the information and connections you should have, they tend to be very internalized.
Quote from: esl550 on April 10, 2012, 04:29:00 PM
Here's my background if it helps: no flying experience, EMT certified, a good deal of administrative experience.
Thanks in advance for any replies and comments :D
Are you interested in aviation? Being part of an aircrew? Using your EMT experience to teach first aid? Using your adminsitrative experience to help? Most senior squadrons could use help with all the above and, would love to have "new blood"; especially working on paperwork.
Quote from: FW on April 10, 2012, 06:18:59 PMUsing your EMT experience to teach first aid?
I agree with the rest you said, but let's not set that expectation from day one when we know it is not correct.
As an EMT, his
responder mentality and professionalism will be an asset to CAP, but the medical skills are only peripherally (tangentially?)of value to CAP.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
And the cadet program is not a "kid's program"...
Semantics. It's a program. The members are all kids. I, as an adult, cannot be a cadet. Ergo, it is a kid's program. Like Sea Cadets, like JROTC, like Boy Scouts. Other than the parent organization, how is it different?
Getting an automatic promotion to a rank does not mean someone is prepared for life more than another program - my
opinion.
You really need to soften your corrective approach. You come across far more strict and harsh than I think you realize and it impairs your effectiveness as a leader.
I was a 20 year old cadet. Even legally, I wasn't a "kid" anymore.
And I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the automatic rank promotion. It has nothing to do with being more prepared about "life." It has to do with being prepared enough to hold the responsibilities of a Captain in CAP. Meaning that someone high up in CAP disagrees with your assertion that the cadet program doesn't prepare one to be a CAP senior member.
Quote from: bflynn on April 10, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
And the cadet program is not a "kid's program"...
Semantics. It's a program. The members are all kids. I, as an adult, cannot be a cadet. Ergo, it is a kid's program.
So CP officers and 18+ cadets are kids then by this statement?
Quote from: bflynn on April 10, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 10, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
And the cadet program is not a "kid's program"...
Semantics. It's a program. The members are all kids. I, as an adult, cannot be a cadet. Ergo, it is a kid's program. Like Sea Cadets, like JROTC, like Boy Scouts. Other than the parent organization, how is it different?
Cadets are adolescents, not "kids", there's a difference, and the expectation for our cadets is well ahead of their peers. You are also comparing programs here, and moreso in your previous response, which are nothing like CAP, not to mention the fact that on a number of occasions you have indicated you have no experience with cadets and limited experience in the senior program, yet you continue to make comments which have no basis in fact or experience, then get defensive when people call you on it and pretend it's all about "the bigger picture" or "attitude".
Then I modify my earlier comment to call it an adolescent's program. You're hung up on the semantics for some odd reason and you're focused on the least important part of what I was trying to say. At a certain point, anyone below the age of 21 is a kid...at another point, anyone below the age of 40 is still a kid.
As far as being a senior member without having been a cadet, you are not disadvantaged. Your life experiences are valueable no matter where you come from and you have something to offer no matter what your background is.
For the Original Poster - welcome, realize it would be a mistake to judge CAP by a few on this BBS.
Your comments have nothing to do with semantics - you used them for a very specific reason and to make a negative point about
the cadet part of CAP - a part which makes up 50%(ish) of out membership and involves 2/3rd's or more of our mission.
Yo also stated things which are untrue regarding a cadet's experience not preparing them to be better senior members. That experience
is certainly not required, but effective cadets tend to be effective seniors, and the program recognizes that fact by conferring
advanced grade and professional development credit for work done as a cadet.
The you compared CAP to other organizations which aren't even paramilitary in nature with the same negative connotation.
This also isn't a BBS.
Semantics aside, CAP units would gladly welcome a new, young senior member even if he or she had not been a former cadet. In addition to finding ways to help out, CAP can also be a way for you to build your own skills in areas you might be interested in. Interested in marketing and PR? You could volunteer to work with your unit's Public Affairs or Recruiting Officer to learn and build skills in those areas. Interested in radios and technology? Inquire about duty assignments to assist your squadron's Communications Officer or Information Technology (IT) Officer. Interested in Emergency Management? You could get duty assignments assisting your squadron's ES staff (Emergency Services Officer, Disaster Relief Officer, and SAR Officer). Interested in industrial safety? Look into working with your squadron's Safety Officer.
The Senior Member Great Start Guide (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Great_Start_Guide__lores__cropped_E4FAFED36450E.pdf) would be the perfect place to learn about the different specialty tracks and duty assignments available in CAP. Keep in mind that if the squadron closest to you is a "Senior Squadron" (as opposed to the other two types: Composite or Cadet Squadrons), any duty assignment related to Cadet Programs (Leadership Officer, Activities Officer, etc.) will not be available there. http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Great_Start_Guide__lores__cropped_E4FAFED36450E.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Great_Start_Guide__lores__cropped_E4FAFED36450E.pdf)
You can also train up in various emergency services/operational qualification, as an aircrew member (scanner, observer), in mission support (communications, MIO, admin/logistics, etc.) and ground team (Urban Direction Finding teams, Ground Team Member qualifications, and beyond). Those can be worked on separately from your duty assignment to the squadron. So you could be working on your aircrew member qualifications while also serving as the unit Finance Officer or Assistant Communications or something else.
You asked about weekly meetings. They should be a combination of training, satisfying requirements (safety briefings), announcements of upcoming training activities and things going on at nearby units and higher headquarters, and a chance to work on projects for your section.
I say you should go for it. I joined without having any cadet experience and have found it to be a great experience. When I first joined, I told the squadron commander that since I was on the ground in the Corps, I wanted to be aircrew and I wanted nothing to do with the cadets in our composite squadron. What does he do? Appoints me as Leadership Officer and preps me for ground team! In all reality it was very funny and I thoroughly enjoyed my time working with the cadets, in fact, it was probably my most rewarding time in CAP. I have moved on, finally got my MS qual after nearly three years (made the mistake of moving up too quickly on the ground side!) and now work as ES officer. There is a lot of opportunity for just about anybody to find a good fit in any type of squadron. Bring a can do attitude and a willingness to learn and you will do great. Please keep in mind that you shouldn't limit yourself to squadron only activities. Most wings/ groups offer opportunities to train and work with others in your area. I highly suggest that you take advantage of them when/ if possible. Good luck!
One more thing I will add about the age, is that being young can be a good thing for you. It sure has been for me. CAP needs fresh blood, the younger, energetic type to get stuff done. You might be more likely to be called for a mission because they know you physically could do it. You might be given more opportunities to take on projects or assignments. For me personally, as a marketing major, I was given the opportunity to be my squadrons public affairs officer. I did well, and in a short amount of time was made the group (higher headquarters) PAO managing the public affairs and marketing efforts of 11 squadrons. I then did well at that and was made the wing (even higher than group, covering the entire state) director of marketing and public affairs. I now have on my resume that I manage the marketing and public affairs of a non-profit organization with 95 subordinate units and over 4,300 members. I can also list the numerous awards I have received including public affairs officer of the year (of over 200,) emergency management experience, leadership experience, and numerous other line items that are extremely desirable to potential employers. And I have done all of this in less than 2 years. I graduate in August with a BBA in marketing and honestly if it wasn't for CAP, my resume wouldn't be impressive at all. It will definitely give me an edge over the competition. Not to mention, I have made many good contacts that could lead to a job.
There is a saying that "you get out of CAP what you put into it." This is very true. I hit hit the ground running and have been very active, and it has, and continues to pay off for me personally and professionally.
Quote from: Woodsy on April 10, 2012, 08:03:27 PMThere is a saying that "you get out of CAP what you put into it." This is very true. I hit hit the ground running and have been very active, and it has, and continues to pay off for me personally and professionally.
x 10
CAP can be a very valuable asset to members no matter if they were a cadet or not. And don't let the way that these threads go discourage you either, they always run off on a tangent because of something somebody says rubs someone the wrong way.
I am about done with EMTB class and will take my NREMT tests in a month, and I can already see a great deal that my training can be of an asset for ground search operations. I would suggest you look into the same, you don't have to do it, but just look into it. CAP has requirements for ground team members to have first aid training and CPR training and it is always had to get instructors for it if you don't have one already in the squadron. I am saying that because as an EMT it is a short stones throw to be an instructor for CPR and FA.
There are a multitude of things you can do for CAP, and a multitude that CAP can do for you. Look into it and give it a run through. I bet you will enjoy it.
Thanks to everyone for the valuable input, it's always good to hear about an organization from those involved. Glad to know that my age/lack of CAP experience won't be an issue. The former was probably one of my bigger concerns.
Anyway I'll be emailing the commander of the senior squadron and finding out more about what they do specifically. Definitely excited to learn more.
Also to the poster who mentioned looking at other squadrons: I would but the closest composite squadron is about an hour and a half away and the cadet squadrons are the same if not further. So I hope the senior one works out! :P
Quote from: esl550 on April 10, 2012, 08:54:09 PMAlso to the poster who mentioned looking at other squadrons: I would but the closest composite squadron is about an hour and a half away and the cadet squadrons are the same if not further. So I hope the senior one works out! :P
You know, if you're really worried about it, you should just volunteer yourself to create a cadet program at the senior squadron and convert the whole shabang to a composite squadron...
Quote from: Nathan on April 10, 2012, 08:55:57 PMYou know, if you're really worried about it, you should just volunteer yourself to create a cadet program at the senior squadron and convert the whole shabang to a composite squadron...
How about we let the guy join and get his feet wet before we expect him to save the world ;D
Don't worry, I knew what you meant.
I hadn't heard of CAP when I was of cadet age. I wish I would have, because I probably would have eaten it up, but for whatever reason, I didn't.
As an EMT you already have the mindset of saving lives and alleviating suffering. CAP can always do with that.
And I would also say not to let what is often said on CT by various members (me included!) put you off the organisation as a whole.
Like the OP, I joined CAP with no aviation experience and was not a former cadet. I had a similar background as an EMT and administrative experience, especially with non-profits.
My CAP career started with squadron admin and professional development, onto deputy commander and then to wing staff. Along the way, I managed to complete MS, MO, GTL and GBD, thanks to some talented and motivated ES folks.
You really can make a difference, if you're willing to put in the time. Go for it!
Quote from: Nathan on April 10, 2012, 08:55:57 PMYou know, if you're really worried about it, you should just volunteer yourself to create a cadet program at the senior squadron and convert the whole shabang to a composite squadron...
That does not make sense. The OP was never a Cadet, a Senior Squadron is present, how can you make a Composite Squadron when apprently their is ZERO INTEREST in the Cadet side? ::)
Quote from: Private Investigator on April 12, 2012, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan on April 10, 2012, 08:55:57 PMYou know, if you're really worried about it, you should just volunteer yourself to create a cadet program at the senior squadron and convert the whole shabang to a composite squadron...
That does not make sense. The OP was never a Cadet, a Senior Squadron is present, how can you make a Composite Squadron when apprently their is ZERO INTEREST in the Cadet side? ::)
It was in response to his apparent interest in the cadet programs, as he had mentioned he had looked at composite and cadet squadrons in his area. I had the sentence quoted.
For a private investigator... well, I won't go there. :)
Quote from: Nathan on April 12, 2012, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on April 12, 2012, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan on April 10, 2012, 08:55:57 PMYou know, if you're really worried about it, you should just volunteer yourself to create a cadet program at the senior squadron and convert the whole shabang to a composite squadron...
That does not make sense. The OP was never a Cadet, a Senior Squadron is present, how can you make a Composite Squadron when apprently their is ZERO INTEREST in the Cadet side? ::)
It was in response to his apparent interest in the cadet programs, as he had mentioned he had looked at composite and cadet squadrons in his area. I had the sentence quoted.
For a private investigator... well, I won't go there. :)
nathan you took it out of context. He was wondering if he could participate in CAP with no background in CAP as a Cadet. Saavy? Now the next point, well, I won't go there either ... >:D