How can I find another CAP member's contact details? Not just members in the home unit. Anyone in the Wing.
It is beyond me how member search is not on the front page of eServices. If CAP has an emergency, the first thing one has to do is contact people.
The search by last and optionally full name should result in the person's phone numbers, email address and unit number / location. There should also be the capability to list all members in a unit and their contact details. Basic stuff.
I can't tell you how much time I have spent trying to get hold of members across our Wing for missions. Very frustrating this morning when I need to reach people.
Is this capability buried somewhere? I know certain members have access, but I have spoken with other members and it seems that the way people end up contacting others is one at a time by finding someone else who knows them. Very inefficient.
If you have a need for this info, specifically related to an assigned CAP duty, then you should contact your unit commander for the appropriate permissions.
This is personal information that doesn't need to be available to the general membership. I certainly don't want all of my contact info out there at random.
If you look in the LH column of eServices, there is a Member Search link. If you put in most of the last name, and hit Tab, you can retrieve the name, grade, CAPID, and unit of almost anyone in CAP. If the name is absolutely unique, the search will fail, because of the way the engine is configured. E.g. - if you type in Courter, the search will fail, since there is only one Courter in CAP, and that member is likely not in tour unit. If you use Courte, you get three names to choose from, and have the above info available.
Also, for wing-wide search you would need permissions set at the wing level. Usually you would need to have a wing position for this.
Facebook
See if you have rights to do it in WMIRS...because such things are usually mission related, WMIRS has a search.
Under Tools and Utilities on the left, select "Member Contact Lookup"
It'll give you phone, e-mail and ES Quals for the member.
Not sure what "rights" you need in WMIRS to see it.
Quote from: simon on March 17, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
How can I find another CAP member's contact details? Not just members in the home unit. Anyone in the Wing.
It is beyond me how member search is not on the front page of eServices. If CAP has an emergency, the first thing one has to do is contact people.
I can't tell you how much time I have spent trying to get hold of members across our Wing for missions. Very frustrating this morning when I need to reach people.
My wing has a email message system that allows anyone signed into the wing website to send a message to everyone. Every adult/senior member has an email address at wing. Personnel can also sign into the wing website and check their mail or have it automatically forwarded to another address (and also have the option to retain a copy on the website). It is used on a regular basis to notify personnel of actual short notice missions as well as reminders on upcoming training etc. In addition the Wing Section involved with ES (Air OPs, Ground Ops, Communications) have contact telephone numbers/email address for all key personnel in each squadron. (The radio station call sign roster has callsign, names, & contact telephone numbers).
Furthermore, in the past on the radio communications side, we've been put on alert standby (e.g. severe weather approaching) with net check ins times based upon the instruction in the alert message, so there's also connectivity if the land/cell phone system goes down. When the new CAPR 100-1 gets approved there's some other creative one way communications methods that can be employed without risking violating the regulation.
I think it would be a good idea for National to also have a system available to notify personnel in wings, groups, squadrons, just in case the wing system is not operational or has issues. I think our wing uses a google provided service for this email & website.
Not sure at what level you volunteer at in CAP, but you should have been able to contact someone in your wing to assist you. Generally wings have Alert Officers assigned and you should have had those telephone numbers.
RM
Thanks for the feedback.
QuoteIf the name is absolutely unique, the search will fail
You are right. If the name is unique, the search fails. As someone who wrote search engine software for a living, this search engine completely sucks. Sorry for the language, but there is just no better way to describe it. It is the number one basic requirement of a search engine. Wow. Enlightening.
QuoteI certainly don't want all of my contact info out there at random.
Not even the most basic way for a member to contact you eh? Interesting.
Quote"Facebook"
Ironic. 'No' to a member only system where you can't contact another member, but 'yes' to company that derives its revenue from selling your personal information.
QuoteUnder Tools and Utilities on the left, select "Member Contact Lookup"
Nope. Can't see it. Guess a mission pilot doesn't get the phone numbers of potential crew.
I can see OPS-ES Quals lookup, where I can find people with certain qualifications within a radius from an airport. Useful. Unfortunately, it doesn't give me their phone or email. I found it amusing that the search allowed me to filter on age. I guess that isn't as personal... ;-)
Quoteyou should have been able to contact someone in your wing to assist you
There is a list of people at Wing level to contact. I just wanted to call someone in the squadron adjacent to ours to see if they wanted to participate in a mission. It's a pain that I have to call other Squadron members to get a number. Woe betide a search mission coming up an observer/scanner needed to be called.
Quote from: simon on March 18, 2012, 06:29:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
Quoteyou should have been able to contact someone in your wing to assist you
There is a list of people at Wing level to contact. I just wanted to call someone in the squadron adjacent to ours to see if they wanted to participate in a mission. It's a pain that I have to call other Squadron members to get a number. Woe betide a search mission coming up an observer/scanner needed to be called.
If you are not the IC that isn't your problem (crew staffing) to resolve. The easiest way is to call that unit commander and let him/her help you. Also with some pre coordination perhaps that would be delegated to the unit's ES Officer or Ops Officer. Doesn't seem like this is a big deal.
RM
Quote from: simon on March 18, 2012, 06:29:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
QuoteIf the name is absolutely unique, the search will fail
You are right. If the name is unique, the search fails. As someone who wrote search engine software for a living, this search engine completely sucks. Sorry for the language, but there is just no better way to describe it. It is the number one basic requirement of a search engine. Wow. Enlightening.
It isn't that it fails to find the person. It just doesn't display a unique result if you don't have appropriate level of permissions and/or scope to view the record.
By the way, there is a way to access email addresses as well as other member information using the Operations Qualifications module. Once you look the person up in OpsQuals, click on the second icon next to their name. It wont give phone number info though.
You can search & retrieve contact info for everyone in CAP using the Member Contact feature of the WMU.
It's one of the very few things I still use that system for.
Quote from: simon on March 18, 2012, 06:29:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
Quote from: SarDragonIf the name is absolutely unique, the search will fail
You are right. If the name is unique, the search fails. As someone who wrote search engine software for a living, this search engine completely sucks. Sorry for the language, but there is just no better way to describe it. It is the number one basic requirement of a search engine. Wow. Enlightening.
Like I said, if you have a specific need for the desired information, your unit commander or WSA can give you the necessary permissions. If I need to know someone's contact info, I know how to get it within the rules.
Quote from: simonQuote from: SarDragonI certainly don't want all of my contact info out there at random.
Not even the most basic way for a member to contact you eh? Interesting.
The people that might need to contact me have the capability to do so.
Let me ask you something - what job or position do you have that requires you to contact members, either in or outside of your unit?
As an aside, how about including the names of the people you are quoting, so we might more easily keep track of the players.
Quote from: SarDragonIt isn't that it fails to find the person. It just doesn't display a unique result if you don't have appropriate level of permissions and/or scope to view the record.
That might be the behavior, but from a search design perspective it is just wrong. Ask anyone who has worked on a search engine. Either a user has permissions to see the result or they don't. Whether it appears in a list or not is irrelevant.
For example, if you search for "Stuart", you get 6 pages of results, two which are "Stuart Cauthron" and "Stuart Brownstein". If you search for "Brownstein", you get "Stuart Brownstein" and "Kevin Brownstein". If you search for "Cauthron", you get nothing. That is inconsistent behavior.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015If you are not the IC that isn't your problem (crew staffing) to resolve.
Actually, no, as an MP, it IS my problem. At least in CA, so I can only speak for that Wing. The following is an example of the full text we can expect to receive from the wing wide broadcast email list requesting resources: "UDF A/C needed for 121.5 ELT being heard Palmdale/Edwards area. ELTMM <IC> <phone> (2332L)."
The IC expects a crew member to call them with the names and ID's of the full crew plus the aircraft tail number. The IC doesn't want to futz around calling individual people. Usually it is the mission pilot responding to the IC, who has already called the MO and Scanner to make sure they can come along. That's the reality, even if it's not supposed to work that way. Often the IC just calls an MP they know can be relied on to fly and the MP calls their trusty crew. That would explain why so many missions get flown in CA and the only way a lot of people find out about it is after the mission is closed - the IC never sends out the broadcast email in the first place. It also explains why the majority of missions are flown by a small group of pilots, which is unfortunate. Again, I can only speak for my experience in CA. Other states may run things completely differently. But when I had to contact all the qualified CD people from our group, it was a nuisance because I couldn't get their phone numbers or email addresses easily.
Quote from: SarDragonwhat job or position do you have that requires you to contact members, either in or outside of your unit?
CA mountain flying clinic coordinator. Group CD officer. Mission Pilot/Observer/Scanner. In my view, all valid reasons for wanting to get hold of qualified people.
It is worth mentioning that I did get some additional group access after requesting it for the group CD, but
Quote from: Ed BosYou can search & retrieve contact info for everyone in CAP using the Member Contact feature of the WMU.
I don't have permission to WMU.
Quote from: ß τ εthere is a way to access email addresses as well as other member information using the Operations Qualifications module. Once you look the person up in OpsQuals, click on the second icon next to their name
Can you be more specific on the steps to get to this. I seem to be missing something. Just being able to have the email address would be a great start.
Clearly there a bit of an art to finding info as it is buried in a few places. It is just frustrating when you need to round up a bunch of names and contact info for an activity.
Quote from: simon on March 19, 2012, 01:48:36 AM
Quote from: ß τ εthere is a way to access email addresses as well as other member information using the Operations Qualifications module. Once you look the person up in OpsQuals, click on the second icon next to their name
Can you be more specific on the steps to get to this. I seem to be missing something. Just being able to have the email address would be a great start.
Clearly there a bit of an art to finding info as it is buried in a few places. It is just frustrating when you need to round up a bunch of names and contact info for an activity.
In eServices, select Operations Qualifications.
Choose 101 Card, or any other ES or Pilot selection.
Search for the member.
Once it finds the member, it displays the name at the top. Next to the name are two icons. One is sort of a back arrow which lets you search for another member. The second is the Member Information icon. Click on it and you should get quite a bit of info, including email address.
Quote from: simon on March 19, 2012, 01:48:36 AM
Quote from: SarDragonIt isn't that it fails to find the person. It just doesn't display a unique result if you don't have appropriate level of permissions and/or scope to view the record.
That might be the behavior, but from a search design perspective it is just wrong. Ask anyone who has worked on a search engine. Either a user has permissions to see the result or they don't. Whether it appears in a list or not is irrelevant.
For example, if you search for "Stuart", you get 6 pages of results, two which are "Stuart Cauthron" and "Stuart Brownstein". If you search for "Brownstein", you get "Stuart Brownstein" and "Kevin Brownstein". If you search for "Cauthron", you get nothing. That is inconsistent behavior.
It behaves exactly as I described it. Cauthron is unique, as are Cauthro and Cauthr. Cauth is not, yielding members from MD and AK. If the unique name is within your permissions, you get to see their info. If not, you get this message: A person with this CAPID or name does not exist, or you do not have access to them. This is the same message you get when you click on any other name not within your permissions. This is, apparently the way NHQ wants it to work.
As for CAWG, I live there, too. I'm very familiar with the system, and have worked within it for over ten years, warts and all. I see pages almost every day. As for favoritism, I guess it depends on your perspective. The aircrews that respond first, or are closest to the area of interest, usually get to fly first.
ß τ ε's method worked for me, and I have no restricted permissions.
WMU - ask the right person for access (I'm not sure who that would be; I've had access since inception.), and you can get right in.
It appears that you are trying to circumvent the procedures for getting the info you think you need. Jump through a few simple hoops, designed around 'need-to-know', and you'll have what you need.
ß τ ε, the method you described for finding an email address is also working for me. Thanks for that.
SarDragon, as for WMU, I will ask my CO for access, see how that goes and let you know. I am guessing I will get a "Why do you need to know?" But maybe not.
Quote"The aircrews that respond first, or are closest to the area of interest, usually get to fly first."
HA! Oh God, I nearly fell off my chair. I have called within 10 seconds of receiving a notification, to find the aircrews already filled. Half the time the only way I find out about a mission is a couple of days later when it has been closed. I agree it is aircrews closest to the area of interest, but I don't agree about first responders. Last year I suggested implementing a system that paged qualified crews, location based etc. Would have been nifty and minimized work on the IC's behalf. It didn't even get off the starting block. We couldn't possibly have a system in place that selected aircrews based upon their ability to be at a base the fastest. Oh no, that would be too democratic. Or a system that gave all qualified aircrews the chance to participate in a real mission, as opposed to "friends of the IC". That's what I'm talking about here. Crew selection, at least in NorCal, seems to be rarely based upon a notification going out and the IC selecting the crew that can be on deck first. Last year, 54% of all the aircraft hours flown in California were training related (Proficiency, SAREX and O-Rides). 24% were CD. Only about 5% of the hours were spent on actual ELT/SAR missions. An interesting statistic would be the number of aircrew that made up the bulk of that 5%. CAP planes are flying thousands of hours in training each year but the pilots never get to go on missions because they never get the chance. (I may just go and look up that statistic...)
As for "trying to circumvent procedures", I didn't think trying to get hold of someone outside my unit was such a big deal. I need to follow a "procedure" to call someone? I thought we were all adults.
And on the search behavior, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I understand the way the member search works, but the way the the permissions affect the results is just weird. Try to explain to a user why when they search for "Stuart" that they get the result ""Stuart Cauthron" but when they search for "Stuart Cauthron" they get nothing. To me, they should either see the result in both cases or not at all. That would be consistent.
If you know how I can find the tech guy who is close to member search, I'd be happy to try and help. But I'd have to ask someone for permission to get his phone number, right?
Quote from: simon on March 19, 2012, 06:50:21 AMAnd on the search behavior, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I understand the way the member search works, but the way the the permissions affect the results is just weird. Try to explain to a user why when they search for "Stuart" that they get the result ""Stuart Cauthron" but when they search for "Stuart Cauthron" they get nothing. To me, they should either see the result in both cases or not at all. That would be consistent.
OK, gave this another thought. How does this sound?
The engine rejects any request on a member not within the scope of your permissions. That covers the unique names, because the rejection is immediate. If the search string is non-unique, the engine offers you a choice among the matches, said matches being on any matching character string within an entire name. (E.g., searching for David will include me in the results.) The engine then evaluates your choice, and rejects or accepts as above. IMHO, it seems more efficient that way, since it doesn't have to evaluate the unique names twice.
I think that's the best I can do. I averaged a D (F->C) in databases during my CS program.
Users never read the help.
Or use the search on forums ;)
Touché, even if it reaffirms my point. :P